What if Darwin converted on his deathbed?

[AV1611VET]

Darwin's own family.

Darwin's own family can take a hike.

Unless they were with Mr. Darwin 24/7, they can say what they want and I don't have to accept it.

Others didn't ... mind if I don't, either?

 

[Subduction Zone]

Her timeline of Darwin's disease was off from what I have heard.

She was not there at the end.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Darwin's own family can take a hike.

Unless they were with Mr. Darwin 24/7, they can say what they want and I don't have to accept it.

Others didn't ... mind if I don't, either?

Why do you want to believe bad things about good people, AVET?

 

[TLK Valentine]

Yes ... who says it isn't true?

Family and close acquaintances of both Darwin and Mrs. Cotton, for starters, as well as historians, scholars, and more or less anyone who hasn't earned a reputation as a lying weasel with a creationist agenda to push -- at any cost.

 

[TLK Valentine]

They were there?

They were in touch with the ones who were.

 

[AV1611VET]

Family and close acquaintances of both Darwin and Mrs. Cotton, for starters, as well as historians, scholars, and more or less anyone who hasn't earned a reputation as a lying weasel with a creationist agenda to push -- at any cost.

They were there then?

 

[TLK Valentine]

They were there then?

Those that weren't were in touch with the ones that were.

 

[TLK Valentine]

Why do you want to believe bad things about good people, AVET?

It's the only way he knows to feel better about himself.

 

[AV1611VET]

They were in touch with the ones who were.

Like who?

Who was there at the time, besides (and beside) Ms. Hope?

 

[Subduction Zone]

Like who?

Who was there at the time, besides (and beside) Ms. Hope?

Nope, not Ms. Hope. Her visit was 7 months before Darwin died, he was not bedridden at that time.

As I said, her timeline did not match Darwin's disease. She lied for Jesus, something you should be familiar with.

 

[TLK Valentine]

Like who?

Who was there at the time, besides (and beside) Ms. Hope?

Whoa now, AV -- back up a bit...

Who says that Ms. Hope was ever there in the first place?

 

[AV1611VET]

Who says that Ms. Hope was ever there in the first place?

Ms. Hope?

 

[TLK Valentine]

Ms. Hope?

Try again, AV -- we have a story in which she claims to have been present...

We do have her later adding to the story after it became famous, coincidentally around a time she found herself in a bit of a financial jam.

And of course, we have people who knew her and credit her with quite the... "anecdotal imagination," to put it mildly.

So I'll simplify the question -- was she there?

 

[AV1611VET]

We do have her later adding to the story after it became famous, coincidentally around a time she found herself in a bit of a financial jam.

Can you back that up with Wikipedia?

And I'll ask again: Others believe the story; okay with you if I believe it too?

 

[verysincere]

Whoa now, AV -- back up a bit...

Who says that Ms. Hope was ever there in the first place?

Based upon my own considerable research into the story some time ago, I seriously doubt that Mrs. Hope is the seriously blatant liar who some claim. [And no, I don't have the time nor inclination to document the reasons why I am more neutral about her character and ethics. After all, we have all agreed that whether or not Darwin converted on his deathbed is irrelevant to the science of evolution.]

But on the other hand, precisely BECAUSE modern-day creationists have worked so hard to build a well-deserved reputation for dishonest quote-mining and "Lying for Jesus" when it suits their purposes, I certainly can understand why anti-creationists have blasted the Lady Hope stories! (Who can blame them?) We are so accustomed to reading incredible claims in creationist websites and videos and then tracking down their citations and primary sources (and lack of same) and finding that their claims were completely bogus---so who wouldn't assume that the Lady Hope stories are just as contrived and dishonest?

I admit all of this with great shame, because all of us Christ-followers pay a price in terms of general reputation when SOME Christians habitually lie. It annoys me greatly that the "Lying for Jesus" meme has become so common online and that a lot of people assume by default that Jesus' teachings must allow for "the end justifies the means" and that that is why so many creationists don't care about honesty when fighting against the theory of evolution and billions of years.

 

[TLK Valentine]

Can you back that up with Wikipedia?

mais oui.

And I'll ask again: Others believe the story; okay with you if I believe it too?

Feel free to believe any lie or delusion that you choose, AV -- we all know that truth means nothing to you.

 

[AV1611VET]

mais oui.

avoir à elle.

 

[CabVet]

Ms. Hope?

From Henrietta (Darwin's daughter):

"I was present at his deathbed, Lady Hope was not present during his last illness, or any illness. I believe he never even saw her, but in any case she had no influence over him in any department of thought or belief. He never recanted any of his scientific views, either then or earlier. We think the story of his conversion was fabricated in the U.S.A. . . . The whole story has no foundation whatever." Mrs R B Litchfield, "Charles Darwin's Death-Bed: Story of Conversion Denied," The Christian, February 23, 1922, p. 12.

But you don't really care about the truth, do you?

 

[AV1611VET]

From Henrietta (Darwin's daughter):

"I was present at his deathbed, Lady Hope was not present during his last illness, or any illness.

QV please:

Her visit was 7 months before Darwin died, he was not bedridden at that time.

 

[Tomk80]

They were there?

Lady Hope was not at Darwin's death bed. His family was. His family stated the fantasies of Lady Hope never happened.

QED