Is he committing adultery with his own wife?

LinkH

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Recently Mkgal1 has posted a thread in which she argues that it is possible to lust after one's own spouse.

Is it possible if a man looks at his own wife that he is committing adultery with her in his own heart? If what he has is lust, isn't that the conclusion one would draw if they define 'lust' as desire without perfect genuine divine love.

Let's say there is a man who wants to be right with God in every area of his life, including his married and sex life. He abstains from sex before marriage and reads where Paul says that to prevent fornication, let every man have his own wife and every woman her own husband. So he concludes that marriage, and not life-long celibacy, is for him, and prayerfully finds a godly woman with Proverbs 31 characteristics.

He cares about his wife, but he realizes that he has a lot to work on. Sometimes he is not as understanding of his wife's needs as he wants to be. He also beats himself up a bit when he considers his own faults.

Then he reads about love in I Corinthians 13. He's moving in that direction, but he can't say he's got it all down yet.

He's a bit theologically gullible. He hears someone talk about loving his wife with genuine, divine love, and he can't say his love is that pure and complete yet. Then he goes to a seminar where someone defines 'lust' as sexual desire without this kind of genuine love.

Then he remembers this verse.

Matthew 5:28
28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

He thinks, "Oh no, I've been committing adultery with my own wife." He feels really guilty. He tried to keep his thought life pure. He waited till marriage. But now, he hears that if he desires his wife without the right kind of love, it's lust, and he feels condemned.

Should he feel condemned? Is there any Biblical reason for someone to think that lust should be defined as sexual desire, even in marriage, without divine love? Or is lust related to coveting what is not yours, like Paul said when he wrote,

"for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet." (Romans 7:7b)
?


Added later
Discussion of the value of this thread or the motives of the OP for posting it shall be considered off-topic for this thread.
 
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LinkH

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If you can lust after your own spouse then you can commit adultery with that same spouse.

Another question if your spouse was skinny and now is big or vice versa isn't that adultery also?

:p

If a wife has sex with her husband after he comes back from 'The New Man' conference, is she committing adultery?
 
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ImaginaryDay

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I would say that until he has I Corinthians 13 all down pat and remembers every verse before, during, and after sex relations with his wife then lust is present and it is definitely adultery... :/

But then he would also have to check with his wife to make sure she is doing the same thing.

Poor guy. He must be a mess... :)
 
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mkgal1

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Recently Mkgal1 has posted a thread in which she argues that it is possible to lust after one's own spouse.

Is it possible if a man looks at his own wife that he is committing adultery with her in his own heart? If what he has is lust, isn't that the conclusion one would draw if they define 'lust' as desire without perfect genuine divine love.

This is where you seem to be going wrong----by basing the definition of "lust" solely on that verse. That isn't a definition of lust......that's merely saying that lusting is what leads one down the path of adultery (like David and Bathsheba, for instance). When one person isn't seeing another person as a child of God.....and they have little regard for dragging them into a sinful situation.....that opens all sorts of doors to sin (lying.....even murder, in King David's case). Just like pride leads to many other sins......lust also leads to sin.

We are told, in James 1:14, that it's our evil desires that entice us and lead us away.

Here is the definition that you quoted in that other thread:

Epithumia is used most frequently, and means a longing for the unlawful, hence, concupiscence, desire, lust. The following references hold the idea, not only of sinful desire known as "fleshly," "worldly," as opposed to "spiritual" "heavenly," "the will of man" as opposed to "the will of God," but also the sensual desire connected with adultery, fornication

Notice that definition says, "desire *connected* with adultery".....not that it *is* adultery. Lust breaks down the moral barriers in one's mind that allows one to commit adultery----because the physical pleasure is desired over even pleasing God----just like 2nd Timothy 3 says, (lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God.)......that opens the door to a lot of things.

You could also relate that to drug/alcohol use......a person is loving the immediate pleasure more than God and the people around them that are affected (including their own body). Just as you said in the other thread......."lust" isn't limited to just the sexual relationship.
 
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LinkH

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Depends what is going on between his ears.

If he is thinking of inappropriate content images or of someone else during sexual intimacy with his wife, he has crossed the line into lust and adultery.

If that were the case, then wouldn't he be committing adultery in his heart with the woman he was imagining, and not with his own wife?\

This is one of those areas where we have to be careful of professional 'experts.' I've seen some supposed experts on secular talk shows advising marriage couples to fantasize about other people.
 
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LinkH

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This is where you seem to be going wrong----by basing the definition of "lust" solely on that verse. That isn't a definition of lust......that's merely saying that lusting is what leads one down the path of adultery (like David and Bathsheba, for instance). When one person isn't seeing another person as a child of God.....and they have little regard for dragging them into a sinful situation.....that opens all sorts of doors to sin (lying.....even murder, in King David's case). Just like pride leads to many other sins......lust also leads to sin.

I'm not saying you are basing your definition of lust on that verse. I'm saying that if it is possible to lust after your wife, then based on that verse, it makes sense to say that the one who lusts after his wife is also committing adultery with her in his heart-- which doesn't make much sense. This is Christ's commentary on "You shall not commit adultery" so it makes sense to take it in the context of looking to lust on someone who is not one's wife, rather than with one's own wife.

