• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

hamartia

Cribstyl

Veteran
Jun 13, 2006
8,993
2,068
✟108,451.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Democrat
It's a secret to some people that the definition for Sin is not trangression of the law.
The Biblical terms for sin translated from Greek and Hebrew literally refer to missing a mark or target.

The bible at the beginning, tells that God created man is His image and after His likeness.


The bible did not tell us from the beginning that sin is trangression of a law.


(2Bcontinued) I had to keep my word and start this thread. :cool:
 
E

Eliwho

Guest
It's a secret to some people that the definition for Sin is not trangression of the law.
The Biblical terms for sin translated from Greek and Hebrew literally refer to missing a mark or target.

What target did Adam miss?

Romans 5:12 KJVA


Wherefore , as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned :



The bible at the beginning, tells that God created man is His image and after His likeness.
So what?
All His works were finished before the foundation of this world.
We won't see the finished creation till the end of this world.
It's never been on us to hit the mark.
Oh and God wasn't surprised by Adam, so that He had to make some changes to those finished works. :cool:


The bible did not tell us from the beginning that sin is trangression of a law.
What? :scratch:

Sin is transgression of the law.
The law is perfect and exposes sin.
The law was added because of transgressions.(SIN)
Yuh know, wake up call? :idea:

1 John 3:4 KJVA

Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Romans 6:16 KJVA

Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey ; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?


Romans 6:23 KJVA

For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. :amen:
 
Upvote 0

Lion King

Veni, vidi, vici
Mar 29, 2011
7,360
578
Heavenly Jerusalem- Mount Zion
✟10,388.00
Faith
Christian Seeker
Marital Status
Single
It's a secret to some people that the definition for Sin is not trangression of the law.
The Biblical terms for sin translated from Greek and Hebrew literally refer to missing a mark or target.

The bible at the beginning, tells that God created man is His image and after His likeness.





(2Bcontinued) I had to keep my word and start this thread. :cool:

Missing what mark? Law perhaps?

Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact, sin is lawlessness. 1 John 3:4


Sin entered the world only because Adam broke the COMMANDMENT OF GOD.

The bible did not tell us from the beginning that sin is trangression of a law.

But it did.

Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I have come here from God. I have not come on my own; God sent me. Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say. You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies. Yet because I tell the truth, you do not believe me! John 8:42-45
 
Upvote 0

New_Wineskin

Contributor
Jun 26, 2004
11,145
652
Elizabethtown , PA , usa
✟13,854.00
Faith
Non-Denom
It's a secret to some people that the definition for Sin is not trangression of the law.
The Biblical terms for sin translated from Greek and Hebrew literally refer to missing a mark or target.

The bible at the beginning, tells that God created man is His image and after His likeness.


The bible did not tell us from the beginning that sin is trangression of a law.


(2Bcontinued) I had to keep my word and start this thread. :cool:
This type of theology always makes a mess of things . It doesn't matter what a word "literally" meant - it matters how the author was using the word to communicate their idea . When one starts using the "missing the mark" definition of sin , it demands a accurate identification of what the "mark" is . Without that , the origin of the word becomes useless for the topic .

Anyway , if you are looking at what the Scriptures say on the subject of the relationship between law and sin ( I am not saying that anyone needs to look at them ) , how about these passages ... ?
niv said:
a)Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact, sin is lawlessness.

b)To be sure, sin was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not charged against anyone’s account where there is no law.


c)All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law.

So , the question is what "law" means in each case .
 
Upvote 0

Cribstyl

Veteran
Jun 13, 2006
8,993
2,068
✟108,451.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Democrat
Before we continue further on this interactive study, let's have a word of prayer.


:crossrc::crosseo::prayer::groupray:
Heavenly Father, to you belong all Glory and Praise. We thank you that we're are able to come to your throne by the blood on your Son Jesus Christ. We thank you for your grace and mercy toward us.
Lord we ask you to open our spiritual eyes and ears to see and understand your word.
Lord send us able teachers, who will teach and prove your word, that we may be able to eat it and live. :amen:
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Cribstyl

Veteran
Jun 13, 2006
8,993
2,068
✟108,451.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Democrat
What target did Adam miss?

