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Confused about the commandment that was "abolished." (2)

bugkiller

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Laws - laws - so many --- what to do.
Understand them in context of course.

...........God's Laws - 10 Commandments
................/......................\
............../..........................\
Moses' laws........................aka man's laws
.............\.........................../
...............God's Laws explained
under 'you do this for love' of God and man as stated by Jesus.
.................\..................../
........Old Covenant prophetic to New Covenant
....................\............../
..........Old laws [man's] not salvific
.........God's Laws stand for salvation
........................\......./
Old Laws [Covenant] converted via Christ to meet
............God's Laws for the soul.

I didnt come to abolish the Law - God's Law - but to fulfill them.

We do not follow the old laws [Paul] aka man's law - but the new Covenant
[Baptism, so forth vs hand and pot washing and circumsion]
No sir we are not saved even by God's law. We are saved by grace - unmerrited favor and not by works (obedience) to the law. Please read Romans, Galatians and Ephesians.


2 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)
6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. Eph 2

bugkiller
 
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tzadik

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Nice and accurate confession.
Thanks.

Was Paul keeping the Law to maintain his salvation?
"all will know that there is nothing to the things which they have been told about you, but that you yourself also walk orderly, keeping the Law."

Was David meditating on the Law of God to maintain his salvation?
"O how I love Your law! It is my meditation all the day."

Was Messiah teaching us to maintain our salvation when He said: "Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven." ?
 
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MoreCoffee

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The New Law or the Law of the Gospel is the perfection here on earth of the divine law, natural and revealed. It is the work of Christ and is expressed particularly in the Sermon on the Mount. It is also the work of the Holy Spirit and through him it becomes the interior law of charity:
“I will establish a New Covenant with the house of Israel.... I will put my laws into their minds, and write them on their hearts, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.”​
The New Law is the grace of the Holy Spirit given to the faithful through faith in Christ. It works through charity; it uses the Sermon on the Mount to teach us what must be done and makes use of the sacraments to give us the grace to do it:
If anyone should meditate with devotion and perspicacity on the sermon our Lord gave on the mount, as we read in the Gospel of Saint Matthew, he will doubtless find there... the perfect way of the Christian life.... This sermon contains... all the precepts needed to shape one’s life.(St. Augustine)​
The Law of the Gospel “ fulfils,” refines, surpasses, and leads the Old Law to its perfection. In the Beatitudes, the New Law fulfils the divine promises by elevating and orienting them toward the “kingdom of heaven.” It is addressed to those open to accepting this new hope with faith—the poor, the humble, the afflicted, the pure of heart, those persecuted on account of Christ—and so marks out the surprising ways of the Kingdom.

The Law of the Gospel fulfils the commandments of the Law. The Lord’s Sermon on the Mount, far from abolishing or devaluing the moral prescriptions of the Old Law, releases their hidden potential and has new demands arise from them: it reveals their entire divine and human truth. It does not add new external precepts, but proceeds to reform the heart, the root of human acts, where man chooses between the pure and the impure, where faith, hope, and charity are formed and with them the other virtues. The Gospel thus brings the Law to its fullness through imitation of the perfection of the heavenly Father, through forgiveness of enemies and prayer for persecutors, in emulation of the divine generosity. -- Based on the teaching of Christ and his church.
 
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tzadik

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The New Law or the Law of the Gospel is the perfection here on earth of the divine law, natural and revealed. It is the work of Christ and is expressed particularly in the Sermon on the Mount. It is also the work of the Holy Spirit and through him it becomes the interior law of charity:
“I will establish a New Covenant with the house of Israel.... I will put my laws into their minds, and write them on their hearts, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.”​
The New Law is the grace of the Holy Spirit given to the faithful through faith in Christ. It works through charity; it uses the Sermon on the Mount to teach us what must be done and makes use of the sacraments to give us the grace to do it:

Jeremiah 31 is pretty clear at explaining the DIFFERENCE between these two covenants, and not ONCE did he say ANYTHING about changing, removing or replacing His Torah. Ever. On the contrary, Jeremiah tells us that God will take His ONE AND ONLY Law (Torah) and write it on the hearts and minds of all who will partake in this New Covenant.
---
Please show me where you find the difference between Jeremiah's usage of the word Torah תּוֹרָה throughout Jeremiah and how it differs from Jeremiah 31:33.

