5 Questions Evolutionists Can't Answer

[AV1611VET]

What about killing babies? Do you think that's bad? If you do, you might want to have a word with AV1611VET about it, because your God was rather keen on it.

Here we go again.

Second time: Would you have ordered American Airlines Flight 11 and United Airlines Flight 175 shot down out of the sky?

YES or NO please?

 

[AV1611VET]

There are NO such things as justifications (read: excuses) in killing children... only causes to why it happens...

Would you have ordered American Airlines Flight 11 and United Airlines Flight 175 shot down out of the sky?

YES or NO please?

 

[In situ]

Have you ever lied, stolen anything, or lusted after a woman? If so, you are a sinner.

It may be wrong to do, but definitely not a sin. If men did no lust for women, and women did not lust for men, none of us would sit here and ask these question... Is stealing food or lying to prevent you from starving to death a sin?

What you refer to as sin in the Bible is basic population control; a leader might wants to control who have access to, say, the women because women means children and children means power.... other reasons not to sleep with every one may be that of stability in a social society. Because if you have no stability you will not be able to have a cooperative social society; not be able to grow towns and cities cities....

Tell me any culture where control does not exist... it even goes on today in our society; people will always try to control other people in all kinds of ways for purpose of gaining power or stabilizing certain social structures....

 

[mathetes123]

I judge the morality of the God of War in the old testimony, yes...



Bullocks.... to read the old testimony and try make all killing justified as the "sin of man" requires an intellectual gymnastic in the higher school.



The claimed kill skill spray by God in the old testimony, Gods obvious childlike behavior in the old testimony....and Gods childish and silly rules and set up for salvation. To believe in such god being "pure love" is to believe in God being a Janus god - evil and good at the same time. It is not a god worth any admiration...



In respect of other Christian and their beliefs I will not answer that question.



Yes, what about them? Is killing, murder and mass slaughter and extermination of entire populations right in your opinion? If it is not, why does it become right for anyone, including God? Did not God perhaps create man in his image? Are not mans moral values of good and evil a reflection of Gods moral values?

Perhaps these verses will explain it better than I can:

Romans 9:14-29
What shall we say then? Is there injustice on God's part? By no means! For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy. For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.” So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills.
You will say to me then, “Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?” But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, “Why have you made me like this?” Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use? What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory— even us whom he has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles? As indeed he says in Hosea,
“Those who were not my people I will call ‘my people,’
and her who was not beloved I will call ‘beloved. ’”
“And in the very place where it was said to them, ‘You are not my people,’
there they will be called ‘sons of the living God. ’”
And Isaiah cries out concerning Israel: “Though the number of the sons of Israel be as the sand of the sea, only a remnant of them will be saved, for the Lord will carry out his sentence upon the earth fully and without delay.” And as Isaiah predicted,
“If the Lord of hosts had not left us offspring,
we would have been like Sodom
and become like Gomorrah.”

 

[Mr Strawberry]

Here we go again.

Second time: Would you have ordered American Airlines Flight 11 and United Airlines Flight 175 shot down out of the sky?

YES or NO please?

Me personally? I don't know, but I'll say yes just for the sake of argument. Now, the problem with your analogy is not just that you are assuming your god is not omnipotent (another contradiction) and is therefore incapable of any solution except mass murder, and nor is it that your sideways trip into moral relativism destroys any claims of moral absolutism, which in turn shoots your whole belief system in the foot, but never mind, no the problem with your analogy is that it assumes your god kills so many people (tens of millions) in the Bible for comparable reasons as you present in your analogy. But if one actually looks at the justifications given in the Bible for your god's mass murder sprees, as well as his countless random gratuitous murders, they aren't even remotely close to being comparable. In fact, time and again, they are just the unjustifiable actions of the fictional character described in the Dawkins quote.

 

[mathetes123]

Me personally? I don't know, but I'll say yes just for the sake of argument. Now, the problem with your analogy is not just that you are assuming your god is not omnipotent (another contradiction) and is therefore incapable of any solution except mass murder, and the problem is not just that your sideways trip into moral relativism destroys any claims of moral absolutism, which in turn shoots your whole belief system in the foot, but never mind, no the problem with your analogy is that it assumes your god kills so many people (tens of millions) in the Bible for comparable reasons as you present in your analogy. But if one actually looks at the justifications given in the Bible for your god's mass murder sprees, as well as his countless random gratuitous murders, they aren't even remotely close to being comparable.

Your position denies the reality of free will, sin and your guilt before a holy God.

 

[In situ]

Would you have ordered American Airlines Flight 11 and United Airlines Flight 175 shot down out of the sky?

YES or NO please?

Same hypothetical question but dress in new words....

I have already told you my answer; there exists causes, but no justifications.


But to answer your hypothetical question directly: I DO NOT KNOW!
Hypothetical, since I never been in that situation to have to make such decision, and god help me I don't have to either...

(You see AV, the world is not as black and white as you try to make it be...)

 

[TLK Valentine]

Would you have ordered American Airlines Flight 11 and United Airlines Flight 175 shot down out of the sky?

YES or NO please?

If I were God -- no.

If I were a mere mortal pretending to have God on my side -- yes.

 

[TLK Valentine]

Your position denies the reality of free will, sin and your guilt before a holy God.

Present a holy God and we'll address that reality.

 

[mathetes123]

Present a holy God and we'll address that reality.

The evidence is all around you (Romans 1:20)

 

[Mr Strawberry]

Your position denies the reality of free will, sin and your guilt before a holy God.