Romans 5:12 KJVA

Wherefore , as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned :



So what?
All His works were finished before the foundation of this world.
We won't see the finished creation till the end of this world.
It's never been on us to hit the mark.
Oh and God wasn't surprised by Adam, so that He had to make some changes to those finished works. :cool:


What? :scratch:

Sin is transgression of the law.
The law is perfect and exposes sin.
The law was added because of transgressions.(SIN)
Yuh know, wake up call? :idea:

1 John 3:4 KJVA

Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Romans 6:16 KJVA

Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey ; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?


Romans 6:23 KJVA

For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. :amen:
From cover to cover, God's word reveals what we should understand from the pen of His prophets and chosen messengers.
I'm glad you cite Paul's epistle to the Romans, because that's where we can discover (tadaaaaa) "the doctrine of sin."

When we understand what it means to be created in the image of God. We can learn that Holiness, righteousness and love are among His foremost attributes.
To miss the mark, is to fall short of His character in us.

When we read about what caused God to send a flood. We should be moved to tears by what God has to say about humanity. It's similar to your mother saying; I regret the day that you was born.

Did God say they broke my law? or did He say; They did whatever was evil from their imagination?

Gen 6:5¶And GOD saw that the wickedness of man [was] great in the earth, and [that] every imagination of the thoughts of his heart [was] only evil continually.
Gen 6:6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
Gen 6:7 And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.



We need to start with the story to Adam and allow God's word to teach us truths we can digest.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Rick Otto
Upvote 0

Cribstyl

Veteran
Jun 13, 2006
8,993
2,068
✟108,451.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Democrat
Missing what mark? Law perhaps?

Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact, sin is lawlessness. 1 John 3:4


Sin entered the world only because Adam broke the COMMANDMENT OF GOD.



But it did.

Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I have come here from God. I have not come on my own; God sent me. Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say. You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies. Yet because I tell the truth, you do not believe me! John 8:42-45
Can you show where in scripture that 'the mark' is the law?

Have you ever noticed that the scriptures that you post and your comments are always unrelated?
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!
Site Supporter
May 19, 2015
125,550
28,531
74
GOD's country of Texas
Visit site
✟1,237,300.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Libertarian
hamartia

Some other forms of that word:

Strong's Concordance with Hebrew and Greek Lexicon

Strong's Number G266 matches the Greek ἁμαρτία (hamartia), which occurs 174 times in 151 verses in the Greek concordance
266. hamartia ham-ar-tee'-ah from 264; a sin (properly abstract):--offence, sin(-ful).

Strong's Number G264 matches the Greek ἁμαρτάνω (hamartanō), which occurs 48 times in 37 verses in the Greek concordance
264. hamartano ham-ar-tan'-o perhaps from 1 (as a negative particle) and the base of 3313; properly, to miss the mark (and so not share in the prize), i.e. (figuratively) to err, especially (morally) to sin:--

Strong's Number G265 matches the Greek ἁμάρτημα (hamartēma), which occurs 4 times in 4 verses in the Greek concordance
265. hamartema ham-ar'-tay-mah from 264; a sin (properly concrete):--sin

267. amarturos am-ar'-too-ros from 1 (as a negative particle) and a form of 3144; unattested:--without witness.

268. hamartolos ham-ar-to-los' from 264; sinful, i.e. a sinner:--sinful, sinner.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamartia

Hamartia (Ancient Greek: ἁμαρτία) is a missing the mark, failure, fault, or error. In discussions of tragedy, hamartia has often traditionally been described as a hero's fatal flaw. This usage derives from a misunderstanding of Aristotle in his work Poetics. The word hamartia is rooted in the notion of missing the mark (hamartanein) and covers a broad spectrum that includes ignorant, mistaken, or accidental wrongdoing,[1] as well as deliberate iniquity, error, or sin.[2]
This form of drawing emotion from the audience is a staple of the Greek tragedies. In Greek tragedy, stories that contain a character with a hamartia often follow a similar blueprint. The hamartia, as stated, is seen as an error in judgment or unwitting mistake is applied to the actions of the hero. For example, the hero might attempt to achieve a certain objective X; by making an error in judgment, however, the hero instead achieves the opposite of X, with disastrous consequences.