Jer 2:8 "The priests did not say, 'Where is the LORD?' And those who handle the Torah (תּוֹרָה) did not know Me; The rulers also transgressed against Me, And the prophets prophesied by Baal And walked after things that did not profit.

Jer 6:19 "Hear, O earth: behold, I am bringing disaster on this people, The fruit of their plans, Because they have not listened to My words, And as for My Torah (תּוֹרָה) they have rejected it also.

Jer 8:8 "How can you say, 'We are wise, And the Torah (תּוֹרָה) of the LORD is with us'? But behold, the lying pen of the scribes Has made it into a lie.

Jer 9:13 The LORD said, "Because they have forsaken My Torah (תּוֹרָה) which I set before them, and have not obeyed My voice nor walked according to it,

Jer 16:11 "Then you are to say to them, 'It is because your forefathers have forsaken Me,' declares the LORD, 'and have followed other gods and served them and bowed down to them; but Me they have forsaken and have not kept My Torah (תּוֹרָה).

Jer 18:18 Then they said, "Come and let us devise plans against Jeremiah. Surely the Torah (תּוֹרָה) is not going to be lost to the priest, nor counsel to the sage, nor the divine word to the prophet! Come on and let us strike at him with our tongue, and let us give no heed to any of his words."

Jer 26:4 "And you will say to them, 'Thus says the LORD, "If you will not listen to Me, to walk in My Torah (תּוֹרָה) which I have set before you,

Jer 31:33 "But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days," declares the LORD, "I will put My Torah (תּוֹרָה) within them and on their heart I will write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.

Jer 32:23 'They came in and took possession of it, but they did not obey Your voice or walk in Your Torah (תּוֹרָה); they have done nothing of all that You commanded them to do; therefore You have made all this calamity come upon them.

Jer 44:10 "But they have not become contrite even to this day, nor have they feared nor walked in My Torah (תּוֹרָה) or My statutes, which I have set before you and before your fathers."'

Jer 44:23 "Because you have burned sacrifices and have sinned against the LORD and not obeyed the voice of the LORD or walked in His Torah (תּוֹרָה) His statutes or His testimonies, therefore this calamity has befallen you, as it has this day."
 
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bugkiller

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Thanks.

Was Paul keeping the Law to maintain his salvation?
"all will know that there is nothing to the things which they have been told about you, but that you yourself also walk orderly, keeping the Law."
No Paul was not keeping the law while living like a Gentile in Antioch. I do not think you comprehend or consider the context of the situation in Jerusalem.
Was David meditating on the Law of God to maintain his salvation?
"O how I love Your law! It is my meditation all the day."
David never possessed salvation til after the cross. There is no salvation under the law. Grace had not yet come.
Was Messiah teaching us to maintain our salvation when He said: "Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven." ?
At that point in the Sermon on the Mount Jesus had not even mentioned a commandment. Jesus then quotes one and says But I say which means He was teaching something besides the commandments found in the law.

You must be very fustrated by now. I certianly would have.

bugkiller
 
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bugkiller

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Jeremiah 31 is pretty clear at explaining the DIFFERENCE between these two covenants, and not ONCE did he say ANYTHING about changing, removing or replacing His Torah. Ever. On the contrary, Jeremiah tells us that God will take His ONE AND ONLY Law (Torah) and write it on the hearts and minds of all who will partake in this New Covenant.
---
Please show me where you find the difference between Jeremiah's usage of the word Torah תּוֹרָה throughout Jeremiah and how it differs from Jeremiah 31:33.

