Mar 22: they are at it again

[Strong in Him]

It's like I've said before (even earlier today): for some Christians trying to predict and calculate Christ's coming, abiding by all sorts of conspiracy theories and heretical beliefs is literally the entire Christian faith for them. It's an addiction of sorts, and to leave that life and that worldview behind would be tantamount to abandoning Christianity in their minds.

Yes, I agree. Good post - and your other one.

 

[Strong in Him]

I'm talking about prophecy bro. How can people deny the reality of things which are happening in the world which is currently around us,which line up exactly with what there Bibles have been declaring is going to happen for 2000 years??

Because
a) it's all a matter of interpretation. People believe in the millenium, or not; in a rapture, or not; that X is the antichrist, or not etc etc, and all these views come from Scripture. People have said that certain events indicate a specific day for Christ's return - all the dates predicted so far have come and gone. No doubt those people are spending their time recalculating and reinterpreting, and will at some point come up with more days and dates. They will urge us to accept them and believe because "it's all been prophesied".

b) it's quite possible that they have all happened at other times in history. I'm quite sure that if I had lived through either of the world wars, with bombs falling all around me, I would have said that the end was coming too - and for some people, it did. "Nation shall rise up against nation" - well that certainly happened in the world wars, yet we're all still here.

Why does it matter? Seriously. Our Lord Jesus told us to be ready and commanded us to make disciples. The angels told the apostles off after the ascension - "why do you stand ther looking into the sky? This same Jesus ..........will return in the same way you saw him go." In other words, Jesus will return; you don't need to stand there looking for signs. And in fact we shouldn't; there's work to be done.

 

[Strong in Him]

Watch this! The Lord Himself tells us to watch...

The Lord of the Flies is on Fire - YouTube

Not youtube, he doesn't.

 

[Strong in Him]

I just showed you how Daniel 12 tells us not just the year (within a year or two) but the day (within a day or two) of the return of the Lord.

According to your interpretation.

I'm sorry you can't see it. It says only the wise will understand, after all.

Besides being rather insulting, this sounds dangerously like Gnosticism - make a statement and then say "well, only the wise will be able to understand."
What does Paul say? That God chose the foolish of the world to confound the wise (1 Cor 1:20, 27)

. 12 Blessed is the one who waits for and reaches the end of the 1,335 days. (THIS TELLS YOU THE DAY - WITHIN A DAY OR TWO)

13 “As for you, go your way till the end. You will rest, and then at the end of the days you will rise to receive your allotted inheritance.”

So tell us the date then - exact day and year, in plain English.

If it happens on that day, we'll know you were correct - if not, we'll know it wasn't as obvious as you thought.

 

[dysert]

Like the "reality" that London was going to be bombed during the Olympics? That a massive disaster was on the way because someone had "seen" it on a playing card??

What exactly is going to happen a week on Friday? Just so that I don't waste time in triviality, like washing the kitchen floor, or something more serious, like doing my essay on evangelism?

I posted it a while back, but according to the video what he's claiming will happen is:
- The AoD occurs (but none of the video's proponents has defined exactly what that is)
- A flood will occur in Israel
- The Jews will begin a mass exodus

According to the video, there won't be any ambiguity surrounding whether 3/22/13 marks the mid-point of the trib. (Which is odd, since we're not in the trib yet anyway.)

 

[Strong in Him]

I posted it a while back, but according to the video what he's claiming will happen is:
- The AoD occurs (but none of the video's proponents has defined exactly what that is)
- A flood will occur in Israel
- The Jews will begin a mass exodus

According to the video, there won't be any ambiguity surrounding whether 3/22/13 marks the mid-point of the trib. (Which is odd, since we're not in the trib yet anyway.)

Ok, thanks.
I wait with baited breath - or not.

 

[RDKirk]

it's quite possible that they have all happened at other times in history. I'm quite sure that if I had lived through either of the world wars, with bombs falling all around me, I would have said that the end was coming too - and for some people, it did. "Nation shall rise up against nation" - well that certainly happened in the world wars, yet we're all still here.

I suspect they said it when Nero began the first serious persecution of Christians (in fact, John did say it then).

