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The Interview with Dr. Kellogg

Nov 15, 2011
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"In the apostasy, man alianated himself from God;
earth was cut off from Heaven. Across the gulf
that lay between, there could be no communion.
But through Christ, earth is again linked with
Heaven. With His own MERITS, Christ has
bridged the gulf which sin had made, so that
the ministering angels can hold communion with
man. Christ connects fallen man in his weakness
and helplessness with the Source of infinite
power
." Steps to Christ, 20.

The above is not the Gospel?

Mrs. White did not know the Gospel?
 
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Originally Posted by rainbowinthesky
"The merits of Christ's sacrifice are sufficient to present to the Father in our behalf." Steps to Christ, 36.

"The merits of a crucified and risen Saviour are the foundation of the Christian's faith." The Great Controversy, 73.

"Looking unto Jesus and trusting in His merits we appropriate the blessings of light and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit." Testimonies, vol.5,744.

So are you saying that this is not the Gospel?
______________

Yes; thats what I am saying.

castaway

 
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"We shall come in repentance and contrition with a despairing sense of our own finite weakness and learn that we must DAILY APPLY to the MERITS of the BLOOD of Christ that we may become vessels fit for the Master's use." Faith & Works,86.

And the above is not the Gospel?

It is also a lie?
 
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Castaway57

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Originally Posted by rainbowinthesky
"The merits of Christ's sacrifice are sufficient to present to the Father in our behalf." Steps to Christ, 36.

"The merits of a crucified and risen Saviour are the foundation of the Christian's faith." The Great Controversy, 73.

"Looking unto Jesus and trusting in His merits we appropriate the blessings of light and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit." Testimonies, vol.5,744.

So are you saying that this is not the Gospel?
______________

Yes; thats what I am saying.

castaway

Again; you even quoted me out of context by quoting a small snippet of what I said in reply when I said "no. That is not the gospel." It is not the gospel, unless it is quoted in context, and in accordance with the original intent and meaning of the author; and it is NOT gospel, unless it is scripture. Mrs White points us to scripture. And even when scripture is presented, it must be done correctly, as we see in Mat 4 where Satan quoted scripture. When are you going to address the points I made in posts 221 & 225? Or can you?
 
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Castaway57

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"You want to be like little children, hanging
upon the MERITS of a crucified and risen
Saviour. Then you will be fortified
."
E.G. White, Ms 9, 1891.

This is not the Gospel?
No. It's not. Unfortunately you are choosing to be reactive here rather than responsive and studying in depth from scripture the answers to the questions being asked of you here:

1/ You consistently use her writings in such a way as to try to critisize the very church she loved and supported throughout her ministry, and in all her writings

2/ You do not, in fact, dwell on this "merits of Christ" business as you say you do. That is nothing but a smoke screen. Your real purpose here is quite evident, and it seems you will stop at nothing to "show" how "wrong" the Adventist Church is. Forum participants can go to any topic you have started here and see for themselves how you mix in about 5% Jesus talk, with 95% criticism and accusing talk so don't tell us what you dwell on because we can see for ourselves.

3/ Even though you have been told many times that the church's official teaching tells us not to use Mrs White's writings as "Bible," or to establish doctrine; you continue to do just that, showing a very willful and determined disregard for our official teachings. Using so many short/partial phrases from her writings accomplished just what the devil did in Mat 4 and actually does not relate the correct gospel to anyone. It leaves out important things that we should be getting from scripture.

The devil used partial quotes of scripture there to try to give "scriptural" support for what he was actually saying, and this is the lesson people can learn here too with how you use Mrs White's writings. A little bit of truth mixed with a lot of blatant error is an excellent way to follow the devils example.

