Evolution Denies - Please Refute this

[ThouShaltNotPoe]

He made it clear that the wisdom of man and this world is foolishness period.

Sad quote-mining again.

1) The Bible wasn't originally written in English, so beware of equivocation fallacies based upon ignorance of the Biblical text. ("Dad" needs to investigate "wisdom" in both Romans & Proverbs.)

2) The Bible does NOT consider SCIENCE and ITS KNOWLEDGE to be "foolishness period".

"It is to the glory of God to conceal a matter. It is to the glory of great men to search it out." is a Proverb which tells us about God's ENDORSEMENT OF SCIENTIFIC INVESTIGATION.

No, the Apostle Paul did NOT say that CALCULUS was foolishness. Nor does the Bible call medical science foolishness. Do I need to list all of the many things which the Bible praises as blessed by God (even though some Christians condemn them?) The Bible warns that some self-righteous ones would go about ranting "Unclean!" and "Do not touch!"

For discernment about what is foolishness, the Book of Proverbs tells us that "The fool MOCKS wisdom and knowledge." And "The mocker scorns instruction." Entire chapters of Proverbs PLEADS with the simpleton to "gain knowledge" and not to resist those who would teach you.

But just as the first century Pharisees attributed the wonderful works of God to SATAN instead, so do present-day Pharisees continue to mock that which God has done and that which God has declared good.

Of course, I hardly need to emphasize these well-known scriptures and what they say about FOOLS and the value of LEARNING ("instruction" in the KJV) --- because both Christians and non-Christians recognize the value of KNOWLEDGE and the folly of ignorance. It takes only a little discernment to recognize the foolishness of a LOVE OF IGNORANCE.

Dad, until you learn the meaning of EQUIVOCATION FALLACY, you'll continue to make those bombastic errors.

 

[dad]

Sad quote-mining again.

1) The Bible wasn't originally written in English, so beware of equivocation fallacies based upon ignorance of the Biblical text. ("Dad" needs to investigate "wisdom" in both Romans & Proverbs.)

2) The Bible does NOT consider SCIENCE and ITS KNOWLEDGE to be "foolishness period".

Yes it does. So called science is man's wisdom. And our job is to fight anything that exalts itself above the truth of God.

"It is to the glory of God to conceal a matter. It is to the glory of great men to search it out." is a Proverb which tells us about God's ENDORSEMENT OF SCIENTIFIC INVESTIGATION.

False spin on a verse. The way God reveals has nothing to do with the spirit of science so called, that denies Jesus and creation in every way.

No, the Apostle Paul did NOT say that CALCULUS was foolishness. Nor does the Bible call medical science foolishness. Do I need to list all of the many things which the Bible praises as blessed by God (even though some Christians condemn them?) The Bible warns that some self-righteous ones would go about ranting "Unclean!" and "Do not touch!"

Romans 1: 22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

For discernment about what is foolishness, the Book of Proverbs tells us that "The fool MOCKS wisdom and knowledge." And "The mocker scorns instruction." Entire chapters of Proverbs PLEADS with the simpleton to "gain knowledge" and not to resist those who would teach you.

False wisdom from bellow that denies creation is NOT instruction.

But just as the first century Pharisees attributed the wonderful works of God to SATAN instead, so do present-day Pharisees continue to mock that which God has done and that which God has declared good.

Does what God has done include the flood, and creation, and etc?

Dad, until you learn the meaning of EQUIVOCATION FALLACY, you'll continue to make those bombastic errors.

Try learning the meaning of 'out to lunch'.

 

[ThouShaltNotPoe]

The Bible warns that some self-righteous ones would go about ranting "Unclean!" and "Do not touch!"

Romans 1: 22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

Exactly! The very verse I had in mind. We agree!

 

[ThouShaltNotPoe]

.
Does what God has done include the flood, and creation, and etc?

Yes! God did those things!
(Dad is catching on after all. He even asked a question in an effort to LEARN!)

But why do you take so many of God's great creative works and attribute them to Satan?

The glory and credit for creation belongs to God alone. Learn from Professor Tertius' quotation below.


.

 

[dad]

The Bible warns that some self-righteous ones would go about ranting "Unclean!" and "Do not touch!"



Exactly! The very verse I had in mind. We agree!

Great. So how does that work, those that believe God are unclean in your book? What is it you think we should not touch exactly?

 

[dad]

Yes! God did those things!

Oh? A real worldwide flood that killed all men and animals on the planet??? A real creation that included man and woman and beasts and fish and birds and stars one week??

So why do you take so many of God's great creative works and attribute them to Satan?

Why breath out weird accusations? What are you talking about man?? What work of God where do you think I claimed Satan did??

The glory and credit for creation belongs to God alone.

Would that be the creation God told us about, or some present state godless so called science version of what we see in the earth or sky now?

