Is he committing adultery with his own wife?

[4Bear]

I do not see how you are extrapolating gatekeeper of chastity out of those portions of scripture. I understand that those are instructions for Christian living written for women but you also need to balance those out with what is asked of men.

1 Peter 3 is instructing women with husbands who aren't believers to win their husbands to Him through their actions.

Men have a similar requirement in Ephesians 5.

Titus 2 has different roles, however I do not see one gender as being more of a gatekeeper of chastity than another...

as they observe your chaste and [a]respectful behavior. 1 Pet 3

that they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children, [To be] discreet, chaste, keepers at home Titus 2

Is "chaste" used anywhere of husband's responsiblity? Maybe, but you'll have to point it out for me. Seems to me the wife is the gatekeeper in that area.

 

[Verve]

as they observe your chaste and [a]respectful behavior. 1 Pet 3

that they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children, [To be] discreet, chaste, keepers at home Titus 2

Is "chaste" used anywhere of husband's responsiblity? Maybe, but you'll have to point it out for me. Seems to me the wife is the gatekeeper in that area.

Specific verse you are using for 1st Peter? You must be using KJV. Mine says pure (NIV).

1 Peter 3:2 "when they see the purity and reverence of your lives."

Titus 2:5 "to be self-controlled and pure, to be busy at home, to be kind, and to be subject to their husbands, so that no one will malign the word of God."

 

[Avniel]

You sound so frustrated

Your healthy male libido is not wrong or sinful. It's a gift. But so are the opportunities to lay down your life for your wife when she is sick or tired.

Hope that helps!

I'm not frustrated just really amazed and disappointed.

I agree with you entirely it is sinful to take a healthy libido and a situation where being considerate and understanding is the right choice and do the opposite.

 

[mkgal1]

as they observe your chaste and [a]respectful behavior. 1 Pet 3

that they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children, [To be] discreet, chaste, keepers at home Titus 2

Is "chaste" used anywhere of husband's responsiblity? Maybe, but you'll have to point it out for me. Seems to me the wife is the gatekeeper in that area.

In that video I had linked in the other thread......West (the speaker) talks about a woman's inherent response to being used (and he means as a pattern--not isolated instances) is to close herself off (emotionally....and eventually physically). It seems to me that's gotten distorted into *her* being frigid.....unloving......mean.....selfish, but maybe that ought to be looked at with a little more understanding and sensitivity.

 

[Verve]

In that video I had linked in the other thread......West (the speaker) talks about a woman's inherent response to being used (and he means as a pattern--not isolated instances) is to close herself off (emotionally....and eventually physically). It seems to me that's gotten distorted into *her* being frigid.....unloving......mean.....selfish, but maybe that ought to be looked at with a little more understanding and sensitivity.

So you're coming at it from the perspective of the Love and Respect series by Dr. Emerson Eggerichs?

 

[Verve]

"Love and Respect" Dr. Emerson Eggerichs 1/2 - YouTube

"Love and Respect" Dr. Emerson Eggerichs 2/2 - YouTube

 

[mkgal1]

Lust can defile the marriage bed however you can not lust after something that is your own. How can I lust after my own body if two become one, if my body is her's and her body is mine how can I lust after my own body? It's irrational and the theory has to many gaps God isn't the author of confusion.

When you use phrases like "lust after"......it makes me think you may need to back up a bit to the core issue of lust (which is evil desires......basically not comprehending nor honoring God's law of love). "Lusting after" is a secondary step. Lust is like a seed.....it can either fall into fertile soil ...or....we can make no provision for it, by desiring God's ways.....knowing they are BEST for us (and others around us). Lust sort of "unlocks" or tears down the barrier that signals to us, "I don't want to break God's heart---He's given me everything....and that *would* break His heart".

We don't "own" others........

 

[mkgal1]

So you're coming at it from the perspective of the Love and Respect series by Dr. Emerson Eggerichs?

No.....not at all. I don't believe that love *can* be divorced from respect. I'm coming at this from the perspective of what West described......that when women sense being used (as a pattern).......they inherently shut down. That's a healthy response.......a defense mechanism (maybe even for the marriage and spiritual health of the couple).