You have accused me of "hating the testimonies" and of being "a spiritual dwarf," among other things on this forum, just because I have tried to explain the official belief and position on what you are doing; but I happen to believe very strongly in Ellen White having the gift of prophecy and of her being a prophet; however, at the end of the day, she is not Bible. Never has been, never will be. And isnt now. Your attempts to "prove" that what she writes is "the same as scripture" are ludicrous, and leading people astray. She points people to the Bible, but what she writes is not scripture.

This thing you mention about "the merits of Christ" for eg. If that's all we had to do is to "dwell" on those; then the cross would be quite unecessary. His "merits" whatever that may be, are of course important to dwell on but in those statements where Ellen White mentions that word/phrase, about His merits," she is not saying that is the gospel. She is simply saying that we need to get our minds off of ourselves, and onto Jesus, and above all, such statements were only intended by her to point us to the Bible, and what the Bible says about the gospel, and of being saved.

By setting yourself onto some kind of religious auto-pilot mode and fixating on a few of her merit statements, out of their context, you neutralize the need for the cross, and teach people to use her writings as incantations. You do not quote in context, and it is giving people a very fuzzy concept of the gospel, and of our official beliefs. In Christianity, and in the Adventist church, the cross of Christ is the test of everything which deserves to be called Christian. With you; it's all this mumbo-jumbo, quoted out of context talk about the merits of Christ. Do you even know what Mrs White was talking about when she used that kind of statement?

As in Mat 4, the devil focuses a lot on Christ's merits too. But this doesnt mean he has the gospel does it? The gospel is "Christ and Him crucified." (Gal 6:14). That's it. And that's why it's so simple. All other doctrines are vested with power and influence, according to their relation to this theme, is actually how Mrs White would put it, so you are twisting what she says away from this context, into the context where you show great delight in using her merit statements to insinuate how "wrong" the Adventist Church is. Kellogg did the same thing; and this is likely why you show such enthusiasm for posting his writings.

4/ Your persitence in refusing to provide current and accurate and specific references for where you are getting this material about the big "interview" from shows only one thing. You are hiding something.
 
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"How wonderful is the plan of redemption in its simplicity
and fullness
." E.G. White, Our Father Cares, 122.

"The matter of salvation is just as simple as ABC. But we
don't understand it
." Faith & Works, 64.

In fact "There is not one in one hundred who understands
the Bible truth on this subject that is so necessary to our
present and eternal welfare
." 1 S.M.360.

On the same page where we read that "The matter of
salvation is just as simple as ABC
," we read the following:

"How has it been with His disiciples in all ages of the
world? Why, they have learned of Jesus; they have
been in His school; they have been His students and
have learned the lessons of Christ in regard to the living
connection that the soul has with God. That living faith
is essential for our salvation that we should lay hold upon
the MERITS of the crucified and risen Saviour,
on Christ our righteousness
." Faith & Works, 64.

How do we lay hold on Christ our righteousness? By
the faith that lays right hold upon His merits, by
claiming them.

Thus "Through the MERITS of Christ he--the sinner--may find
the APPROVAL of God
." Our Father Cares, 122.

Is this not, brothers and sisters. the everlasting Gospel?
 
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"How wonderful is the plan of redemption in its simplicity
and fullness
." E.G. White, Our Father Cares, 122.

"Without faith it is impossible to please God. Living faith
enables its possessor to lay hold on the merits of Christ,
enables him to derive great comfort and satisfaction from
the plan of salvation
." 1 S.M.364.

Now the question is, How do we lay hold on the MERITS
of Christ?

The answer is simple: By claiming them. And it is our privilege
to claim them:

"Unless he makes it his life business to behold the uplifted
Saviour and to accept the MERITS which it is his privilege
to CLAIM, the sinner can no more be saved than Peter
could walk upon the water unless he kept his eyes fixed
steadily upon Jesus
." Testimonies to Ministers, 93.

Is there something more simple for the sinner who comes
to God on a daily basis with a despairing sense of his own
finite weakness than to claim the MERITS of His Saviour in
order to receive pardon and peace and joy in the Holy
Spirit, especially when he is told that it is his privilege to
claim them? If he refuses this offered mercy, he cannot be
saved.

