No such thing as free will.

[JackSparrow]

Many here on CF are adamant that man does not have any free will. I think most would agree that man does not have total free will but enough to be responsible for his own sin.

On another thread the Confession have be quoted which state that God is not the author of sin though he ordains ALL things. Is this a contradiction ?

On yet another thread or two a debate has be going on as to whether permissive will is just that or is it still just God's decretive will. Even if man had a 'limited menu', does this make God a risk taker ? E,g

If humans can choose to do whatever regardless of Gods will then certainly the result has to be a risk taking God ?

Did God risk Adam sinning in Eden ?

Then was it certain what Adam would do .......

However

If there is no such thing as freewill then everything is determined I.e

Theistic Fatalism.


Right/wrong ?

 

[JackSparrow]

Not quite on topic but most threads contain a lot of straw men an "you think... therefore" statements. Here is a link which details what John Wesley and James Arminius ACTUALLY believed and taught. Worth reading, especially the part

"Sir, I understand that you are called an Arminian; and I have been sometimes called a Calvinist; and therefore I suppose we are to draw daggers...."


http://www.imarc.cc/esecurity/arminius.html

 

[cygnusx1]

Many here on CF are adamant that man does not have any free will. I think most would agree that man does not have total free will but enough to be responsible for his own sin.

On another thread the Confession have be quoted which state that God is not the author of sin though he ordains ALL things. Is this a contradiction ?

On yet another thread or two a debate has be going on as to whether permissive will is just that or is it still just God's decretive will. Even if man had a 'limited menu', does this make God a risk taker ? E,g




However

If there is no such thing as freewill then everything is determined I.e

Theistic Fatalism.


Right/wrong ?

Wrong , you have failed to mention second causes .humans make decisions , secondary causes are valid in all Reformed literature

Does man have a free will ?

Man is never forced against his will , that suffices for the answer regarding mans free will

 

[cygnusx1]

Not quite on topic but most threads contain a lot of straw men an "you think... therefore" statements. Here is a link which details what John Wesley and James Arminius ACTUALLY believed and taught. Worth reading, especially the part

"Sir, I understand that you are called an Arminian; and I have been sometimes called a Calvinist; and therefore I suppose we are to draw daggers...."

Worth reading is George Whitefield , Augustus Montague , John Gill , James Hervey letters to Mr Wesley , they display the whole deal over Gods Sovereignty in salvation which Wesley denied , Wesley also went further than Arminius , he declared Christians born of God can still go to hell !

 

[JackSparrow]

Man is never forced against his will - man has no free will. Free will does not exist or God is a risk taker. Round and round and round and round.

Cygnus, draw a flow chart or something to help you out with circular arguing. Then come back and explain it to us.

Apologies to others. Some come here to find answers to genuine concerns.

One of my own is the God being the author of sin issue. I have never seen a solution to the this from those who say God ordains/causes/predestines ALL things.

 

[cygnusx1]

Why should I go away ? This is an open forum , if you wish to deny some speaking out on an open forum what are you doing here ?

Am I being denied the use of my will here ? By a free willer ? Why ?

 

[DeaconDean]

Does man have a will?

Certainly.

How free is that will?

That is what the debate is all about.

God Bless

Till all are one.

 

[cygnusx1]

Free will ?

You will never here a free will prayer , all men on their knees know God is sovereign over all things including salvation !

A man gets saved and everyone Praises God , for God inspires praise of the truth

A Church prays for revival knowing full well it is within Gods power to do what is asked ...

A preacher prays for the conversion of a President or Prime Minister , knowing God can do it ...

Free will prayers are as rare as white elephants

 

[DeaconDean]

Free will ?

You will never here a free will prayer , all men on their knees know God is sovereign over all things including salvation !

A man gets saved and everyone Praises God , for God inspires praise

A Church prays for revival knowing full well it is within Gods power to do what is asked ...

A preacher prays for the conversion of a President or Prime Minister , knowing God can do it ...

Free will prayers are as rare as white elephants

You know, its funny, in nearly 51 years I have never met one single "Christian" who told me that they were walking one day and all of a sudden decided on thier own "free will" to accept, believe, and repent.

God Bless

Till all are one.

 

[JackSparrow]

Does man have a will?

Certainly.

How free is that will?

