Confused about the commandment that was "abolished." (2)

[Clare73]

For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified (Romans 2:13).

In its context of Ro 2:12-20, Ro 2:13 is a demonstration that no one will be justifified by the law (v.20),
which is the opposite of what you are using the verse to show here.

Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city (Revelation 22:14).

Does not mention just the Ten Commandments.
There are many commandments in the OT.

The law of Christ (1Co 9:21; Gal 6:2) which is love (Gal 5:6, 14; Jas 2:8; Ro 13:8-10) with no curse,

is not the law of Moses, which includes the Ten Commandments with a curse.

 

[Stryder06]

Isaiah 8:19-20 Now if people say to you, 'Consult the ghosts and the familiar spirits that chirp and mutter; should not a people consult their gods, the dead on behalf of the living, (20) for teaching and for instruction?' surely, those who speak like this will have no dawn!

Round and round we go

1st) Bad translation.
2nd) Interesting how the text says you ought not try speaking to the dead

To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them
Round and round we go as some men will believe what they want despite the clear words of the scripture.

 

[MoreCoffee]

1st) Bad translation.
2nd) Interesting how the text says you ought not try speaking to the dead

To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them
Round and round we go as some men will believe what they want despite the clear words of the scripture.

Oh, I see, how about this one?
Isaiah 8:19-20 Someone may say to you, "Go to the fortunetellers who make soft chirping sounds or ask the spirits of the dead. After all, a nation ought to be able to ask its own gods (20) what it should do." None of those who talk like that will live to see the light of day!

 

[Clare73]

Why were the 10 commandments written in stone?

Because they were the basis for the temporary (Heb 8:13) bilateral Sinaitic Covenant,

and were to be placed in the Ark as a testimony against them when they broke the Covenant,

which they did (Heb 8:7-8), and which terminated the Covenant (Heb 8:13).

 

[MoreCoffee]

One translation puts it this way
Isaiah 8:19-20 And when they say to you, Make request for us to those who have control of spirits, and to those wise in secret arts, who make hollow bird-like sounds; is it not right for a people to make request to their gods, to make request for the living to the dead? (20) Then say to them, Put your faith in the teaching and the witness (UNTRANSLATED TEXT) .If they do not say such things (UNTRANSLATED TEXT) .For him there is no dawn (UNTRANSLATED TEXT) .

Which is closer to the KJV but which also indicates that some text in the Hebrew is not being translated. I wonder if maybe the KJV did a 'conjectural emendation' of the text for the sake of making it 'make sense' according to the translator's theology?

Anyway, I know what you mean, I just wonder if maybe you need a better text - one that is not as questionable.

 

[Stryder06]

One translation puts it this way
Isaiah 8:19-20 And when they say to you, Make request for us to those who have control of spirits, and to those wise in secret arts, who make hollow bird-like sounds; is it not right for a people to make request to their gods, to make request for the living to the dead? (20) Then say to them, Put your faith in the teaching and the witness (UNTRANSLATED TEXT) .If they do not say such things (UNTRANSLATED TEXT) .For him there is no dawn (UNTRANSLATED TEXT) .

Which is closer to the KJV but which also indicates that some text in the Hebrew is not being translated. I wonder if maybe the KJV did a 'conjectural emendation' of the text for the sake of making it 'make sense' according to the translator's theology?

Anyway, I know what you mean, I just wonder if maybe you need a better text - one that is not as questionable.

There's nothing "questionable" about that text

The only thing most of these new tranlsations do is add to the confusion. Ever consider that these newer translations might be defining the text in accordance with the translators theology? You probably don't find the removal of "law and testimony" to be the least suspicious do you?

 

[Clare73]

1. How blessed is the man who does not walk in the counsel of the wicked, Nor stand in the path of sinners, nor sit in the seat of scoffers!
2. But his delight is in the law of the LORD, and in His law he meditates day and night.
3. He will be like a tree firmly planted by streams of water, which yields its fruit in its season and its leaf does not wither; and in whatever he does, he prospers.
4. The wicked are not so, but they are like chaff which the wind drives away.
5. Therefore the wicked will not stand in the judgment, nor sinners in the assembly of the righteous.
6. For the LORD knows the way of the righteous, but the way of the wicked will perish.

Psalm 1 single-handedly disproves your above post.

No sir it does not. It only proves your position is opposed to the NC found recorded in the NT.

"Law" has several meanings in the OT;
The whole OT
The Pentateuch only
The Mosaic law only

The first, not the third, meaning is being used above.

 

[tzadik]

"Law" has several meanings in the OT;
The whole OT
The Pentateuch only
The Mosaic law only

The first, not the third, meaning is being used above.

based on....

 

[Clare73]

You mean the same select group that the New Covenant is made with?
Almost EVERYTHING that was given to "Christians" was given through Israel...down to the Messiah!

Yes, Abraham was to be a blessing to all nations through the Messiah.

Yes, Abraham is the father of all who believe in Jesus Christ, there is no Jew nor Gentile in the body of Christ, the Church.

