The books of Hebrews and Revelation prove the unchangeableness of God's Holy Law. (2)

[FredVB]

I have in various places said the following things, which were in my own words, much like what I say elsewhere, nothing I write anywhere else contradicting these things, there is nothing legalistic in what was said, I think that should be seen, it should be shown where anything shows definite legalism. I have been speaking of salvation being from God's grace.

I can see that Yahweh God is not limited in his grace, and so it is understood correctly that he is not willing that any should perish, so all have a chance. Not all respond as they should, and as there is not contradiction it must be understood that with those who will never be reconciled with him, those he would permit to fall for a strong delusion.

Christ is indeed truly one in being with the heavenly Father. He said of himself, "I am the life". So he is the life, through whom we can have life. All things that were made have their being from him.

Yahweh God is unity. The heavenly Father was not on the cross, but the union that there was and is had been cut, with the Son saying "My God, why have you forsaken me?" This was a payment that is not conceivable with any limited perspective, with it in payment for us in being redeemed.

Talking about that Jesus was human and that he was God, because he was human he was killed as one, because he was God his payment in his sacrifice could be effective for all forever.

About all humans being sinless, what we would learn from the Bible is not this being said, but that sins are covered, that is, they are dealt with, that the redeemed are themselves not judged for that, Christ bore it. Those who will not come to Christ believing are already condemned, it is not just for not believing, but without that, they are still in their sins with only themselves to bear them.

Every human being ever born, other than Jesus himself, has a sin nature, with time it will come at sometime they will make choices that are sin. Yahweh is gracious and is not limited, he is not willing that any should perish and each and every is given a chance, that they may respond and be given what they need to understand to come into the eternal life of salvation through Jesus Christ. Those rejecting that are not saved, they have rejected the grace of Yahweh.

The actual salvation that is promised, from Yahweh God, is the work of God, through the righteous life of Christ through his works and atoning sacrifice, and work of his Spirit in believers, from God's grace, according to the essential faith of salvation with which believers respond to the revelation for it given to them. As it is the work of God, it does not fail.

Passages speaking of salvation for all men are speaking of gospel salvation to be made available for any of all nationalities. There may be some there with some belief, but not that essential faith of salvation, and so it is sinful, unbelieving hearts that turn away from God, this is not said to happen with those saved according to the essential faith, that is the work of God, but all in an assembly should make sure of their convictions, so true believers can be assured, and those who are not can be aware of it and truly come to salvation rather than hardening and turning away from God's grace. And good works, though not saving any, do accompany the believers of the true essential faith.

It was claimed that I said, "the earth had to melt away before any aspect of the Law or Prophets were fulfilled". That was not true, go look at what I actually say. I quoted Jesus, who spoke of it not passing away, that I said being fulfilled refers to something different was not remembered. He said until all is fulfilled and I never spoke that not any thing had yet been fulfilled but showed that there are things not yet fulfilled and that is disregarded.

Reference to the decision reached shown in Acts should acknowledge that it was not about Jews who believed no longer observing what they had as Jews.

 

[from scratch]

It was claimed that I said, "the earth had to melt away before any aspect of the Law or Prophets were fulfilled". That was not true, go look at what I actually say. I quoted Jesus, who spoke of it not passing away, that I said being fulfilled refers to something different was not remembered. He said until all is fulfilled and I never spoke that not any thing had yet been fulfilled but showed that there are things not yet fulfilled and that is disregarded.

Reference to the decision reached shown in Acts should acknowledge that it was not about Jews who believed no longer observing what they had as Jews.

No, no. the issue was the change of the law. Not a jot nor a tittle could pass prior to the passing of the earth. Yet we have a change of the law. This means a jot or tittle has passed and to coincide with your view also has the earth. The only other choice we have either Matthew or Hebrews is wrong. So which is it? You must deny part of the Bible to hold your view. You've been shown how to rectify this with the Gospel of Luke which also quotes Jesus.

 

[Rev Randy]

I love the comebacks. They are so non-essential.
"your argument is bad" "your argument is not good." "I don't like your argument"--- so on and so forth...

How about: Your argument is SDAish?

 

[robinvanpersie]

How about: Your argument is SDAish?

Yeah..I guess anyone who encourages others to remember the Sabbath day and keep it holy would be considered "SDAish" by some.

To this day it's mind-boggling why sooo many people have a problem with someone wanting to keep the 4th commandment...literally.

They act as if this...is such a heavy burden!

13. "If because of the sabbath, you turn your foot from doing your own pleasure on My holy day, and call the sabbath a delight, the holy day of the LORD honorable, and honor it, desisting from your own ways, from seeking your own pleasure and speaking your own word,
14. Then you will take delight in the LORD, and I will make you ride on the heights of the earth; and I will feed you with the heritage of Jacob your father, for the mouth of the LORD has spoken."

[Isaiah 58:13-14]
Delighting in the Lord on the day He calls His own is definitely not a burden, but a DELIGHT!

 

[Sophrosyne]

Yeah..I guess anyone who encourages others to remember the Sabbath day and keep it holy would be considered "SDAish" by some.

To this day it's mind-boggling why sooo many people have a problem with someone wanting to keep the 4th commandment...literally.

They act as if this...is such a heavy burden!