 

[Mr Strawberry]

Right, I think that was obviious. The wisdom of God is foolishness to the world. A real side splitter.

Nope, you still haven't got it.

 

[dad]

Nope, you still haven't got it.

Actually there is no doubt about what the wisdom of the world is. It is just what it sounds like. Man's wisdom. God's wisdom is so so so much higher. Not many wise (of this world's wisdom) are chosen. God's wisdom is not connected to education of man. Real wisdom comes down from God.


Ac 4:13 -Now when they saw the boldness of Peter and John, and perceived that they were unlearned and ignorant men, they marvelled; and they took knowledge of them, that they had been with Jesus.


Joh 7:15 -And the Jews marvelled, saying, How knoweth this man letters, having never learned?

 

[Mr Strawberry]

You still haven't realised what my comment was about but never mind. You're off on one of your ego driven rants again, which brings us to this beauty:

God's wisdom is so so so much higher. Not many wise (of this world's wisdom) are chosen. God's wisdom is not connected to education of man. Real wisdom comes down from God.

I seriously doubt many people of faith would feel happy holding you up as an example of any sort of higher wisdom. You speak only for dad and your posts are full of the all too human character flaws of conceit and subjective bias for anyone but you to take seriously.

 

[dad]

S

2) The Bible does NOT consider SCIENCE and ITS KNOWLEDGE to be "foolishness period".

"It is to the glory of God to conceal a matter. It is to the glory of great men to search it out." is a Proverb which tells us about God's ENDORSEMENT OF SCIENTIFIC INVESTIGATION.

The "scientific investigation' you chose to translate some thousands of years old proverb might have been fine!

Maybe looking at the wonder of an ant, or other creatures created by God! To try to hijack that to mean we must accept God opposing baseless lies falsely called science is simply evidence of not being familiar with truth.

No, the Apostle Paul did NOT say that CALCULUS was foolishness.

You claiming there was calculus in his day?? Do you think it was his learning that saved him from the deadly snake bite? Did any of his learning deal with claiming the universe was NOT created by God and that man and woman were not created by God? No.

Nor does the Bible call medical science foolishness.

The woman who suffered many things at the hands of physicians did not get healed by them! None of the great multitudes of whom Jesus healed them ALL were healed by medo quackery! Man's wisdom is foolishness compared to God!! In EVERY field, every way, and especially science and modern education! You demo that.

Do I need to list all of the many things which the Bible praises as blessed by God (even though some Christians condemn them?)

No idea what you are talking about, or how it would apply to anything to do with chromosomes.

The Bible warns that some self-righteous ones would go about ranting "Unclean!" and "Do not touch!"

That's nice. Something you think we should or should not touch here? Sounds loony to me.

For discernment about what is foolishness, the Book of Proverbs tells us that "The fool MOCKS wisdom and knowledge." And "The mocker scorns instruction." Entire chapters of Proverbs PLEADS with the simpleton to "gain knowledge" and not to resist those who would teach you.

No knowledge from God would have anything to do with casting doubt on God or creation or His word. Guess who specialized in that from the garden?? This is news??

But just as the first century Pharisees attributed the wonderful works of God to SATAN instead, so do present-day Pharisees continue to mock that which God has done and that which God has declared good.

Name one of the works you allude to?? No idea what you are talking about...I suspect you mean that man's godless coloring of evidence and same state past based dreams are supposed to be worshiped as 'knowledge'?

Of course, I hardly need to emphasize these well-known scriptures and what they say about FOOLS and the value of LEARNING ("instruction" in the KJV) --- because both Christians and non-Christians recognize the value of KNOWLEDGE and the folly of ignorance. It takes only a little discernment to recognize the foolishness of a LOVE OF IGNORANCE.

To know God and His word is knowledge. To believe godless fables opposing it is ignorance.

Dad, until you learn the meaning of EQUIVOCATION FALLACY, you'll continue to make those bombastic errors.

What is the meaning, then? Let's see how clever the concept is! Oh, and do you believe in actual angel beings that can appear as men..YES or NO?

 

[dad]

I seriously doubt many people of faith would feel happy holding you up as an example of any sort of higher wisdom.

I might ask to see what they do hold up!

2Co 10:5 -Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;

You speak only for dad and your posts are full of the all too human character flaws

You thought I was an angel!!?

of conceit and subjective bias for anyone but you to take seriously.

In other words I do not swallow godless drivel that some have insisted on calling science. Busted they be, and busted they'll stay. Amen.


The only attitude believers should have toward so called science is this....