Jer 2:8 "The priests did not say, 'Where is the LORD?' And those who handle the Torah (תּוֹרָה) did not know Me; The rulers also transgressed against Me, And the prophets prophesied by Baal And walked after things that did not profit.

Jer 6:19 "Hear, O earth: behold, I am bringing disaster on this people, The fruit of their plans, Because they have not listened to My words, And as for My Torah (תּוֹרָה) they have rejected it also.

Jer 8:8 "How can you say, 'We are wise, And the Torah (תּוֹרָה) of the LORD is with us'? But behold, the lying pen of the scribes Has made it into a lie.

Jer 9:13 The LORD said, "Because they have forsaken My Torah (תּוֹרָה) which I set before them, and have not obeyed My voice nor walked according to it,

Jer 16:11 "Then you are to say to them, 'It is because your forefathers have forsaken Me,' declares the LORD, 'and have followed other gods and served them and bowed down to them; but Me they have forsaken and have not kept My Torah (תּוֹרָה).

Jer 18:18 Then they said, "Come and let us devise plans against Jeremiah. Surely the Torah (תּוֹרָה) is not going to be lost to the priest, nor counsel to the sage, nor the divine word to the prophet! Come on and let us strike at him with our tongue, and let us give no heed to any of his words."

Jer 26:4 "And you will say to them, 'Thus says the LORD, "If you will not listen to Me, to walk in My Torah (תּוֹרָה) which I have set before you,

Jer 31:33 "But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days," declares the LORD, "I will put My Torah (תּוֹרָה) within them and on their heart I will write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.

Jer 32:23 'They came in and took possession of it, but they did not obey Your voice or walk in Your Torah (תּוֹרָה); they have done nothing of all that You commanded them to do; therefore You have made all this calamity come upon them.

Jer 44:10 "But they have not become contrite even to this day, nor have they feared nor walked in My Torah (תּוֹרָה) or My statutes, which I have set before you and before your fathers."'

Jer 44:23 "Because you have burned sacrifices and have sinned against the LORD and not obeyed the voice of the LORD or walked in His Torah (תּוֹרָה) His statutes or His testimonies, therefore this calamity has befallen you, as it has this day."
Is the phrase Not according to found in your edition of the Bible?

bugkiller
 
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WarriorAngel

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Jeremiah 31 is pretty clear at explaining the DIFFERENCE between these two covenants, and not ONCE did he say ANYTHING about changing, removing or replacing His Torah. Ever. On the contrary, Jeremiah tells us that God will take His ONE AND ONLY Law (Torah) and write it on the hearts and minds of all who will partake in this New Covenant.
---
Please show me where you find the difference between Jeremiah's usage of the word Torah תּוֹרָה throughout Jeremiah and how it differs from Jeremiah 31:33.

Jer 2:8 "The priests did not say, 'Where is the LORD?' And those who handle the Torah (תּוֹרָה) did not know Me; The rulers also transgressed against Me, And the prophets prophesied by Baal And walked after things that did not profit.

Jer 6:19 "Hear, O earth: behold, I am bringing disaster on this people, The fruit of their plans, Because they have not listened to My words, And as for My Torah (תּוֹרָה) they have rejected it also.

Jer 8:8 "How can you say, 'We are wise, And the Torah (תּוֹרָה) of the LORD is with us'? But behold, the lying pen of the scribes Has made it into a lie.

Jer 9:13 The LORD said, "Because they have forsaken My Torah (תּוֹרָה) which I set before them, and have not obeyed My voice nor walked according to it,

Jer 16:11 "Then you are to say to them, 'It is because your forefathers have forsaken Me,' declares the LORD, 'and have followed other gods and served them and bowed down to them; but Me they have forsaken and have not kept My Torah (תּוֹרָה).

Jer 18:18 Then they said, "Come and let us devise plans against Jeremiah. Surely the Torah (תּוֹרָה) is not going to be lost to the priest, nor counsel to the sage, nor the divine word to the prophet! Come on and let us strike at him with our tongue, and let us give no heed to any of his words."

