Confused about the commandment that was "abolished." (2)

[bugkiller]

Lol. Read again till it makes sense. Lol.

The truth is, if your post is against scripture, it is defeated. Read mine again and again and again... if I wear you out, please consult your own methods before proceeding.

The Holy Spirit is far greater.

No where did I say observing the sabbath was wicked as you put on.

If you are going to promote the law, why do you not display a faith icon from one group that does so? Christianity, NT nor the NC support such. I consider it honest.

bugkiller

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by astein Observing the "4th commandment" isn't wicked behavior.
God is very loving and merciful.

Luke 6:9 Then Jesus said to them, "I ask you, which is lawful on the Sabbath: to do good or to do evil, to save life or to destroy it?"

Psalm 73:28 But it is good for me to draw near to God: I have put my trust in the Lord GOD, that I may declare all thy works.

Malachi 2:17 Ye have wearied the LORD with your words. Yet ye say, Wherein have we wearied him? When ye say, Every one that doeth evil is good in the sight of the LORD, and he delighteth in them; or, Where is the God of judgment?

Nahum 1:7 The LORD is good, a strong hold in the day of trouble; and he knoweth them that trust in him.[/

Originally Posted by bugkiller

Please read my post again. This time read every word, please.

bugkiller
​

Originally Posted by astein
Lol. Read again till it makes sense. Lol.

The truth is, if your post is against scripture, it is defeated. Read mine again and again and again... if I wear you out, please consult your own methods before proceeding.

The Holy Spirit is far greater.

No where did I say observing the sabbath was wicked as you put on.

If you are going to promote the law, why do you not display a faith icon from one group that does so?
Christianity, NT nor the NC support such. I consider it honest.

bugkiller

That way we won't need a program guide to tell 'em apart



.

 

[astein]

That way we won't need a program guide to tell 'em apart



.

Good is good.

 

[MamaZ]

Good is good.

There is only one that is good. God

 

[tzadik]

If you are going to promote the law, why do you not display a faith icon from one group that does so? Christianity,

'Christianity' does not promote the Law of God?
Let's see how the Word of God described "Christianity" ~or more accurately the sect of the Nazarenes or followers of "The Way"

"For we have found this man a real pest and a fellow who stirs up dissension among all the Jews throughout the world, and a ringleader of the sect of the Nazarenes.
But this I admit to you, that according to the Way which they call a sect I do serve the God of our fathers, believing everything that is in accordance with the Law and that is written in the Prophets;

NT

The 'New Testament' does not promote the Law of God?

"But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away than for one stroke of a letter of the Law to fail.

for it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified.

So then, the Law is holy, and the commandment is holy and righteous and good.

For we know that the Law is spiritual, but I am of flesh, sold into bondage to sin.

But if I do the very thing I do not want to do, I agree with the Law, confessing that the Law is good.

For I joyfully concur with the law of God in the inner man,

because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so,

Owe nothing to anyone except to love one another; for he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law.

But we know that the Law is good, if one uses it lawfully,

But one who looks intently at the perfect law, the law of liberty, and abides by it, not having become a forgetful hearer but an effectual doer, this man will be blessed in what he does.

Everyone who practices sin also practices lawlessness; and sin is lawlessness.

nor the NC support such.

The New Covenant does not promote the Law of God?

"But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days," declares the LORD, "I will put My law within them and on their heart I will write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people."


"Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will be careful to observe My ordinances."

Perhaps a reexamination is in order...

 

[bugkiller]

'Christianity' does not promote the Law of God?
Let's see how the Word of God described "Christianity" ~or more accurately the sect of the Nazarenes or followers of "The Way"

"For we have found this man a real pest and a fellow who stirs up dissension among all the Jews throughout the world, and a ringleader of the sect of the Nazarenes.
But this I admit to you, that according to the Way which they call a sect I do serve the God of our fathers, believing everything that is in accordance with the Law and that is written in the Prophets;


The 'New Testament' does not promote the Law of God?

"But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away than for one stroke of a letter of the Law to fail.

for it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified.

So then, the Law is holy, and the commandment is holy and righteous and good.

For we know that the Law is spiritual, but I am of flesh, sold into bondage to sin.