1 Sam 17 :45 Then said David to the Philistine, Thou comest to me with a sword, and with a spear, and with a shield: but I come to thee in the name of the LORD of hosts, the God of the armies of Israel, whom thou hast defied. 46 This day will the LORD deliver [SIZE=-1][/SIZE]thee into mine hand; and I will smite thee, and take thine head from thee; and I will give the carcases of the host of the Philistines this day unto the fowls of the air, and to the wild beasts of the earth; that all the earth may know that there is a God in Israel. 47 And all this assembly shall know that the LORD saveth not with sword and spear: for the battle is the LORD'S, and he will give you into our hands.





Zec 4:6 -Then he answered and spake unto me, saying, This is the word of the LORD unto Zerubbabel, saying, Not by might, nor by power, but by my spirit, saith the LORD of hosts.

 

[verysincere]

And our job is to fight anything that exalts itself above the truth of God.

Agreed! And that is why you get so much opposition from BOTH believer and non-believers. Your repetitive exalting of your cherished TRADITIONS over and above the Scriptures, as well as YOURSELF offends all who care about knowledge and God's wisdom. Most here will not tolerate someone presuming to teach while being ignorant of God's Bible and God's creation. Most non-believers respect what the Book of Proverbs says about those who mock instruction and who refuse to learn.

 

[verysincere]

So why do you take so many of God's great creative works and attribute them to Satan?​

Why breath out weird accusations? What are you talking about man?? What work of God where do you think I claimed Satan did??

In response to the magnificent evidence which God the Creator so profusely provided for us in his Book of Creation---where he tells us of his wondrously effective evolutionary processes for the adapting and diversifying life on this planet over billions of years---you attributed these praiseworthy creative acts of God to Satan. In that you followed the example of the first century Pharisees who instead of praising God for the wonders which Jesus had performed, they fumed with anger and said that SATAN was behind all the evidence they saw.

 

[verysincere]

I seriously doubt many people of faith would feel happy holding you up as an example of any sort of higher wisdom. You speak only for dad and your posts are full of the all too human character flaws of conceit and subjective bias for anyone but you to take seriously.

And Mr. Strawberry, we who are Bible-affirming followers of Jesus Christ very much appreciate and thank you warmly for recognizing that such nonsense and conceit has NOTHING TO DO with the teachings of Jesus nor the Bible in general. We thank you very much that you don't treat that kind of deplorable behavior as representative of those of us who seek to live more and more like Christ taught us to live. So many of the atheists and agnostics here have been very gracious and fair toward us in not blaming all Christians for a few "atypical" and unstable inidviduals"[I'm being as polite as I can] who use the name without respecting what God tells us through his Book of Creation and his Book of Scriptures.

 

[dad]

Agreed! And that is why you get so much opposition from BOTH believer and non-believers.

I do? I don't recall any serious opposition. Most of it is worthless empty posts like from you.

Your repetitive exalting of your cherished TRADITIONS over and above the Scriptures,

Believing the bible is not tradition, it is a command.

as well as YOURSELF offends all who care about knowledge and God's wisdom.

If the truth kills.....

Most here will not tolerate someone presuming to teach while being ignorant of God's Bible and God's creation.

You speak for most now? I would have though you spoke for a fraction of the nommies!

Most non-believers respect what the Book of Proverbs says about those who mock instruction and who refuse to learn.

I learn plenty and resist the proud mockers.


So do you believe in actual angels that have appeared as men, yes or no?

 

[dad]

In response to the magnificent evidence which God the Creator so profusely provided for us in his Book of Creation---where he tells us of his wondrously effective evolutionary processes for the adapting and diversifying life on this planet over billions of years--

The adapting did not take long as believers know. That is not on your side. It is in my back pocket.

-you attributed these praiseworthy creative acts of God to Satan.

False. Your vague glib professions of 'creation' needed to be fleshed out. Now we can see you mean demonic evolution, with no God involved in any way the bible says at all. Thanks for that. Lurkers....have a gander at that!!!

In that you followed the example of the first century Pharisees who instead of praising God for the wonders which Jesus had performed, they fumed with anger and said that SATAN was behind all the evidence they saw.

They saw Jesus, so that was blasphemy. When I point out the doctrines of devils and age old diabolical doubts of Satan incarnated into the modern form of so called science, I do so with accuracy and authority from the Almighty.

I can tell the lurkers that God's word is true and God is not a liar like some would try to paint Him as. Adam really was created as was Eve, and not some slop fest of an evolutionary process advocated by the 'God didn't reaallllly do it' crowd!

 

[loktai]

Dad - you still have not refuted the OP. You have still just spouted nonesense and provided nothing to back it up, other than your own assertions.

The challenge still stands.

 

[dad]

Dad - you still have not refuted the OP. You have still just spouted nonesense and provided nothing to back it up, other than your own assertions.

The challenge still stands.

I do not recall my direct address to the OP was answered? From post 35

"Looking at a creation site, apparently they are not so overwhelmed as you.

