No such thing as free will.

[cygnusx1]

Upset ! Keh

Listen up ryansbro. I do not understand Pointcares conjecture. Neither the finer points of Laplace transforms. Yet I am not upset. So please do not use that aspersion trick, OK.

I do not understand the electron wave/particle paradox either. I have NEVER said or implied these or any thing else 'cannot be'. You are wasting readers time with that diatribe.

In fact, ryansbro, several times I have posted support for Charles Spurgeon and his sermon where he PLAINLY states the paradox is in scripture so must he preach both. Spurgeon got a lot of flak for that as he was a Calvinist. Bizarrely I get a lot of flak form Calvinist for supporting a Calvinist.

In essence I think a lot of Calvinist are so focused that they become blinkered. God ordains ALL thing. Then no he does not ordain mans sin but he ordains all things. Net result, the church suffers. And NO, that does not mean I am selling Arminianism or any thing like that.

Bottom line:

It is a paradox ( Spurgeon, Apostle Paul, Calvin some times)
No it is not ( e.g Cx1)

Who is right ?

I already told you you would regret agreeing with the Geneva article which you were delighted with , I said you needed to read it more carefully because the foreordination of sin is a standard of the Reformed faith , remember the article from Genevan website stated God decreed sin by a permissive decree , which is not a bare permission .

I know of no Calvinist or Calvinist creed that denies God ordains all things , we don't believe in part time sovereignty , if you are having trouble with the concept of a permissive decree I would be willing to talk about it some more.

 

[JackSparrow]

if you are having trouble with the concept of a permissive decree I would be willing to talk about it some more.

I am having trouble with this big time.

Talk loads

 

[all2Jesus]

^ all of a sudden a new poster arrives ..... Mmmmmmmm number of posts 1

Just using my free will..... Mmmmmmmmmmm

Is this a closed discussion for those with a certain amount of posts?

 

[Arcoe]

You know, its funny, in nearly 51 years I have never met one single "Christian" who told me that they were walking one day and all of a sudden decided on thier own "free will" to accept, believe, and repent.

God Bless

Till all are one.

Romans 10:14

 

[All Souls]

Humans do have free will

 

[cygnusx1]

if you are having trouble with the concept of a permissive decree I would be willing to talk about it some more.

I am having trouble with this big time.

Talk loads

Gods will in permitting man to sin does not force a man to sin , there are multiple causes at play for why a man sins , God , Satan , Sin , Temptation and weakness are all causes for mans sin .

Take for example King David , was it a sin for David to number the people ? Yes or no .

 

[cygnusx1]

Humans do have free will

That is like saying "humans are Ok " ...... It is open to a host of definitions , some right some wrong and some ridiculous

 

[JackSparrow]

Just using my free will..... Mmmmmmmmmmm

Is this a closed discussion for those with a certain amount of posts?

Please could you Ident yourself a bit more. the issue is some posters log in with multple accounts to try and swing a debate, CX1 things you and I are the same person. I would be extremely grateful if you would prove otherwise to keep a genuine debate just that. Whether you agree, disagree is immaterial. Just want to be transparent.

Thanks

 

[cygnusx1]

Just using my free will..... Mmmmmmmmmmm

Is this a closed discussion for those with a certain amount of posts?

Well I began to think it was a closed discussion when I was told to go away

 

[Arcoe]

Free will prayers are as rare as white elephants

James must have seen plenty white elephants walking around Jerusalem.

James 4:3
Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts.

 

[All Souls]

That is like saying "humans are Ok " ...... It is open to a host of definitions , some right some wrong and some ridiculous

Humans are indeed ok; we can choose the good, we can choose the bad, and sometimes we choose the ugly.

 

[JackSparrow]

Gods will in permitting man to sin does not force a man to sin , there are multiple causes at play for why a man sins , God , Satan , Sin , Temptation and weakness are all causes for mans sin .

Take for example King David , was it a sin for David to number the people ? Yes or no .

Lots more please.

 

[All Souls]

Ok, so I was being cheeky! My view is that:

(1) God not only created this world ex nihilo but can (and at times does) intervene unilaterally in earthly affairs.

(2) God chose to create us with incompatibilistic (libertarian) freedom – freedom over which he cannot exercise total control.

(3) God so values freedom – the moral integrity of free creatures and a world in which such integrity is possible – that he does not normally override such freedom, even if he sees that it is producing undesirable results.

(4) God always desires our highest good, both individually and corporately, and thus is affected by what happens in our lives.

(5) God does not posses exhaustive knowledge of exactly how we utilize our freedom, although he may well at times be able to predict with great accuracy the choices we will freely make.

 

[cygnusx1]

Please could you Ident yourself a bit more. the issue is some posters log in with multple accounts to try and swing a debate, CX1 things you and I are the same person. I would be extremely grateful if you would prove otherwise to keep a genuine debate just that. Whether you agree, disagree is immaterial. Just want to be transparent.

Thanks

Thanks Jack , because of the issue of socks , multiple accounts , I don't even welcome new friends who send me a message saying they want to be a friend , it kinda ruined much of CF for me , all new posters are held with a large degree of suspicion which is just a shame , from the actions of one many suffer.

 

[Arcoe]

Does man have a will?

Certainly.

How free is that will?

That is what the debate is all about.

God Bless

Till all are one.

If God ordains everything that shall ever come to pass, then man has NO free will at all, yet you say he does.

 

[cygnusx1]

Humans are indeed ok; we can choose the good, we can choose the bad, and sometimes we choose the ugly.

If humans were ok would they need saving ?

If humans are ok would they ever be damned ?

 

[cygnusx1]

Lots more please.

So did David sin ? In numbering the people ......

 

[All Souls]

If humans were ok would they need saving ?

We need to be saved from existence, which the Christ brought about as New Being.

 

[JackSparrow]

Thanks Jack , because of the issue of socks , multiple accounts , I don't even welcome new friends who send me a message saying they want to be a friend , it kinda ruined much of CF for me , all new posters are held with a large degree of suspicion which is just a shame , from the actions of one many suffer.

I have had a 'female' PMing for a date.
I did not mention this to my wife.

 

[cygnusx1]

If God ordains everything that shall ever come to pass, then man has NO free will at all, yet you say he does.

Freedom , means freedom from something .... Specifics help