But if I do the very thing I do not want to do, I agree with the Law, confessing that the Law is good.

For I joyfully concur with the law of God in the inner man,

because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so,

Owe nothing to anyone except to love one another; for he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law.

But we know that the Law is good, if one uses it lawfully,

But one who looks intently at the perfect law, the law of liberty, and abides by it, not having become a forgetful hearer but an effectual doer, this man will be blessed in what he does.

Everyone who practices sin also practices lawlessness; and sin is lawlessness.


The New Covenant does not promote the Law of God?

"But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days," declares the LORD, "I will put My law within them and on their heart I will write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people."


"Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will be careful to observe My ordinances."

Perhaps a reexamination is in order...

Fine by me if you want to observe your definition of the law to maintain salvation. Works of the law to maintain or possess salvation will be rewarded with the wages of death. OTH I have recieved the gift of God which is life. This is the covenant that applies to me.

bugkiller

 

[tzadik]

Fine by me if you want to observe your definition of the law to maintain salvation.

Was Paul keeping the Law to maintain his salvation?
"all will know that there is nothing to the things which they have been told about you, but that you yourself also walk orderly, keeping the Law."

Was David meditating on the Law of God to maintain his salvation?
"O how I love Your law! It is my meditation all the day."

Was Messiah teaching us to maintain our salvation when He said: "Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven." ?

Works of the law to maintain or possess salvation will be rewarded with the wages of death.

I wholeheartedly agree. Anyone trying to earn their salvation or justificatoin through works of the law is screwed.

 

[WarriorAngel]

Laws - laws - so many --- what to do.
Understand them in context of course.

...........God's Laws - 10 Commandments
................/......................\
............../..........................\
Moses' laws........................aka man's laws
.............\.........................../
...............God's Laws explained
under 'you do this for love' of God and man as stated by Jesus.
.................\..................../
........Old Covenant prophetic to New Covenant
....................\............../
..........Old laws [man's] not salvific
.........God's Laws stand for salvation
........................\......./
Old Laws [Covenant] converted via Christ to meet
............God's Laws for the soul.

I didnt come to abolish the Law - God's Law - but to fulfill them.

We do not follow the old laws [Paul] aka man's law - but the new Covenant
[Baptism, so forth vs hand and pot washing and circumsion]

 

[MoreCoffee]

1,389 posts .... are we there yet?

 

[tzadik]

Laws - laws - so many --- what to do.
Understand them in context of course.

Let's.

...........God's Laws - 10 Commandments
................/......................\
............../..........................\
Moses' laws........................aka man's laws

Lost me here. What is the difference between "Moses' laws" and man's laws? (And by Moses' laws, do you mean God's Laws?)

 

[astein]

There is only one that is good. God

God is good. The definition of good, is God.

 

[MoreCoffee]

The Old Law is the first stage of revealed Law. Its moral prescriptions are summed up in the Ten Commandments. The precepts of the Decalogue lay the foundations for the vocation of man fashioned in the image of God; they prohibit what is contrary to the love of God and neighbour and prescribe what is essential to it. The Decalogue is a light offered to the conscience of every man to make God’s call and ways known to him and to protect him against evil:

God wrote on the tables of the Law what men did not read in their hearts.​

According to Christian tradition, the Law is holy, spiritual, and good, yet still imperfect. Like a tutor it shows what must be done, but does not of itself give the strength, the grace of the Spirit, to fulfil it. Because of sin, which it cannot remove, it remains a law of bondage. According to St. Paul, its special function is to denounce and disclose sin, which constitutes a “law of concupiscence” in the human heart. However, the Law remains the first stage on the way to the kingdom. It prepares and disposes the chosen people and each Christian for conversion and faith in the Saviour God. It provides a teaching which endures for ever, like the Word of God.

 

[Stryder06]

<snip>According to Christian tradition, the Law is holy, spiritual, and good, yet still imperfect. <snip>

Would seem scripture disagrees with your traditions:

The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.

Should carefully consider the words of Christ:
But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

 

[bugkiller]

Would seem scripture disagrees with your traditions:

The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.

Should carefully consider the words of Christ:
But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

Very fitting and you should apply your advice to yourself.

bugkiller

 

[WarriorAngel]

Let's.