Jer 26:4 "And you will say to them, 'Thus says the LORD, "If you will not listen to Me, to walk in My Torah (תּוֹרָה) which I have set before you,

Jer 31:33 "But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days," declares the LORD, "I will put My Torah (תּוֹרָה) within them and on their heart I will write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.

Jer 32:23 'They came in and took possession of it, but they did not obey Your voice or walk in Your Torah (תּוֹרָה); they have done nothing of all that You commanded them to do; therefore You have made all this calamity come upon them.

Jer 44:10 "But they have not become contrite even to this day, nor have they feared nor walked in My Torah (תּוֹרָה) or My statutes, which I have set before you and before your fathers."'

Jer 44:23 "Because you have burned sacrifices and have sinned against the LORD and not obeyed the voice of the LORD or walked in His Torah (תּוֹרָה) His statutes or His testimonies, therefore this calamity has befallen you, as it has this day."
Jer 9:13
[13] And the Lord said: Because they have forsaken my law, which I gave them, and have not heard my voice, and have not walked in it

9:13 And Yähwè יָהוֶה 3068 saith, 559 z8799 Because x5921 they have forsaken 5800 z8800 x853 my law 8451 which x834 I set 5414 z8804 before 6440 them, and have not x3808 obeyed 8085 z8804 my voice, 6963 neither x3808 walked 1980 z8804 therein;

וַיֹּאמֶר יְהוָה עַל־עָזְבָם אֶת־תּוֹרָתִי אֲשֶׁר נָתַתִּי לִפְנֵיהֶם וְלֹא־שָׁמְעוּ בְקוֹלִי וְלֹא־הָלְכוּ בָהּ


It appears 'Torah' was added in your translation - per whatever translator put it there.
Torah is not God's law.

For Jesus said...


Matthew 19
[7] They say to him: Why then did Moses command to give a bill of divorce, and to put away? [8] He saith to them: Because Moses by reason of the hardness of your heart permitted you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so.

Jesus is rebuking the laws of Moses. Because Moses permitted - yah - the man Moses - permitted things - that were not so at the beginning.

The Torah - is the law of Moses aka man's laws.
 
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WarriorAngel

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Now what Jesus said in comparison to the law of Moses vs God's law.

Matthew 15
[2] Why do thy disciples transgress the tradition of the ancients? For they wash not their hands when they eat bread. [3] But he answering, said to them: Why do you also transgress the commandment of God for your tradition? For God said: [4] Honour thy father and mother: And: He that shall curse father or mother, let him die the death. [5] But you say: Whosoever shall say to father or mother, The gift whatsoever proceedeth from me, shall profit thee.
 
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WarriorAngel

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Jesus expounds on why God's law is perfect and why we follow them....

Mark 12
Mark 12:30 [28] And there came one of the scribes that had heard them reasoning together, and seeing that he had answered them well, asked him which was the first commandment of all. [29] And Jesus answered him: The first commandment of all is, Hear, O Israel: the Lord thy God is one God. [30]
And thou shalt love the Lord thy God, with thy whole heart, and with thy whole soul, and with thy whole mind, and with thy whole strength. This is the first commandment. [31] [31] And the second is like to it: Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is no other commandment greater than these. [32] And the scribe said to him: Well, Master, thou hast said in truth, that there is one God, and there is no other besides him. [33] And that he should be loved with the whole heart, and with the whole understanding, and with the whole soul, and with the whole strength; and to love one' s neighbour as one' s self, is a greater thing than all holocausts and sacrifices. [34] And Jesus seeing that he had answered wisely, said to him: Thou art not far from the kingdom of God. And no man after that durst ask him any questions.


Understood to mean - when you love God and neighbor you will NOT transgress the 10 commandments which were set up - for us avoid - hurting others.