"This molecular model involves the hypothetical fusion of two small acrocentric chimpanzee-like chromosomes (2A and 2B) at some ancient point in the human evolutionary lineage. Our analysis of the available genomic data shows that the sequence features encompassing the purported chromosome 2 fusion site are too ambiguous to accurately infer a fusion event. The data actually suggest that the core ~800 bp region containing the fusion site is not a unique cryptic and degenerate head-to-head fusion of telomeres, but a distinct motif that is represented throughout the human genome with no orthologous counterpart in the chimpanzee genome on either chromosome 2A or 2B. The DNA sequence evidence for a purported inactivated cryptic centromere site on chromosome 2, supposedly composed of centromeric alphoid repeats, is even more ambiguous and untenable than the case for a fusion site. The alphoid sequences in this region are quite variable and do not cluster with known functional human centromeric sequences. In addition, no ortholog for a cryptic centromere homologous to the alphoid sequence at human chromosome 2 exists on chimpanzee chromosomes 2A and 2B."
"
Our DNA sequence analysis confirmed conclusions reached by Fan et al. The putative fusion site is ‘highly degenerate’ and a vague shadow of what should be present given the model proposed.15 One of the major problems with the fusion model is that, within the 20- to 30-kb window of DNA sequence surrounding the hypothetical fusion site, there is a glaring paucity of telomeric repeats, and those that are present are mostly independent monomers, not tandem repeats. In fact, many of the motifs in the 30-kb region surrounding the putative 2qfus site are not only isolated monomers, but are separated by up to several thousand bases of DNA.
Even while completely disregarding a consensus 6-base reading frame when iterating through the repeats, for the left (plus strand) side of the fusion site, there are only 34 intact TTAGGG motifs (table 1). This analysis uses a generous allowance of 92,690 bases to the left of the fusion site where the first TTAGGG repeat is found on BAC RP11-395L14, well beyond the size of any normal human telomere. Based on the predicted model, thousands of intact TTAGGG motifs in tandem should exist. This is true even if allowing for an extremely high rate of degeneracy, which is an unreasonable expectation because meiotic recombination is suppressed in pericentric DNA due to its close proximity to the centromere. Recombination, the most likely theoretical source of sequence shuffling leading to the fusion site degeneration would therefore be less of consideration. Also, based on the predicted model, little, if any TTAGGG motifs should exist on the plus strand to the right of the fusion site. However, 18 intact TTAGGG motifs are found on the right of the fusion site; 35% of the total number of TTAGGG motifs located within a generous 156,911 base window surrounding the fusion site."


Chromosome 2 Fusion 2


"

-- As we can see, some have a differing opinion of what is going on...so we need to look at the basics here first....




Perhaps you could start by defining 'fusion' in your own words...and describe what causes the fusion....etc?

 

[loktai]

Why do I need to define fusion in my own words? I posted a video and asked people to refute the content within. My individual definition of fusion has no bearing on the information contained within the OP.

I'm not getting into silly word games over this. Use a dictionary if you are unsure of the meaning.

Anyway on to your article.

"A fairly thorough and complete 614 kb (614,000 bases) annotated genomic landscape was constructed that encompasses the fusion site and was published by a lab in several related reports shortly after the initial first working draft of the human genome project."

I have several issues with this.

Firsty: "Was published by a lab" - which lab? They are a little wishy washy on the details, which leads me to believe they may not be telling the entire truth, as is so often seen in creation science circles.

Secondly they say they are working from a fairly thorough and complete genomic landscape. Which was published shortly after the first draft of the Genome.

Well... this first draft was published in 2000, while the project was not declared completed until 2003. Human Genome Project - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

How you can you draw any concrete conclusions when working from drafts and incomplete data that is 'fairly thorough'. Hardly using the scientific method here...

Thirdly. They kindly note that data is available for public download, yet fail to provide a link to said download.

Here is how it should be done: 2005 Release: Scientists Analyze Chromosomes 2 and 4

This link mentions the data used, then kindly provides links so you can go and look for yourself, instead of trying to hide it and hope you are gullible enough to believe what is written.

Seriously, is this the best you can come up with?

 

[Split Rock]

When I point out the doctrines of devils and age old diabolical doubts of Satan incarnated into the modern form of so called science, I do so with accuracy and authority from the Almighty.

You have no "authority" from God or anyone else! You may see yourself as God's One True Prophet here, but the rest of us know that this is a fantasy and that you are deluded.

I can tell the lurkers that God's word is true and God is not a liar like some would try to paint Him as. Adam really was created as was Eve, and not some slop fest of an evolutionary process advocated by the 'God didn't reaallllly do it' crowd!

The lurkers either just shake their head at your delusions of grandeur, or simply laugh at you. Show me one lurker that you have won over for God.... just one, dad.