Oh yes, that's right, your god commits genocide and then blames it on human beings. Nice one. Amazing that idea never occurred to any other perpetrators of genocide...

 

[mathetes123]

Oh yes, that's right, your god commits genocide and then blames it on human beings. Nice one. Amazing that idea never occurred to any other perpetrators of genocide...

How does a non-existent being commit genocide and how can you be so angry with a non-existent being? I'm beginning to think your faith in the non-existence of God is failing you.

 

[Mr Strawberry]

How does a non-existent being commit genocide and how can you be so angry with a non-existent being? I'm beginning to think your faith in the non-existence of God is failing you.

*raised eyebrows and quizzical smile*

You've never discussed fictional characters in literature before? Didn't they do that in English literature class when you were at school?

 

[mathetes123]

*raised eyebrows and quizzical smile*

You've never discussed fictional characters in literature before? Didn't they do that in English literature class when you were at school?

I was more into history myself.

 

[bhsmte]

I was more into history myself.

How do you think the bible holds up to the methods historians use to determine credibility of claims?

 

[Mr Strawberry]

I was more into history myself.

Then you'll be familiar with the other perpetrators of genocide and their justifications.

 

[In situ]

Perhaps these verses will explain it better than I can:

Romans 9:14-29
What shall we say then? Is there injustice on God's part? By no means! For he says to Moses,

Interesting that you bring in Moses in this. He will server as a good example. Take as an example when spokesmen for the masses came to Moses asking, begging to him, to stop the killing, because people was tired of slaughter and murder other tribes. Moses then claimed a conveniently nature catastrophic that came in time of this had been summoned by god to kill a large number of the people because they was complaining and wanted to stop the killing. This event, yet again conveniently, including the killing of all the spokesmen as well their families which Moses claimed god made the earth "swallowed" - which implies there was no traces left of these family members to determine the cause of their deaths.

That sound suspicious to me and makes one wonder what really happen. To me it seams more likely Moses took a natural catastrophic event as excuse to get rid of the spokesmen by assassinate them and their entire families, men, women, and children - all of them - and then hide the bodies, this to regain and ensure a control over the people again. Hence, Moses was cunning enough to claim this event was Gods will and actions; no blood on his hands.... people was easily fooled at that time or scared of his power or Gods wrath or all of it...

With this story I am not trying to make this look exceptional in any way; it is well know to have happen over and over in history when families fight to gain power, so in that sense it is nothing special or exceptional with this kind of assassinations, but it makes me sick to hear some people today defend it as actually being done by a Loving God and then try to make up some justification for it as well....

Besides the moral issues, the problem with these justification is that they never goes into detail about actually cases but only treat the issue in very broad terms. We have to remember the Bible tells of millions of people, men, women and children, that was killed, slaughtered or murdered under different situations and circumstances and motives and to treat them all as one case is pretty silly, and almost a denial of the events, in my opinion...

 

[In situ]

Oh yes, that's right, your god commits genocide and then blames it on human beings. Nice one. Amazing that idea never occurred to any other perpetrators of genocide...

It is rather the other way around, people "blamed" it on god. The sick part is that some people like Craig tries to defend the "god did it" part today...

 

[In situ]

The evidence is all around you (Romans 1:20)

Seams more like you think Roman 1:20 is the evidence - evidence you already know are rejected by naturalists as evidence. Secondly, the claim in Roman 1:20 is false today because there is in no way with our current understanding and knowledge of nature anyway near clear that a deity lies behind it - on the contrary - a deity seams to be very missing from it all. And even if a deity could be traced in nature - who says it is the God of the Bible that is Behind it? There are thousand of other gods that makes equal claims to be behind it as well....

 

[mathetes123]

Interesting that you bring in Moses in this. He will server as a good example. Take as an example when spokesmen for the masses came to Moses asking, begging to him, to stop the killing, because people was tired of slaughter and murder other tribes. Moses then claimed a conveniently nature catastrophic that came in time of this had been summoned by god to kill a large number of the people because they was complaining and wanted to stop the killing. This event, yet again conveniently, including the killing of all the spokesmen as well their families which Moses claimed god made the earth "swallowed" - which implies there was no traces left of these family members to determine the cause of their deaths.

That sound suspicious to me and makes one wonder what really happen. To me it seams more likely Moses took a natural catastrophic event as excuse to get rid of the spokesmen by assassinate them and their entire families, men, women, and children - all of them - and then hide the bodies, this to regain and ensure a control over the people again. Hence, Moses was cunning enough to claim this event was Gods will and actions; no blood on his hands.... people was easily fooled at that time or scared of his power or Gods wrath or all of it...

With this story I am not trying to make this look exceptional in any way; it is well know to have happen over and over in history when families fight to gain power, so in that sense it is nothing special or exceptional with this kind of assassinations, but it makes me sick to hear some people today defend it as actually being done by a Loving God and then try to make up some justification for it as well....

Besides the moral issues, the problem with these justification is that they never goes into detail about actually cases but only treat the issue in very broad terms. We have to remember the Bible tells of millions of people, men, women and children, that was killed, slaughtered or murdered under different situations and circumstances and motives and to treat them all as one case is pretty silly, and almost a denial of the events, in my opinion...

How do you explain the other miracles of the exodus, like the parting of the Red Sea, the manna from the skies, or the water from the rock? Were the people Imagining things when they heard God speak from mount Sinai or when they followed the pillar of fire by night and the cloud by day?