 

[Avniel]

When you use phrases like "lust after"......it makes me think you may need to back up a bit to the core issue of lust (which is evil desires......basically not comprehending nor honoring God's law of love). "Lusting after" is a secondary step. Lust is like a seed.....it can either fall into fertile soil ...or....we can make no provision for it, by desiring God's ways.....knowing they are BEST for us (and others around us). Lust sort of "unlocks" or tears down the barrier that signals to us, "I don't want to break God's heart---He's given me everything....and that *would* break His heart".

We don't "own" others........

I strongly disagree in fact I think it's unbiblical when scripture states the opposite.

1Now concerning the things about which you wrote, it is good for a man not to touch a woman. 2But because of immoralities, each man is to have his own wife, and each woman is to have her own husband. 3The husband must fulfill his duty to his wife, and likewise also the wife to her husband. 4The wife does not have authority over her own body, but the husband does; and likewise also the husband does not have authority over his own body, but the wife does.



My life belongs to my family my body belongs to my family. Anything else to me would be considered selfish.

 

[Avniel]

No.....not at all. I don't believe that love *can* be divorced from respect. I'm coming at this from the perspective of what West described......that when women sense being used (as a pattern).......they inherently shut down. That's a healthy response.......a defense mechanism (maybe even for the marriage and spiritual health of the couple).

That goes against what scriptures say

Stop depriving one another, except by agreement for a time, so that you may devote yourselves to prayer, and come together again so that Satan will not tempt you because of your lack of self-control. 6But this I say by way of concession, not of command.

I think the wisdom here can't be ignored.

 

[mkgal1]

Why does all of this pain women so much? Because women want to be loved and cherished for
who they are as persons, not for the sexual release they offer men. The opposite of love is not hatred.
The opposite of love is to use someone merely as a means to an end. This is what lust leads men to do
ñ use women rather than love them.

Women don't simply want their husbands to direct their lusts exclusively towards them, as if
this made a man faithful. As our late Pope John Paul II once pointed out, a husband can commit
adultery in his heart with his own wife if he treats her as nothing but an object for his selfish
pleasure.

I know itís a clichÈ, but why do so many wives claim ìheadacheî when their husbands want
sex? Could it be because they feel used rather than loved? Marriage does not justify lust; it is not a
ticket to treat a spouse as a means of selfish pleasure. A woman who is the object of lust soon realizes,
ìYou donít love me; you donít need me. Youíre only interested in a means to your own gratification,
and you can get that anywhere.î

When the name of the game is self-gratification, any outlet will do. In this view, the Churchís
teaching on sex seems tailor made to ìkeep me from having a good time.î But when the name of the
game is self-donating love, everything the Church teaches
seems tailor made to help me overcome lust and learn to love as God intended in the beginning. Bingo.
The truth of the Church ís teaching on sexual love is confirmed in the pain and heartache of
those who are immersed in lust.~http://www.sorrowspetawawa.com/documents/Why Do Men Look at Porn.pdf
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
I would just clarify that "adultery" is most likely being used to mean "betrayal" or "loving someone/something more than one's spouse" (which would be "self"). It's akin to idolatry......having other gods before our LORD.....and that also is often "self". IOW.......Loving ourselves supremely .........over God (and subsequently, others). Lovers of pleasure RATHER THAN lovers of God. The awesome thing is......with God's way.....we don't have to choose one or the other. We get BOTH (pleasure and God's approval).

 

[Avniel]

Why does all of this pain women so much? Because women want to be loved and cherished for
who they are as persons, not for the sexual release they offer men. The opposite of love is not hatred.
The opposite of love is to use someone merely as a means to an end. This is what lust leads men to do
ñ use women rather than love them.

Women donít simply want their husbands to direct their lusts exclusively towards them, as if
this made a man ìfaithful.î As our late Pope John Paul II once pointed out, a husband can commit
ìadultery in his heartî with his own wife if he treats her as nothing but an object for his selfish
pleasure.

I know itís a clichÈ, but why do so many wives claim ìheadacheî when their husbands want
sex? Could it be because they feel used rather than loved? Marriage does not justify lust; it is not a
ticket to treat a spouse as a means of selfish pleasure. A woman who is the object of lust soon realizes,
ìYou donít love me; you donít need me. Youíre only interested in a means to your own gratification,
and you can get that anywhere.î

When the name of the game is self-gratification, any outlet will do. In this view, the Churchís
teaching on sex seems tailor made to ìkeep me from having a good time.î But when the name of the
game is self-donating love, everything the Church teaches
seems tailor made to help me overcome lust and learn to love as God intended in the beginning. Bingo.
The truth of the Church ís teaching on sexual love is confirmed in the pain and heartache of
those who are immersed in lust.~http://www.sorrowspetawawa.com/documents/Why Do Men Look at Porn.pdf
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
I would just clarify that "adultery" is most likely being used to mean "betrayal" or "loving someone/something more than one's spouse" (which would be "self"). It's akin to idolatry......having other gods before our LORD.....and that also is often "self". IOW.......Loving ourselves supremely (lovers of pleasure RATHER THAN lovers of God)..........over God (and subsequently, others).