Unless someone has some ill conceived concept committing adultery or killing or stealing from someone is loving.
 
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Cribstyl

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No sir we are not saved even by God's law. We are saved by grace - unmerrited favor and not by works (obedience) to the law. Please read Romans, Galatians and Ephesians.


2 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)
6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. Eph 2

bugkiller
Nailed it...;)
 
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tzadik

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Jer 9:13
[13] And the Lord said: Because they have forsaken my law, which I gave them, and have not heard my voice, and have not walked in it

9:13 And Yähwè יָהוֶה 3068 saith, 559 z8799 Because x5921 they have forsaken 5800 z8800 x853 my law 8451 which x834 I set 5414 z8804 before 6440 them, and have not x3808 obeyed 8085 z8804 my voice, 6963 neither x3808 walked 1980 z8804 therein;

וַיֹּאמֶר יְהוָה עַל־עָזְבָם אֶת־תּוֹרָתִי אֲשֶׁר נָתַתִּי לִפְנֵיהֶם וְלֹא־שָׁמְעוּ בְקוֹלִי וְלֹא־הָלְכוּ בָהּ


It appears 'Torah' was added in your translation - per whatever translator put it there.
Torah is not God's law.
8451 is Torah. So it's in whatever translation you put up there as well. There's no getting around it.
For Jesus said...


Matthew 19
[7] They say to him: Why then did Moses command to give a bill of divorce, and to put away? [8] He saith to them: Because Moses by reason of the hardness of your heart permitted you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so.

Jesus is rebuking the laws of Moses. Because Moses permitted - yah - the man Moses - permitted things - that were not so at the beginning.

The Torah - is the law of Moses aka man's laws.
Your mistake is not understanding that the Law that you call "the Law of Moses" is actually God's Law.

So you are essentially saying that God in the flesh is rebuking the Law of God the Father. tsk tsk tsk
 
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At that point in the Sermon on the Mount Jesus had not even mentioned a commandment. Jesus then quotes one and says But I say which means He was teaching something besides the commandments found in the law.

You must be very fustrated by now. I certianly would have.

bugkiller

Good day bugkiller. Jesus here is not speaking against the law. To do so would be saying, "God says this, but I say this." This can not be! Jesus here is speaking of the true intent of the law, not the letter. He is speaking against the oral tradition of the leaders in that day.
 
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tzadik

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Good day bugkiller. Jesus here is not speaking against the law. To do so would be saying, "God says this, but I say this." This can not be! Jesus here is speaking of the true intent of the law, not the letter. He is speaking against the oral tradition of the leaders in that day.
:thumbsup:

Sometimes I feel like some people have never read this John 7 passage before...where Yeshua basically says exactly what you just said.


16. "So Jesus answered them and said, "My teaching is not Mine, but His who sent Me.
17. "If anyone is willing to do His will, he will know of the teaching, whether it is of God or whether I speak from Myself.
18. "He who speaks from himself seeks his own glory; but He who is seeking the glory of the One who sent Him, He is true, and there is no unrighteousness in Him.
 
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bugkiller

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Good day bugkiller. Jesus here is not speaking against the law. To do so would be saying, "God says this, but I say this." This can not be! Jesus here is speaking of the true intent of the law, not the letter. He is speaking against the oral tradition of the leaders in that day.
And neither am I. Point is Jesus is not teaching obligation to the law and 10 Cs.

bugkiller
 
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bugkiller

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:thumbsup:

Sometimes I feel like some people have never read this John 7 passage before...where Yeshua basically says exactly what you just said.


16. "So Jesus answered them and said, "My teaching is not Mine, but His who sent Me.
17. "If anyone is willing to do His will, he will know of the teaching, whether it is of God or whether I speak from Myself.
18. "He who speaks from himself seeks his own glory; but He who is seeking the glory of the One who sent Him, He is true, and there is no unrighteousness in Him.
Should I ask what you mean by quoting this passage or should I ask you pointed specific questions? IOW I need you to explain the passage in detail.

bugkiller
 
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tzadik

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Should I ask what you mean by quoting this passage or should I ask you pinted specific questions? IOW I need you to expalin the passage in detail.

bugkiller

Seems pretty straightforward to me...