That is what the debate is all about.

God Bless

Till all are one.

Exactly what the debate is about. Dean, on another thread you suggested 'limited menu'

I would be grateful if you expanded on that.

 

[ryansbro]

Brother Jack, why are you so upset? You may deny you are, but your words and phrases betray you. Just because one doesn't understand something, does not mean that it cannot be. The measuring rod is not our own puny intellects, it is God's Word, which may seem on the surface to contain contradictory things, but what cannot be harmonised here will be perfectly seen there. Please, accept the reality that some disagree with others, and let it be. None of us achieve perfection on this side of the looking glass....

 

[JackSparrow]

Free will ?

You will never here a free will prayer , all men on their knees know God is sovereign over all things including salvation !

A man gets saved and everyone Praises God , for God inspires praise of the truth

A Church prays for revival knowing full well it is within Gods power to do what is asked ...

A preacher prays for the conversion of a President or Prime Minister , knowing God can do it ...

Free will prayers are as rare as white elephants

I do not disagree except last sentence which I do not understand.

 

[all2Jesus]

Free will ?

You will never here a free will prayer , all men on their knees know God is sovereign over all things including salvation !

A man gets saved and everyone Praises God , for God inspires praise of the truth

A Church prays for revival knowing full well it is within Gods power to do what is asked ...

A preacher prays for the conversion of a President or Prime Minister , knowing God can do it ...

Free will prayers are as rare as white elephants

I hear free will prayers all the time: people praying their own will instead of what God demonstrates to be his will through the bible.

 

[cygnusx1]

^ all of a sudden a new poster arrives ..... Mmmmmmmm number of posts 1

 

[all2Jesus]

You know, its funny, in nearly 51 years I have never met one single "Christian" who told me that they were walking one day and all of a sudden decided on thier own "free will" to accept, believe, and repent.

God Bless

Till all are one.

True but most Christians use their free will to accept the grace of God offered to them so they can accept, believe and repent. Some Christians rejected this grace more than once before finally accepting this grace of God to accept, believe and repent. I've heard many of both types of testimonies.

 

[JackSparrow]

Brother Jack, why are you so upset? You may deny you are, but your words and phrases betray you. Just because one doesn't understand something, does not mean that it cannot be. The measuring rod is not our own puny intellects, it is God's Word, which may seem on the surface to contain contradictory things, but what cannot be harmonised here will be perfectly seen there. Please, accept the reality that some disagree with others, and let it be. None of us achieve perfection on this side of the looking glass....

Upset ! Keh

Listen up ryansbro. I do not understand Pointcares conjecture. Neither the finer points of Laplace transforms. Yet I am not upset. So please do not use that aspersion trick, OK.

I do not understand the electron wave/particle paradox either. I have NEVER said or implied these or any thing else 'cannot be'. You are wasting readers time with that diatribe.

In fact, ryansbro, several times I have posted support for Charles Spurgeon and his sermon where he PLAINLY states the paradox is in scripture so must he preach both. Spurgeon got a lot of flak for that as he was a Calvinist. Bizarrely I get a lot of flak form Calvinist for supporting a Calvinist.

In essence I think a lot of Calvinist are so focused that they become blinkered. God ordains ALL thing. Then no he does not ordain mans sin but he ordains all things. Net result, the church suffers. And NO, that does not mean I am selling Arminianism or any thing like that.

Bottom line:

It is a paradox ( Spurgeon, Apostle Paul, Calvin some times)
No it is not ( e.g Cx1)

Who is right ?

 

[cygnusx1]

I do not disagree except last sentence which I do not understand.

White elephants are a Freek of nature they aren't even white ... That's how rare free will prayers are .

We thanks God for our families and friends our health and wealth and our work , how much more for salvation .

 

[JackSparrow]

BTW ryansbro, you said "The measuring rod is not our own puny intellects,"

Amen to that.

 

[JackSparrow]

^ all of a sudden a new poster arrives ..... Mmmmmmmm number of posts 1

Cyg. I am me its 10:40 Mrs Browns Boys are on BBC 1. Annoying as I wanbt to see the news. Causalty was boribg On ITV right now is The Jonathon Ross Show. He gets up my goat so I never watch) OK

 

[JackSparrow]

And I cannot type fast hence the typos cos I am here live and not legion.