Lost me here. What is the difference between "Moses' laws" and man's laws? (And by Moses' laws, do you mean God's Laws?)

God's laws - 10 Commandments.
Moses law [man's law actually] - Torah - washings, diet, circumcisn...et al.

Remember Jesus showed the difference when talking bout divorce...
He said 'Moses allowed this due to your hrd hearts...'
But it is not so...

However; on the other hand - He explained the basis of the 10 Commandments.
Love God - love neighbor and thus - in relation to that - it is natural you will not break the 10 Commandments since they were put in place to avoid hurting others and God.

When it says the law cannot save - it's the law Moses gave. Being clean has nothing to do with one's soul.
However; the NC does... that which Christ came to differentiate...and create the NC from the OC - Passover to Eucharist and Circumcion to Baptism and so forth.

 

[WarriorAngel]

IE - He perfected the placement of 'rites' for the soul.
The rite of washing ones hands before eating - not for the soul. But washing one's soul via baptism - yes for the soul.

He came to fulfill their 'real' meaning.
The reson God allowed practices at all was to help ppl understand Rites do exist that are put in place for the purpose of His Church.

 

[Stryder06]

Very fitting and you should apply your advice to yourself.

bugkiller

I have. Thanks for your concern.

 

[bugkiller]

God's laws - 10 Commandments.
Moses law [man's law actually] - Torah - washings, diet, circumcisn...et al.

Remember Jesus showed the difference when talking bout divorce...
He said 'Moses allowed this due to your hrd hearts...'
But it is not so...

However; on the other hand - He explained the basis of the 10 Commandments.
Love God - love neighbor and thus - in relation to that - it is natural you will not break the 10 Commandments since they were put in place to avoid hurting others and God.

When it says the law cannot save - it's the law Moses gave. Being clean has nothing to do with one's soul.
However; the NC does... that which Christ came to differentiate...and create the NC from the OC - Passover to Eucharist and Circumcion to Baptism and so forth.

Please explain how the law of Moses is man's law when it is recorded God said and told Moses what to write. God Himself said the law not appearing in the 10 Cs was greater than what is found in the 10 Cs but in Deut 6:5. Here is the passage from Mat 22 -

35 Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying,
36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
41 While the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them,
42 Saying, What think ye of Christ? whose son is he? They say unto him, The son of David

Deut 6:5 - And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.

I take it you do not believe the law of Moses to be God's inspired word.

bugkiller

 

[tzadik]

God's laws - 10 Commandments.
Moses law [man's law actually] - Torah - washings, diet, circumcisn...et al.

God's Law = the Torah. I don't know how you are "dividing God's Law". His Torah = all of His Instructions to man.

Remember Jesus showed the difference when talking bout divorce...
He said 'Moses allowed this due to your hrd hearts...'
But it is not so...

The difference between what?

However; on the other hand - He explained the basis of the 10 Commandments.
Love God - love neighbor and thus - in relation to that - it is natural you will not break the 10 Commandments since they were put in place to avoid hurting others and God.

Actually what He said in Matthew 22:40 is that ALL of God's Law hang and depend on loving God and loving our neighbor.

When it says the law cannot save - it's the law Moses gave. Being clean has nothing to do with one's soul.
However; the NC does...

does what?

that which Christ came to differentiate...and create the NC from the OC

Are you telling me that those in the Tanakh ("OT") are/were not saved?

- Passover to Eucharist

Where do you see any indication of anyone "changing" the Pesach (Passover) appointed time to anything else? If anything Messiah brought a more deeper meaning to the Passover feast that Paul encourages us to celebrate with even more meaning (1 Cor 5:8)

and Circumcion to Baptism and so forth.

Did Timothy get a double blessing then?

 

[bugkiller]

Was Paul keeping the Law to maintain his salvation?
"all will know that there is nothing to the things which they have been told about you, but that you yourself also walk orderly, keeping the Law."

Was David meditating on the Law of God to maintain his salvation?
"O how I love Your law! It is my meditation all the day."

Was Messiah teaching us to maintain our salvation when He said: "Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven." ?

I wholeheartedly agree. Anyone trying to earn their salvation or justificatoin through works of the law is screwed.

Nice and accurate confession.

bugkiller