Yeshua is telling you that the doctrine that He teaches is not His own, but the Father's.

This statement alone completely destroys any argument that "Jesus came to teach His own doctrine" or "Jesus came to do away with God's previous Instructions" "blah blah blah".

Yeshua says nay.
 
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MoreCoffee

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Jeremiah 31 is pretty clear ...

2 Corinthians 3:1-18 says that the ten commandments kill, that they are the administration of death and condemnation. That's far more clear than the weird interpretative spin you're trying to apply to Jeremiah 31.
 
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tzadik

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2 Corinthians 3:1-18 says that the ten commandments kill, that they are the administration of death and condemnation. That's far more clear than the weird interpretative spin you're trying to apply to Jeremiah 31.

Weird interpretative? Aren't you also one who EXCLAIMS "new Covenant" on top of the roof tops? Jeremiah 31 and Ezekiel 36 define said covenant.

who do the 10 commandments kill?
how do they kill?
How can a person who has been born from above be "killed" by God's Instructions?

Why would David want to meditate on killer words, delight in killer words, love killer words and where does God call His Holy Law a "killer" of believers?
 
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MoreCoffee

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Weird interpretative? Aren't you also one who EXCLAIMS "new Covenant" on top of the roof tops? Jeremiah 31 and Ezekiel 36 define said covenant.

No, they do not define the new covenant. The new testament defines the new covenant in Christ.

If you are curious about who the ten commandments kill try reading 2 Corinthians 3:1-18
Are we beginning to commend ourselves again? Or do we need, as some do, letters of recommendation to you, or from you? You yourselves are our letter of recommendation, written on your hearts, to be known and read by all men; and you show that you are a letter from Christ delivered by us, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts.

Such is the confidence that we have through Christ toward God. Not that we are competent of ourselves to claim anything as coming from us; our competence is from God, who has made us competent to be ministers of a new covenant, not in a written code but in the Spirit; for the written code kills, but the Spirit gives life.

Now if the dispensation of death, carved in letters on stone, came with such splendor that the Israelites could not look at Moses' face because of its brightness, fading as this was, will not the dispensation of the Spirit be attended with greater splendor? For if there was splendor in the dispensation of condemnation, the dispensation of righteousness must far exceed it in splendor. Indeed, in this case, what once had splendor has come to have no splendor at all, because of the splendor that surpasses it. For if what faded away came with splendor, what is permanent must have much more splendor.

Since we have such a hope, we are very bold, not like Moses, who put a veil over his face so that the Israelites might not see the end of the fading splendor. But their minds were hardened; for to this day, when they read the old covenant, that same veil remains unlifted, because only through Christ is it taken away. Yes, to this day whenever Moses is read a veil lies over their minds; but when a man turns to the Lord the veil is removed. Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. And we all, with unveiled face, beholding the glory of the Lord, are being changed into his likeness from one degree of glory to another; for this comes from the Lord who is the Spirit
. (2 Corinthians 3:1-18)​
 
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tzadik

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No, they do not define the new covenant. The new testament defines the new covenant in Christ.
Oh brother. Perfect example of someone trying to explain something out of thin air, instead of how the Scripture defines it.

The "New Testament" cannot define the "New Covenant" different from the place that God chose to reveal the first description "New Covenant" to the world.

Jeremiah 31 and Ezekiel 36 define the New Covenant. Fact.

If you are curious about who the ten commandments kill try reading 2 Corinthians 3:1-18)[/INDENT]
Unfortunately this passage does not even mention the ten commandments, let alone who they kill.

This is why I'm asking you.
You believe that "do not have any gods before me", "do not blaspheme God's name" and "do not commit adultery" kills believers?
 
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