Some of you may be aware that I've recently come to Messianic Judaism from a Pentecostal background. And as such have had some problems with my family and friends accepting the change.
I recently spoke with one of a good pastor friend of mine, and he indicated that "a proper understanding of Hermeneutics" was require to interpret scripture. While I agree to an extent, I believe this argument is used to put lay people in their place. Since they have no formal training, their opinion on the subject is invalid. Out of respect, I didn't pursue the discussion, but here's my point of view.
Hermeneutics is taught in hundreds of classes, in hundreds of Bible colleges, owned by hundreds of denominations across this country. With that, you find that NONE of these denominations agree with one another. What makes the opinion of someone with a Masters Degree in Theology any more relevant than someone who has studied the word for 30 years with the guiding of the Holy Spirit?
I've personally been hit with that Hermeneutics argument a number of times. Unbeknownst to them, I HAVE studied hermeneutics, but I just smile, because ultimately, my opinion in no weightier than theirs.
I completely understand that Messianic Judaism is in chaos at the moment, and there needs to be a unified statement of beliefs, but please don't discount those new comers, who are earnestly inquiring into Messianic Judaism. They may bring some preconceived ideas to the table, and some of those ideas will be wrong due to ignorance. Instead of rejecting them, or attacking them, maybe we should try to mentor them?
Maz
Shalom
Thanks for sharing as you did. I've definately been able to relate to what you are talking on...and many others can as well. Part of the problem lies in people who say they have the desire to train - but what they train in has nothing to do either with what happened historicalyl in Jewish culture or what is happening with Messianic Judaism today - and because of bitterness toward anything related to Church or Christiantiy, anything they try to teach has to be based in being against that - enforcing a mindset of Messianics having to be opposite of Christian (false) and then waging war on other Messianic believers who don't agree.
This is complicated even further by the fact that many things you'd see in traditional Christianity may not be accurate - and people can have a hard time seperating those things done in traditional/mainstream Christiantiy that are not accurate from those things done in traditional/mainstream Christianity that have always been consistent with the Jewish worldview - and so, slothful generalizations are seen as the option rather than carefully dealing with issues. It's like people seeing things in the camp that can be dangerous like sabatouge/spies- but instead of dealing with it precisely, the mindset is to throw gernades into the camp and attack other soldiers with a war of suspicion and witch hunts.
And for a practical example, I know of others who grew up in the Pentecostal movement as many of my friends did. Some came from very legalistic churches - especially amongst the Holiness Pentecostal kind (i.e. those saying you had to wear dresses not pants, had to not wear make-up, had to not listen to secular music, etc.) and felt burnt by it - but rather than leaving where they were/saying that where they were at was not healthy, they ended up declaring war on the whole of Pentecostalism. Deeming every Pentecostal or the majority as negative based on how the majority of where they were at had a negative outlook - and they end up becoming EXACTLY what it is that they said they hated because they ended up promoting a legalism of another type.....and seeking to lose charitability or graciousness has hindered them due to the bitterness they carry with them.
It isn't healthy...and interestingly enough, the battles are around for other Messianic congregations that are Charismatic/Pentecostal in nature - in comparision with those who may've had others come from a Non-Charismatic background or one where it's predominately others from the backgrounds you noted. Some coming from extremes in Pentecostal backgrounds have entered the Messianic movement and condemned all other forms of Pentecostal thought - or Charismatic thought - due to guilt by association ideology...and it has been problematic. For more discussion on the mater, one can go
here or
here and
here for in-depth discussion
.
If giving answers on the issue, it is often the case that those still bitter over experiences can tend to react in saying that real answers "aren't being given" when it's really the case that they're not being considered as authorative as they may think of themselves/want themselve to be - and the answers that go against the stereotype they have chosen to accept are deemed to be "a threat" to those who come seeking/asking questions.....but walking in fear is never what the Lord calls us to.
On the subject, you'll never learn how to observe the Torah as intended when the focus is more so on Torah than it is on the Author of Life - Yeshua. The Lord noted that directly in John 5 when saying how the religious leaders of his day dilligently searched the scriptures/claimed to love Moses - and yet they missed the fact that Moses spoke of Christ - and because they didn't want to see Christ, everything else was thrown off.
The same thing goes for leaving places in bitterness (and really selfishness) and then trying to learn on Jewish culture - as you end up with a Yeshua who you proclaim as the Messiah/Holy One of Israel that others should follow and yet that version of Him was never the one He called for since it doesn't lead to building up the Body of Christ - and ends up creating strife where there needs to be none. Yeshua loves His Bride - and anyone or anything saying that He either hates His Church or loves/approves of Messianic Jewish Chrisitans or Messianic Gentiles more than He does those in traditional Christianity doesn't have a true version of Christ....
As it concerns Hermenutics, I do agree with you that according to I John 4 the Holy Spirit is the one who should lead/guide us ultimately - and hermenutics can be a slippery slope when seeing how many differing schools of it are available - with a Pentecostal view of it differing from a Cessationist view...the Reformed view differing from an Eastern Christian view...and so on and so forth.
Growing up experiencing a myriad of camps and dialouging with many, I have grown to have my strong leanings toward one style I see as the most consistent/historical and ancient.
Where I stand is what's known as Prima Scriptura (what the early church fathers/early church held to, including Luther..more here, here , here, here, here and here)...for biblically, there is and has never been such a thing as Sola Scriptura the way most Protestants define it...and the one often attritubed to it (Martin Luther) didn't support it either in the manner the phrase is championed. So with many in the Protestant camp, I have at times had to do battle whenever there's discussion arising on "Well, this is the proper hermenunitc" and it is actually something radically divorced from how things were always interpreted previously.
The same thing applies to discussions I've had whenever others speak on things and they may not be using Jewish exegesis (Pardes) on a text that was written in a Jewish context and with that frame of mind (more shared here in #
49 #
61 ).
Nonetheless, even with all that considered, there are a lot of things I'd fall on my sword for in determining who is or isn't a true brother/sister in Christ. For in many cases, as one of my mentors said, theology is our BEST GUESS
Some things we'll never know fully since we simply weren't there - as we can have recordings of what happened...but not the added dimension of seeing everyday experiences or body language to enhance it - and many things we can never know fully as if we have all the answers. Only the Lord can do that.
As it is,
The Lord has worked through others who only had ONE page of scripture - or none - and has gotten things done...and for others, all they had was oral culture and yet He still worked. In the Spirit of Ephesians 5:18-20 in speaking to one another with psalms, hymns and spiritual songs - and some of this has a greater significance for those within black churches, as for extensive periods of time all they had were things such as Negro Spirituals/musical forms of communication...and thus, its inherent within that culture to utilize forms of communication like poetry as ways of worship---as discussed more so here in #
89 and #
90.- and yet He has often given us the benefit of having standards of interpretation that are consistent/trustworthy......ESSENTIALS, so to speak, while everything else is secondary.
For myself, your hermenutic is seen in the fruit you produce ultimately - and if it's not the fruit of loving other believers in Christ as the Lord commanded (John 13:29-35) or not seeking to be His hands/feet (Luke 10:25-39), then your interpretation is either off...or being skewed due to missapplication of thought.
As Paul noted:
1 Timothy 4:16
Watch your life and doctrine closely. Persevere in them, because if you do, you will save both
yourself and
your hearers.
1 Timothy 4:15-16
We must guard how we believe - but more importantly, we must ensure we guard how we live when we're informing ourselves in what we believe....and as long as Yeshua is at the center, all other things fall into place.