I suspect they said it in the 70AD siege of Jerusalem when the temple was sacked and destroyed and Titus really was an "abomination that causes desolation."

I suspect they said it in 410 when Alaric sacked a Rome that had already converted to Christianity.

Why does it matter? Seriously. Our Lord Jesus told us to be ready and commanded us to make disciples. The angels told the apostles off after the ascension - "why do you stand there looking into the sky? This same Jesus ..........will return in the same way you saw him go." In other words, Jesus will return; you don't need to stand there looking for signs. And in fact we shouldn't; there's work to be done.

The key is not to "stand" looking at the sky. When a farmer is harvesting in the fields, yes, he does take note of the sky because he knows he has a lot of work to get done before the weather breaks. But he doesn't stand there looking at the sky--he's busy with the harvest.

 

[Strong in Him]

I suspect they said it when Nero began the first serious persecution of Christians (in fact, John did say it then).

I suspect they said it in the 70AD siege of Jerusalem when the temple was sacked and destroyed and Titus really was an "abomination that causes desolation."

I suspect they said it in 410 when Alaric sacked a Rome that had already converted to Christianity.

Quite likely. Even the apostles thought that the Lord was going to return again soon - in their lifetime. People have been trying to predict it ever since.

The key is not to "stand" looking at the sky. When a farmer is harvesting in the fields, yes, he does take note of the sky because he knows he has a lot of work to get done before the weather breaks. But he doesn't stand there looking at the sky--he's busy with the harvest.

Yes, but I sometimes feel that, metaphorically speaking, that's just what some people ARE doing - or maybe not so much standing looking at the sky, but sitting with their noses in the book of Daniel and a calculator nearby.

The Lord IS returning, and maybe there isn't a lot of time - so why aren't we all out there trying to reach as many as we can?

 

[Bethwhite]

Quite likely. Even the apostles thought that the Lord was going to return again soon - in their lifetime. People have been trying to predict it ever since.



Yes, but I sometimes feel that, metaphorically speaking, that's just what some people ARE doing - or maybe not so much standing looking at the sky, but sitting with their noses in the book of Daniel and a calculator nearby.

The Lord IS returning, and maybe there isn't a lot of time - so why aren't we all out there trying to reach as many as we can?

Some people are called to understand eschatology, and some aren't.

If an angel revealed what is written in heaven regarding the last 3500 years of human history, would you want to know about it and understand it?

 

[SeraphimsCherub]

Not youtube, he doesn't.

Well you let me know how else you expect to "See",and "Hear" "all these things" coming to pass? You certainly are not going to hear the TRUTH through the mainstream media! That's why GOD blessed HIS people the source of YOUTUBE...SO THAT IN THE LAST DAYS HIS PEOPLE WOULD BE ABLE TO SEE WHATS TRULY GOING ON.
Mat 24:33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.

Oh..but I bet you would believe it if it came on TRINITY BROADCASTE NETWORK. LOL

 

[Strong in Him]

Some people are called to understand eschatology, and some aren't.

Fine. It can't be that important though, or the Lord would clearly reveal it to ALL his children and make sure we ALL understood.

 

[SeraphimsCherub]

Mar_8:21 And he said unto them, How is it that ye do not understand?

Luk_12:56 Ye hypocrites, ye can discern the face of the sky and of the earth; but how is it that ye do not discern this time?

 

[SeraphimsCherub]

Fine. It can't be that important though, or the Lord would clearly reveal it to ALL his children and make sure we ALL understood.

What do you think we are doing in the face of the constant scorn we get?? But you,and others like you just close your ears and your eyes to every thing we have to say. Find out if what we are saying is true. We make mistakes{We're human} but we are learning more.,and more as we go. The SPIRIT OF GRACE leads us,and washes away the mistakes of our flesh with HIS BLOOD. And we move forward in the process of
"LEARNING" the "TRUTH".

 

[Bethwhite]

Fine. It can't be that important though, or the Lord would clearly reveal it to ALL his children and make sure we ALL understood.

LOL

Well, you can see for yourself:

Daniel 12:9 He replied, “Go your way, Daniel, because the words are rolled up and sealed until the time of the end. 10 Many will be purified, made spotless and refined, but the wicked will continue to be wicked. None of the wicked will understand, but those who are wise will understand.

