Karl Marx

[Redac]

The "to each" idea comes much earlier. When he phrased it that way is irrelevant. Mill never quite put it the way I wrote it either. The bottom line is that Marx is dead wrong and Mill is right on.
Marxism does not work because there is in it no accommodation for incentive.

So if you weren't required to, would you sit at home and do nothing but laze about your whole life?

 

[essentialsaltes]

He wanted to dedicate Das Kapital to Darwin.

Nope

Plus given the fact evolution theory was around way before Darwin wrote about it. Who knows.

Certainly evolutionary ideas were around, but without the insight of natural selection providing the explanatory power of Darwin's theory, it could not really be said that there was an evolutionary theory before Darwin.

 

[AP26]

If you have not actually read any Marx, just say so. I ask again: how much Marx have you read? Even a little bit is fine.

I read the communist manifesto. Like I said, I'm a sociology major so I don't know much about his economics. Cultural Marxism or "Political Correctness" is something I have sort of indulged in lately.

 

[bricklayer]

So if you weren't required to, would you sit at home and do nothing but laze about your whole life?

I would not take the risks inherent in business if not for the potential rewards.
I would not work more than my men for no more compensation.

I changed my business structure in 2008 and again after this last election.

I am now semi-retired. My men are off for the winter. I may not bring them back next spring.

I have been self-employed sine 1985. There is today in our economy the least amount of risk taking in my experience. We employers will not take on more risk (the riskiest thing one can do in business is employ another) until we are not faced with risks that are not endemic to our respective enterprises.

I've made my money, and I have better things to do now than "laze about".

During the Soviet experiment, people like me were shot for "sabotage of the revolution".
Would you have me shot if I terminated your employment because I chose to no longer take the risks or work as much as it takes to do what I've been doing?
Would you have those like me "forced" to "be the boss"?

 

[Redac]

During the Soviet experiment, people like me were shot for "sabotage of the revolution".
Would you have me shot if I terminated your employment because I chose to no longer take the risks or work as much as it takes to do what I've been doing?
Would you have those like me "forced" to "be the boss"?

As you wouldn't be employing anyone and would not be in a position to terminate anyone's employment, since you no longer have sole ownership of any means of production, the question is moot.

 

[keith99]

Nope



Certainly evolutionary ideas were around, but without the insight of natural selection providing the explanatory power of Darwin's theory, it could not really be said that there was an evolutionary theory before Darwin.

Oh wait I see yuo have theory in italics.

So I do agree. Before Darwin evolution was more doctrine, dogma or philosophy that theory.

As other than theory in hte scientific sense however it goes back to ancient Greece, at the least.

 

[Illuminaughty]

I dont know bruh. Marx was influenced my Darwin in some way.

He was also influenced by a belief in gravity.

 

[bricklayer]

As you wouldn't be employing anyone and would not be in a position to terminate anyone's employment, since you no longer have sole ownership of any means of production, the question is moot.

So it seems I am doing exactly what you want me to do then. At least you would not resent my choice to not participate, and I appreciate that. Unfortunately, history is replete with socialists who were not as tolerant as you. There were many people murdered during the soviet experiment for choosing to not continue to "from each according to their ability".

 

[Illuminaughty]

I read the communist manifesto.

I did too. I never noticed anything in it about worshiping Satan. In order to want to defeat God he would have had to believe a God existed in the first place and it seems he lacked such a belief.

 

[AP26]

I did too. I never noticed anything in it about worshiping Satan. In order to want to defeat God he would have had to believe a God existed in the first place and it seems he lacked such a belief.

I didn't pull the satanism out of the manifesto. That was pulled from other books.

From the research that I have done so far he wanted to destroy the church. Furthermore I was interested in his relationship with Moses Hess. Marx seemed to get a lot of ideas on communism from this man, who was a big part of the creation of political Zionism. Knowing this makes me beleive Marx's ideas were perceived one way, but intended for something else.

 

[Redac]

So it seems I am doing exactly what you want me to do then. At least you would not resent my choice to not participate, and I appreciate that. Unfortunately, history is replete with socialists who were not as tolerant as you. There were many people murdered during the soviet experiment for choosing to not continue to "from each according to their ability".

The people killed by the Soviet government were often enemies of the state (or Stalin in particular).

My distaste for those actions does not mean that, in a revolutionary society, you get to do as you wish. If you wanna do work you enjoy, fine, but you don't get to own means of production and employ people to use them. If one truly seeks to abolish capitalism, one can't allow pockets of it to remain.

 

[bricklayer]

The people killed by the Soviet government were often enemies of the state (or Stalin in particular).

My distaste for those actions does not mean that, in a revolutionary society, you get to do as you wish. If you wanna do work you enjoy, fine, but you don't get to own means of production and employ people to use them. If one truly seeks to abolish capitalism, one can't allow pockets of it to remain.

Freedom has a voluntary nature.
Communism, socialism, fascism and the like have a mandatory nature.

In my opinion, we should only make mandatory that which maximizes the voluntary.
The US constitution does this the best; however, it is now mostly disregarded. The majority of the the US Fed. government does is now extra constitutional.

 

[AP26]

Capitalism and Socialism are all good systems. The problem is they get corrupted. That element you can never take away.

 

[bricklayer]

Capitalism and Socialism are all good systems. The problem is they get corrupted. That element you can never take away.

Capitalism does a better job of compartmentalizing corruption by dispersing authority.
Socialism expedites corruption by concentrating authority.

Socialism is among the worst ways to organize an economy because of the "element you can never take away".
Capitalism is the least worst way to organize an economy because of the "element you can never take away".

 

[AP26]

Capitalism does a better job of compartmentalizing corruption by dispersing authority.
Socialism expedites corruption by concentrating authority.

Socialism is among the worst was to organize an economy because of the "element you can never take away".
Capitalism is the least worst way to organize an economy because of the "element you can never take away".

I'll agree capitalism is better, but look at it now. The corporations really have full control of the world.

 

[Redac]

Capitalism does a better job of compartmentalizing corruption by dispersing authority.
Socialism expedites corruption by concentrating authority.

Socialism is among the worst ways to organize an economy because of the "element you can never take away".
Capitalism is the least worst way to organize an economy because of the "element you can never take away".

It's like you think Soviet-style bureaucracy = socialism.

 

[bricklayer]

I'll agree capitalism is better, but look at it now. The corporations really have full control of the world.

They achieved this by way of public authority not personal responsibility.
What we have now is cronie-capitalism.

 

[bricklayer]

It's like you think Soviet-style bureaucracy = socialism.

You're correct; it's LIKE that but it's not that.

 

[Redac]

You're correct; it's LIKE that but it's not that.

Wait, what?

 

[AP26]

They achieved this by way of public authority not personal responsibility.
What we have now is cronie-capitalism.

Agreed