I guess anyone who encourages people who are spending time keeping the Sabbath thinking they must do it or be damned to the Lake of Fire the truth that they don't have to keep it and can be free of all the hassle, that they don't have to accuse and condemn people that don't keep the Sabbath it is mind boggling that anyone would want to help people out of such a group.

 

[robinvanpersie]

I guess anyone who encourages people who are spending time keeping the Sabbath thinking they must do it or be damned to the Lake of Fire the truth that they don't have to keep it and can be free of all the hassle, that they don't have to accuse and condemn people that don't keep the Sabbath it is mind boggling that anyone would want to help people out of such a group.

Wow. A run-on mouthful.
What part of keeping the 4th commandment is a hassle for you?

 

[Stryder06]

How about: Your argument is SDAish?

Well that would be a compliment

 

[Stryder06]

Wow. A run-on mouthful.
What part of keeping the 4th commandment is a hassle for you?

That would be the part where it interferes with his plans.

 

[Stryder06]

I love how everyone seems to think that those who extol sabbath keeping are sending nonsabbath keepers to hell. It's like, if you have a friend who is living in adultrey, or who is actively abusing their spouce, or who is a perpetual liar, and you try to warn them of the dangers of that lifestyle, you'd think they'd appreciate it, and not turn it around on you like "Why are you trying to condemn me?"

 

[from scratch]

Yeah..I guess anyone who encourages others to remember the Sabbath day and keep it holy would be considered "SDAish" by some.

To this day it's mind-boggling why sooo many people have a problem with someone wanting to keep the 4th commandment...literally.

They act as if this...is such a heavy burden!

13. "If because of the sabbath, you turn your foot from doing your own pleasure on My holy day, and call the sabbath a delight, the holy day of the LORD honorable, and honor it, desisting from your own ways, from seeking your own pleasure and speaking your own word,
14. Then you will take delight in the LORD, and I will make you ride on the heights of the earth; and I will feed you with the heritage of Jacob your father, for the mouth of the LORD has spoken."

[Isaiah 58:13-14]
Delighting in the Lord on the day He calls His own is definitely not a burden, but a DELIGHT!

You're so classic SDA most of your posting could be c&p.

 

[from scratch]

I guess anyone who encourages people who are spending time keeping the Sabbath thinking they must do it or be damned to the Lake of Fire the truth that they don't have to keep it and can be free of all the hassle, that they don't have to accuse and condemn people that don't keep the Sabbath it is mind boggling that anyone would want to help people out of such a group.

I was hoping other people noticed this also.

 

[from scratch]

Wow. A run-on mouthful.
What part of keeping the 4th commandment is a hassle for you?

Why don't you like liberty? Must be jealous.

 

[from scratch]

I love how everyone seems to think that those who extol sabbath keeping are sending nonsabbath keepers to hell. It's like, if you have a friend who is living in adultrey, or who is actively abusing their spouce, or who is a perpetual liar, and you try to warn them of the dangers of that lifestyle, you'd think they'd appreciate it, and not turn it around on you like "Why are you trying to condemn me?"

Is this a quote from your leader - "It means eternal salvation to keep the Sabbath holy unto the Lord" {6T 356.4}

 

[from scratch]

I did not say Israel. I said believing Israel--aka Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, David, etc. We are grafted in AMONG THEM!

Um 60% of your list are Israeli. How could you not be referring to Israel?

What would you call David? A Christian Jew? or a "saved Jew? or what? Whatever you call him, THAT'S WHO you're grafted AMONG (Romans 11:17)

You call him a Christian which is impossible because the term came into use even after the death and resurrection of Jesus denoting His followers. David didn't know about Jesus during his brief tenure on our little green planet.

heavy skirting.

Skirting what? Your beliefs, probably.

Verse 24
For if you were cut off from what is by nature a wild olive tree, and were grafted contrary to nature into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these who are the natural branches be grafted into their own olive tree?

You as a gentile come from a wild tree.
You as a gentile need to be grafted into the cultivated tree.
Verse 24 tells you that the Jews who believe after their unbelief will be grafted in again into THEIR OWN TREE!

Yes Jesus is, well can be their Olive Tree also. They're not graft back into the law. One doesn't graft back to the tree the branch was cut from. Nothing in chapter 11 implies grafting into the law or Old Covenant.

 

[Stryder06]

Is this a quote from your leader - "It means eternal salvation to keep the Sabbath holy unto the Lord" {6T 356.4}

She isn't our leader

 

[robinvanpersie]

You're so classic SDA most of your posting could be c&p.

There you go again...post referee.

 

[from scratch]

She isn't our leader

Amazing, absolutely astounding, but expected predictable behavior.

 

[robinvanpersie]

Why don't you like liberty? Must be jealous.

lol.

Jealous of disregarding God's commandments after salvation?

IN the words of Paul: "Do we then nullify the Law through faith? May it never be! On the contrary, we establish the Law." -Rom 3:31

The surprises that would occur if Paul was on this forum and seeing how his teachings are grossly misinterpreted to teach disregard to the Law of God...

 

[Stryder06]

Amazing, absolutely astounding, but expected predictable behavior.

Sorry I didn't give you more ammunition for your ridicuolous line of questioning.

 

[from scratch]

There you go again...post referee.

You might've understood better what I said if I had posted to another's post.