You can understand it if you seek God. And yes, it's important. Everything God says is important, especially when He allows an angel to reveal what is written in the book of Truth in heaven.

 

[Strong in Him]

Well you let me know how else you expect to "See",and "Hear" "all these things" coming to pass?

Err, maybe through the word of God or witness of the Spirit?
And if not, have you ever thought that maybe we aren't meant to understand some things - just to obey the Great Commission, make disciples, and trust in the Lord?

That's why GOD blessed HIS people the source of YOUTUBE...SO THAT IN THE LAST DAYS HIS PEOPLE WOULD BE ABLE TO SEE WHATS TRULY GOING ON.

Oh Please!!! Really?
Youtube has now surpassed the word of the Lord, has it? God can't speak through his word, his Spirit, his people etc so he has to resort to youtube? The Lord can USE anything - I don't accept that it's his main method of communication though.

And at the risk of rehashing the argument - the scaremongering yotube clips and teaching about the olympics was massively and spectacularly wrong. Even that bloke who came up with lots of Bible verses about the potter's field and so on which were supposed to "prove" that something would happen at the opening ceremony, probably feels a bit of an idiot now.

Mat 24:33So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near,evenat the doors.

It is not correct to quote that verse and apply it to youtube.

Oh..but I bet you would believe it if it came on TRINITY BROADCASTE NETWORK. LOL

No idea what Trinity Broadcast network is. I wouldn't believe it even if it came on the BBC, was reported in the Times newspaper and announced by the queen, the PM and President of the Methodist conference himself.

 

[Strong in Him]

LOL

Well, you can see for yourself:

Daniel 12:9 He replied, “Go your way, Daniel, because the words are rolled up and sealed until the time of the end. 10 Many will be purified, made spotless and refined, but the wicked will continue to be wicked. None of the wicked will understand, but those who are wise will understand.

You can understand it if you seek God. And yes, it's important. Everything God says is important, especially when He allows an angel to reveal what is written in the book of Truth in heaven.

Except that this is NOT clear, plain teaching. People look at this passage, and others, and come up with all sorts of meanings for them.
There are those - like Harold Camping - who say they have studied these things for a long time; who will give chapter and verse to back up what they are saying, and use reasoned arguments. They have all been wrong. Some people believed harold Camping completely, and are probably trying to rebuild their lives after losing all their savings - assuming they haven't been completely put off Christianity and lost their faith.

If there is a clear prophecy in Daniel 12 that something will happen on a certain date, then it will. If it doesn't happen when it is "supposed" to. then it is not the Bible or the Lord who is in the wrong.

 

[SeraphimsCherub]

Err, maybe through the word of God or witness of the Spirit?
And if not, have you ever thought that maybe we aren't meant to understand some things - just to obey the Great Commission, make disciples, and trust in the Lord?



Oh Please!!! Really?
Youtube has now surpassed the word of the Lord, has it? God can't speak through his word, his Spirit, his people etc so he has to resort to youtube? The Lord can USE anything - I don't accept that it's his main method of communication though.

And at the risk of rehashing the argument - the scaremongering yotube clips and teaching about the olympics was massively and spectacularly wrong. Even that bloke who came up with lots of Bible verses about the potter's field and so on which were supposed to "prove" that something would happen at the opening ceremony, probably feels a bit of an idiot now.



It is not correct to quote that verse and apply it to youtube.



No idea what Trinity Broadcast network is. I wouldn't believe it even if it came on the BBC, was reported in the Times newspaper and announced by the queen, the PM and President of the Methodist conference himself.

Why do you bother wasting your time in a freaking Eschatology thread if you don't want to know what's going on,and don't believe we're really suppose to know what's going on?? But we LOVE THE GIFT OF THE LOVE GOD HAS GIVEN us TO EXPLORE ESCHATOLOGY!

 

[Bethwhite]

Except that this is NOT clear, plain teaching. People look at this passage, and others, and come up with all sorts of meanings for them.
There are those - like Harold Camping - who say they have studied these things for a long time; who will give chapter and verse to back up what they are saying, and use reasoned arguments. They have all been wrong. Some people believed harold Camping completely, and are probably trying to rebuild their lives after losing all their savings - assuming they haven't been completely put off Christianity and lost their faith.