I ask you again, brothers and sisters, is this not the light
of the Gospel which is to illuminate the whole earth?
 
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Castaway57

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Now the question is, How do we lay hold on the MERITS
of Christ?

The answer is simple: By claiming them. And it is our privilege
to claim them:
That amounts to an incantation; and eliminates the need for the cross. I think you know what the Bible calls that.

Many "claims" are made in the Christian world; and I think you also know where most of them lead to.

The relationship of what you are trying to do now with this Jesus talk at the end of your very disparaging plethora of Kellogg rantings indicates your obligation to reply to the concerns I have raised and to stop beating around the bush with religious talk which, so far, has not even stated what the gospel is.
 
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Castaway57

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Since you insist, regarding "The Interview
with Dr. kellogg
," the ball is in your court
to prove that it is not authentic.

sky

Just as I thought. Your refusal to provide us with a reference for this interview is a secretive and evasive approach that shows you are unwilling to allow us to check out the various posts for ourselves. The request is reasonable one but your response is unreasonable. Not being willing to have your position studied in depth by not providing references for us means that you expect us to follow one man. That man being you and you have harped on and on about how we must be good little boys and girls and not do that at church. Yet you ask us to do it here with you
 
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Castaway57

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"The only faith that will benefit us is that which
embraces Him as a personal Saviour: which
appropriates His merits to ourselves
."
Desire of Ages,347.

Is this the Gospel or not?
No; it's not. For more than one reason too. One; it is not Bible; you are using the writings of Ellen White to establish doctrine, and again, because of your refusal to use the Bible first as the rule of doctrine; you have actually quoted this out of it's context too. As usual; you are following the example of Mat 4 where Satan only quoted a portion of the quote, to lend credence to his assertions. You have, in this case, given a totally incomplete form of the gospel, thereby rendering, as in Mat 4, a false gospel.
 
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"Many have a nominal faith in Christ, but they
know nothing of that vital dependence upon
Him which appropriates the merits of a crucified
and risen Saviour
." Selected Messages, vol.1,
p.389.

This is one more evidence that this is the
Bible truth on this subject that is so
necessary to our present and eternal
welfare and that not one in one hundred
undestands for himself.

We are now under obligation to believe.

sky
 
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Now you say it is not the Gospel because it is
not the Bible.

Wrong. It is the Bible truth on this subject that
is so necessary to our present and eternal
welfare.

This is the truth that the Refomers discovered
through their study of the Scriptures.

Martin Luther wrote:

"Do not look for salvation in your own strength
or in your good works but in the MERITS of
Christ and in God's grace
." D'Aubigne, History
of the Reformation of the Sixteenth Century,
p.78.

"Luther tried through works to obtain the
favour of God; but he was not satisfied
until a gleam of light from Heaven drove
the darkness from his mind, and led him
to trust, not in works, but in the MERITS
of the blood of Christ
." E.G. White, Spiritual
Gifts, vol.1, 120.

Again this is the Bible paraphrased.

The Lord sent us these testimonies in order
for us to grasp this Bible truth on this
subject that is so necessary to our present
and eternal welfare.

If we, as a people, resist this light again,
the Lord will have no choice but to divorce
us from His work and the call will be extended
to another class of people and the message
will swell into the loud cry to the world and we
will be left behind.
 
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It is the Bible but we don't undestand it
and that is why the Lord has sent us
many testimonies presenting this vital
truth to us in clear, distinct lines.

When it was first presented it was resisted
and this truth has been in a large degree
kept away from the church and therefore
from the world.

Will we resist this precious light again?

"When we seek to gain Heaven through
the MERITS of Christ, the soul makes
progress
." Faith & Works, 94.

The soul makes progress from grace to
grace, from strengh to strength, and
from victory to victory for through the
merits of Christ God has worked out
our complete salvation.

sky
 
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