I am still not seeing any evidence to a spouse lusting after another spouse with natural sexual desires.

 

[mkgal1]

I am still not seeing any evidence to a spouse lusting after another spouse with natural sexual desires.

Bias often does that to a person.

 

[mkgal1]

Adultery is not being "faithful".....right? Do we agree on that?

 

[Avniel]

Bias often does that to a person.

How am I bias if my wife needs anything I am always willing to give it to her. She is really my best friend and pretty much the only person I consider a friend. If I want to sleep and she want's to go to the movies I sacrifice myself my body and even my rest time when I am sick.

I believe that being a man is placing your family way above yourself. I believe that men are called to have a sacrificial love towards their wives. Anything other then that causes dysfunction in the marriage.

However the sin that causes that dysfunction is not lust. To call it lust is not having a clear understanding of the term. You are just resulting in personal attacks because you have no scripture to stand on. When you decide to personally attack someone you really are furthering my viewpoint that you are wrong, to me it's evidence of a flawed irrational viewpoint. So if you can't come up with a valid scriptural argument no need to take it out on me.

Especially when my wife gets whatever I have to give.

 

[Avniel]

Adultery is not being "faithful".....right? Do we agree on that?

I am not going to entertain that question if you have a valid point please provide it.

 

[mkgal1]

I am not going to entertain that question if you have a valid point please provide it.

The main characteristics of "faithful" are loyalty to faith; literally, fullness of faith; typically, of believing the faith God imparts. Strong's Greek: 4103. πιστός (pistos) -- faithful, reliable


One cannot be truly faithful in marriage, while loving their own self *above* (more than) God and spouse. Eph 5 says that we are to "follow God's example".....and, specifically, that "husbands are to love your wives, as Christ loves the Church and gave Himself up for her to make her holy....blameless." It also says....."He who loves his wife.....loves himself."

If one isn't faithful to following God's example (I'm not speaking of perfection....but, rather, what a person's aim is)...........and places their own self over their spouse (loving self MORE).....then, they have been unfaithful in marriage. They have betrayed their spouse. The Good News is......no one has to remain there.

 

[Avniel]

The main characteristics of "faithful" are loyalty to faith; literally, fullness of faith; typically, of believing the faith God imparts. Strong's Greek: 4103. πιστός (pistos) -- faithful, reliable


One cannot be truly faithful in marriage, while loving their own self *above* (more than) God and spouse. Eph 5 says that we are to "follow God's example".....and, specifically, that "husbands are to love your wives, as Christ loves the Church and gave Himself up for her to make her holy....blameless." It also says....."He who loves his wife.....loves himself."

If one isn't faithful to following God's example (I'm not speaking of perfection....but, rather, what a person's aim is)...........and places their own self over their spouse (loving self MORE).....then, they have been unfaithful in marriage. They have betrayed their spouse. The Good News is......no one has to remain there.

That still isn't lust basically what your describing is someone committing adultery with one's self you can't commit adultery with your spouse.

 

[mkgal1]

That still isn't lust basically what your describing is someone committing adultery with one's self you can't commit adultery with your spouse.

Lust = evil desires, not in accordance with God's will. IOW...man's will rather than God's will. Loving pleasure RATHER THAN loving God.

First......before there are any other people involved.....there is lust. That's between God and that person. It is a seed of evil desire----loving pleasure instead of loving God.

Second.......another person enters the scenario (opportunity for lust to manifest itself). Jesus *didn't* say....."you married men.....if you look upon a woman to lust after her"......He said, "That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart."

Lust isn't adultery.......it leads a person to be unfaithful (adultery).........in thoughts first.

 

[mkgal1]

That still isn't lust basically what your describing is someone committing adultery with one's self you can't commit adultery with your spouse.

It's not "with your spouse"......it's "against your spouse". It's being unfaithful to them (and God).