 

[tzadik]

Yes, Abraham was to be a blessing to all nations through the Messiah.

Yes, Abraham is the father of all who believe in Jesus Christ, there is no Jew nor Gentile in the body of Christ, the Church.

Which means that everyone who was ever saved is part of this SAME body of believers.

You and I are grafted in among Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, Daniel, John the Baptist, etc.

 

[Clare73]

based on....

That usage elsewhere in Scripture.

 

[tzadik]

That usage elsewhere in Scripture.

lol. Are you serious? Like for example Psalm 119? (Are all those references to the תּוֹרָה Torah also "the OT")

 

[tzadik]

That usage elsewhere in Scripture.

examples...

 

[Clare73]

Which means that everyone who was ever saved is part of this SAME body of believers.

Yes, the one people of God,
the one flock,
the one olive tree,
the one body of Christ,
the bride of the Lamb,
the Church,
the royal priesthood,
the holy nation,
the new temple of God,
the new creation,
the fulfillment of the ages (1Co 10:11).

You and I are grafted in among Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, Daniel, John the Baptist, etc.

That's what I said, Abraham is the father of all believers.
There is neither Jew nor Gentile in the body of Christ, the bride of the Lamb, the Church.

 

[tzadik]

Yes, the one people of God,
the one flock,
the one olive tree,
the one body of Christ,
the bride of the Lamb,
the Church,
the royal priesthood,
the holy nation,
the new temple of God,
the new creation,
the fulfillment of the ages (1Co 10:11).

You and I are grafted in among Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, Daniel, John the Baptist, etc.

That's what I said, Abraham is the father of all believers.
There is neither Jew nor Gentile in the body of Christ, the bride of the Lamb, the Church.

Agreed.

 

[Clare73]

lol. Are you serious? Like for example Psalm 119? (Are all those references to the תּוֹרָה Torah also "the OT")

As serious as a heart attack.

I said, there are three uses of "the Law."

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by Clare73
Yes, Abraham was to be a blessing to all nations through the Messiah.

Yes, Abraham is the father of all who believe in Jesus Christ, there is no Jew nor Gentile in the body of Christ, the Church.

Originally Posted by Clare73
Yes, Abraham was to be a blessing to all nations through the Messiah.

Yes, Abraham is the father of all who believe in Jesus Christ, there is no Jew nor Gentile in the body of Christ, the Church

Which means that everyone who was ever saved is part of this SAME body of believers.

You and I are grafted in among Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, Daniel, John the Baptist, etc.

Did Abraham keep the Jewish Sabbath given to the Hebrews at Mt Sinai?

What is the use of the apostate Jews of today keeping the Sabbath if they do not believe in Jesus and Him crucified, resurrecting and ascending into heaven?


Lazarus and the Rich Man - Here a little, there a little - Commentary
Abraham's bosom

LUKE 16:30 "And he said, 'No, father Abraham; but if one goes to them from the dead, they will repent.'
31 But he said to him, 'If they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded though one rise from the dead.' " (NKJV)

Yeshua uses the last two verses of this parable as an amazing prophecy of His pending resurrection from the dead. The rich man says that although his brothers may not accept the scriptural evidence for the identity of the Messiah, they will accept the evidence of one who is raised from the dead.
But Abraham answers and plainly tells him that anyone who rejects the Bible's teaching about the Messiah will also refuse to acknowledge the evidence of a miraculous resurrection.

This last verse is a sad prophecy about the Jews who, despite God's resurrection of His son from the power of the grave, have failed to recognize Yeshua as the prophesied Messiah.
Yeshua ends this parable abruptly, with no real resolution presented. The picture presented is a bleak one, yet there is hope for the Jews and for all Israel. In Romans 11, Paul laid out that hope in such a manner that scarcely few today have really believed it.





.

 

[tzadik]

As serious as a heart attack.

I said, there are three uses of "the Law."

I know very well of these three uses you are describing.

The question I'm asking is...HOW are you choosing/deciding to use the "OT" card, instead of the Law of God card?

What proof or basis do you have for choosing A instead of B+C...

(I personally think context does a good job of it)

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

You mean the same select group that the New Covenant is made with? Almost EVERYTHING that was given to "Christians" was given through Israel...down to the Messiah!

Don't assume what I am doing....as I was simply quoting Scripture.
Scripture states that the Anti-Christ will try to make changes to God's Laws and His Holy days...does it not?

So what is the view of the MJ sect concerning that future anti-christ [which btw was written more than 2000yr ago




.

 

[tzadik]

Did Abraham keep the Jewish Sabbath

Are you referring to God's Holy Sabbath or the "jewish one"?

given to the Hebrews at Mt Sinai?

Exodus 16:23 - "then he said to them, "This is what the LORD meant: Tomorrow is a sabbath observance, a holy sabbath to the LORD. Bake what you will bake and boil what you will boil, and all that is left over put aside to be kept until morning." Scripture shows that it was given to Israel before Sinai...