If there is a clear prophecy in Daniel 12 that something will happen on a certain date, then it will. If it doesn't happen when it is "supposed" to. then it is not the Bible or the Lord who is in the wrong.

It is clearer than you think.

Check it out:

Based on Revelation 20, when does this particular resurrection occur?

Daniel 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.


If people are being resurrected to shame and everlasting contempt, that's the final resurrection at the end of the 1000 years in Revelation 20.









Now, check this out:



3 And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.
4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.
5 Then I Daniel looked, and, behold, there stood other two, the one on this side of the bank of the river, and the other on that side of the bank of the river.
6 And one said to the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, How long shall it be to the end of these wonders?
7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half

We just established that the end "of these wonders" was the resurrection at the end of the millennium. So what is the beginning "of these wonders"?

Go back to the beginning where the angel began the story as written in the Book of Truth in heaven:

Daniel 11:Also I in the first year of Darius the Mede, even I, stood to confirm and to strengthen him.2 And now will I shew thee the truth. Behold, there shall stand up yet three kings in Persia; and the fourth shall be far richer than they all: and by his strength through his riches he shall stir up all against the realm of Grecia.


From our perspective, we can look back on history and see when this was:

Darius I - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

His reign ended in 486BC. Some sources say 487BC.



So, from 486-487BC to 13/14AD is 500 years (1/2 a time)
from 13/14AD to 2013/2014 is 2000 years (times)
from 2013/2014 to 3013/3014 is 1000 years (time)
for a total of 3500 years.

 

[Strong in Him]

What do you think we are doing in the face of the constant scorn we get??

You are not the Lord. You are telling us why you believe certain events will happen based on certain verse; others in the eschatology forum tell us why they believe certain things WON'T happen, also based on certain verses.

If the end time events were clear and indisputable; surely everyone would agree?

But you,and others like you just close your ears and your eyes to every thing we have to say.

SOME of what you have had to say has already been proved wrong; the rest of it I don't understand for the reason I gave above - everyoine says different things; all based on Scripture.

Find out if what we are saying is true.

The only way to really test and see if it is true is if it happens. So far, it hasn't.

We make mistakes{We're human} but we are learning more.,and more as we go.

Maybe you are. I'm sticking with the two things that I DO know for a fact;
1) Jesus will return sometime.
2) Jesus said that only the Father knows the time of his return.

Supposing I said to you that I accepted that something is going to happen on March 22nd and the Lord will return soon afterwards; what then? I believe I am ready now; what should I do with my remaining time? Witness for Jesus? Tell others about the love, grace and salvation of God? I'm doing that already - as best I can.
What does it matter if I believe in a certain date, or don't believe? It's how I live for the Lord, and continue to dwell in him that's important.

 

[SeraphimsCherub]

You are not the Lord. You are telling us why you believe certain events will happen based on certain verse; others in the eschatology forum tell us why they believe certain things WON'T happen, also based on certain verses.

If the end time events were clear and indisputable; surely everyone would agree?



SOME of what you have had to say has already been proved wrong; the rest of it I don't understand for the reason I gave above - everyoine says different things; all based on Scripture.



The only way to really test and see if it is true is if it happens. So far, it hasn't.



Maybe you are. I'm sticking with the two things that I DO know for a fact;
1) Jesus will return sometime.
2) Jesus said that only the Father knows the time of his return.

Supposing I said to you that I accepted that something is going to happen on March 22nd and the Lord will return soon afterwards; what then? I believe I am ready now; what should I do with my remaining time? Witness for Jesus? Tell others about the love, grace and salvation of God? I'm doing that already - as best I can.
What does it matter if I believe in a certain date, or don't believe? It's how I live for the Lord, and continue to dwell in him that's important.

GOD speaks through people. Even you...you make lot's of good points. I take everything into consideration. GOD'S WILL IS DONE,AND IS BEING DONE,AND WILL FOREVER CONTINUE TO BE DONE, NO MATTER WHAT A LITTLE NAT SUCH AS me HAS TO SAY.