How a Christian believes humanity is impacted by either a literal or metaphorical "Fall" typically forms the foundation for their views on related theological concepts such as salvation, justification, and sanctification.[citation

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamartiology

Hamartiology (Greek: ἁμαρτία, hamartia, "missing the mark," "sin," + -λογια, -logia) is the branch of theology which studies sin.[1] Substantial branches of hamartiological understanding subscribe to the doctrine of original sin,[citation needed] which the Apostle Paul is claimed to have espoused in Romans 5:12-19 and which was popularized in the West and developed into a notion of "hereditary guilt" by Augustine of Hippo.
The North African bishop taught that God holds all the descendants of Adam and Eve accountable for Adam's sin of rebellion, and as such all people deserve God's wrath and condemnation apart from any actual sins they personally commit.[2]

In contradistinction, a view sometimes ascribed to Pelagius states that humans enter life as moral tabula rasae and responsible for their own moral nature.[citation needed] The Fall that occurred when Adam and Eve disobeyed God, according to Pelagianism, affected humankind only minimally as it established a negative moral precedent. Few contemporary theologians (especially thinkers in Augustinian traditions) and no orthodox theologians, however, continue to hold this hamartiological viewpoint.[citation needed]

A third branch of thinking takes an intermediate position, asserting that after the Fall human beings are naturally impacted by the sin of Adam such that they have inborn tendencies to rebel against God (which by personal choice all accountable humans, except Jesus, will choose or have chosen to indulge). This is the hamartiological position of the Eastern Christian churches, often called ancestral sin as opposed to original sin, but it is sometimes viewed as Semipelagian in the West.

.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Upvote 0

Cribstyl

Veteran
Jun 13, 2006
8,993
2,068
✟108,451.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Democrat
This type of theology always makes a mess of things . It doesn't matter what a word "literally" meant - it matters how the author was using the word to communicate their idea . When one starts using the "missing the mark" definition of sin , it demands a accurate identification of what the "mark" is . Without that , the origin of the word becomes useless for the topic .

Anyway , if you are looking at what the Scriptures say on the subject of the relationship between law and sin ( I am not saying that anyone needs to look at them ) , how about these passages ... ?


So, the question is what "law" means in each case .
You make sense NW, but we still cant change the definition of a word to suit our purpose. To know that Sin in both Hebrew and Greek means 'To miss a target' makes enough sense.
It is a big problem for those who believe that target is the law.
We can and will look at many passages that explore the relationship between law and sin as it unfolds in the scriptures.
 
Upvote 0

fhansen

Oldbie
Sep 3, 2011
16,139
4,029
✟397,402.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
From cover to cover, God's word reveals what we should understand from the pen of His prophets and chosen messengers.
I'm glad you cite Paul's epistle to the Romans, because that's where we can discover (tadaaaaa) "the doctrine of sin."

When we understand what it means to be created in the image of God. We can learn that Holiness, righteousness and love are among His foremost attributes.
To miss the mark, is to fall short of His character in us.

When we read about what caused God to send a flood. We should be moved to tears by what God has to say about humanity. It's similar to your mother saying; I regret the day that you was born.

Did God say they broke my law? or did He say; They did whatever was evil from their imagination?.
What's the purpose of distinguishing between the two? The Law simply defined evil imaginations.
 
Upvote 0

Cribstyl

Veteran
Jun 13, 2006
8,993
2,068
✟108,451.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Democrat
What's the purpose of distinguishing between the two? The Law simply defined evil imaginations.

Law by simple definition is "written rules". On the other hand, when we consider that Man 'falling away from the image of God' as 'missing the mark'. It suggest that every day without God, faith, prayers, prayer is sin (missing the mark). Every move without Godly motives is sin. (missing the mark)

Gen 6:5-13 articulates what we can and should say about the sins of men from creation that led to death by flood.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!
Site Supporter
May 19, 2015
125,550
28,531
74
GOD's country of Texas
Visit site
✟1,237,300.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Libertarian
Originally Posted by fhansen
What's the purpose of distinguishing between the two? The Law simply defined evil imaginations.
Law by simple definition is "written rules". when we consider that Man falling away from the image of God is missing the mark. It suggest that every day without God, faith, prayers, prayer is sin. Every move without Godly motives is sin.
All sin is not defined by law.
When Jesus commanded love to God and our neighbors, love is the right solution to reverse the darkness of sin.
You and/or others may be interested in this post concerning "the Law" and "the Faith"

http://www.christianforums.com/t7733160/#post62761421

Mat 23:23
`Wo to you, Scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites!
because ye give tithe of the mint, and the dill, and the cumin, and ye did neglect the weightier things of the Law -- the judgment, and the kindness, and the faith;
these it behoved [you] to do, and those not to neglect


.
 
Upvote 0

fhansen

Oldbie
Sep 3, 2011
16,139
4,029
✟397,402.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
You and/or others may be interested in this post concerning "the Law" and "the Faith"

http://www.christianforums.com/t7733160/#post62761421




.
I'm not sure where you're going with this. Matt 23 simply distinguishes the proper role of the law vs. the improper. The law should point us to mercy, justice, faithfulness, etc-this is true righteousness vs. mere legalism/observance by the letter, a false pride-based righteousness.
 
Upvote 0

Frogster

Galatians is the best!
Sep 7, 2009
44,343
3,067
✟81,817.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Widowed
Politics
US-Republican
What target did Adam miss?

Romans 5:12 KJVA


Wherefore , as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned :



So what?
All His works were finished before the foundation of this world.
We won't see the finished creation till the end of this world.
It's never been on us to hit the mark.
Oh and God wasn't surprised by Adam, so that He had to make some changes to those finished works. :cool:


What? :scratch:

Sin is transgression of the law.
The law is perfect and exposes sin.
The law was added because of transgressions.(SIN)
Yuh know, wake up call? :idea:

1 John 3:4 KJVA

Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Romans 6:16 KJVA

Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey ; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?


Romans 6:23 KJVA

For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. :amen:

ummmm...what do u think u proved here?:)

besides, the law was added to INCREASE the sin, in rom 5:20, INCREASE it says...
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Frogster

Galatians is the best!
Sep 7, 2009
44,343
3,067
✟81,817.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Widowed
Politics
US-Republican
Law by simple definition is "written rules". when we consider that Man falling away from the image of God is missing the mark. It suggest that every day without God, faith, prayers, prayer is sin. Every move without Godly motives is sin.

Gen 6:5-13 articulates what we can and should say about the sins of men that led to death by flood.

so a day of prayer makes on righteous?
 
Upvote 0

LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!
Site Supporter
May 19, 2015
125,550
28,531
74
GOD's country of Texas
Visit site
✟1,237,300.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Libertarian
Mat 23:23
`Wo to you, Scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites!
because ye give tithe of the mint, and the dill, and the cumin, and ye did neglect the weightier things of the Law -- the judgment, and the kindness, and the faith;
these it behoved [you] to do, and those not to neglect

I'm not sure where you're going with this. Matt 23 simply distinguishes the proper role of the law vs. the improper.
The law should point us to mercy, justice, faithfulness, etc-this is true righteousness vs. mere legalism/observance by the letter, a false pride-based righteousness.
Were they sinning by neglecting those other weightier matters of the Law?

Jhn 8:24
I said, therefore to you, that ye shall die in your sins,
for if ye may not believe that I am [he], ye shall die in your sins.'
http://www.christianforums.com/t7580094/
“Pharisaical" Legalism?

A Christian who wants to enforce moral code by enacting legislation is Legalistic, because they want to laws to cause correct behavior. Only mercy causes repentance. Romans 2:4 If they want a non-legalistic approach what they should do is have a law that declares something to be immoral but enforce it mercifully. Mercy is the only thing that will make the law work properly. The popular usage of Legalistic came into English probably because of 2 Corinthians 3:6 not in a written code but in the Spirit; for the written code kills, but the Spirit gives life.

The best example of not being legalistic is the written law of adultery vs. the spirit of the law. In the Bible the written penalty of adultery was death, however the priests and Levites didn't go around killing people. Death was deserved but not incurred. That is where we originally get the idea that the written penalty gives death, but the spirit of the law gives life. It sounds ironic, but if you think about it an adulterer was worthy of death, but execution would defeat the whole purpose of the law since there could be no repentance from a dead man. Killing them would be 'Legalistic', making the law ineffective.


.
 
Upvote 0

Frogster

Galatians is the best!
Sep 7, 2009
44,343
3,067
✟81,817.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Widowed
Politics
US-Republican
It's a secret to some people that the definition for Sin is not trangression of the law.
The Biblical terms for sin translated from Greek and Hebrew literally refer to missing a mark or target.

The bible at the beginning, tells that God created man is His image and after His likeness.


The bible did not tell us from the beginning that sin is trangression of a law.


(2Bcontinued) I had to keep my word and start this thread. :cool:

:wave:

lets rock-n-roll the law side of the isle!:D
 
Upvote 0