Lust does not always lead to sin. Lust only leads to sin if you make provision for the flesh to fulfill the lust thereof. The flesh has lusts. We flee from them. We don't make provision for them. We keep our body under subjection. But the lusts are there. Lust isn't sin. If lust conceives, it brings forth sin, and we stop that from happening.

Notice that definition says, "desire *connected* with adultery".....not that it *is* adultery. Lust breaks down the moral barriers in one's mind that allows one to commit adultery----because the physical pleasure is desired over even pleasing God----just like 2nd Timothy 3 says, (lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God.)......that opens the door to a lot of things.

I agree that lust is not adultery. If a man looks at the woman to lust after her, he commits adultery with her in his heart. This is not something done without volition. He chooses to yield his eye to the sin. He chooses to think whatever thoughts, if he does so, or just look and desire.

Let's say a serial killer and rapist gets married to some poor unsuspecting innocent girl. Of course, she doesn't survive the night. But is it 'lust' that he wants to sleep with his wife? No, but if he has a lust for violence and fulfills it on his poor victim, he is yielding to his lust for violence. It is the violence that is the sin, not having sex with his own wife.

When lust has conceived it brings forth sin, James says. The desire to do things that are good, holy and appropriate is not lust in the Biblical sense, based on what I've studied. The desire to do what is wicked is lust.

You could also relate that to drug/alcohol use......a person is loving the immediate pleasure more than God and the people around them that are affected (including their own body). Just as you said in the other thread......."lust" isn't limited to just the sexual relationship.

I think alcohol abuse is a good example. The drunkard has lust to drink too much alcohol. If he gives in to the lust, by drinking too much, he sins.

Any time we sin, it is a love problem. Jesus said "If you love Me, keep my commandments." If we disobey God, it is usually because when we do it, we are not loving Him with all our heart, soul, mind, and strength. If we sin against our neighbor, we usually do so because we aren't loving our neighbor as we love ourselves.

Lust is the desire to commit the sin.
 
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ChristianGolfer

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Sorry, I intended a serious thread. I was just joking around with Avniel with that last post.

Why couldn't you just continue the conversation in the other thread, then?

You basically just reposted what you already had in the other thread.

I think this thread was started in bad-faith. It's basically "hey everyone, don't you agree with me that mkgal's stuff in that other thread is stupid? Hahaha".

Seriously. Real mature.
 
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mkgal1

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I'm not saying you are basing your definition of lust on that verse. I'm saying that if it is possible to lust after your wife, then based on that verse, it makes sense to say that the one who lusts after his wife is also committing adultery with her in his heart-- which doesn't make much sense.
I didn't say that you said that *I* am basing *my* definition of that verse----but, that *you* seem to be.
 
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LinkH

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Why couldn't you just continue the conversation in the other thread, then?

You basically just reposted what you already had in the other thread.

I think this thread was started in bad-faith. It's basically "hey everyone, don't you agree with me that mkgal's stuff in that other thread is stupid? Hahaha".

Seriously. Real mature.

I wanted to focus specifically on the conclusion it leads to in light of Matthew 5-- that a man can commit adultery in his heart by looking with lust at his own wife. If a man can look with lust at his wife, then it follows that he can commit adultery with her in his heart.

If you don't care for this thread, you are not required to participate.
 
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ChristianGolfer

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I wanted to focus specifically on the conclusion it leads to in light of Matthew 5-- that a man can commit adultery in his heart by looking with lust at his own wife. If a man can look with lust at his wife, then it follows that he can commit adultery with her in his heart.

If you don't care for this thread, you are not required to participate.

Yeah right.

Now you're just arguing about the same exact thing in two different threads.

The way you called mkgal out in the opening of this one indicates what your intentions were.
 
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mkgal1

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I wanted to focus specifically on the conclusion it leads to in light of Matthew 5-- that a man can commit adultery in his heart by looking with lust at his own wife. If a man can look with lust at his wife, then it follows that he can commit adultery with her in his heart.

If you don't care for this thread, you are not required to participate.

That's not a logical conclusion.....and completely misses (and mocks) what I've been saying. It's your choice if you want to *not* consider lust a sin. I see otherwise......(this is only one example of many):

So put to death the sinful, earthly things lurking within you. Have nothing to do with sexual immorality, impurity, lust, and evil desires. Don't be greedy, for a greedy person is an idolater, worshiping the things of this world.~Colossians 3:5

This doesn't condemn people......because once they *do* realize their sin (that part *is* necessary)..........God has promised to cleanse and make new (1st John 1:9)
 
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Hetta

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This is one of those areas where we have to be careful of professional 'experts.' I've seen some supposed experts on secular talk shows advising marriage couples to fantasize about other people.
Why do we have to be careful of professional experts .. who nobody has mentioned.
 
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ImaginaryDay

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Okay, I'm going 'hypothetical' crazy here. The original standard used in the OP was this:

Is it possible if a man looks at his own wife that he is committing adultery with her in his own heart? If what he has is lust, isn't that the conclusion one would draw if they define 'lust' as desire without perfect genuine divine love.

So how off base was it to suggest that unless a husband/wife has I Corinthians 13 in mind at all times and are consciously practising those principles while engaging in the sex act it's adultery and they are in sin? I mean, who has "perfect genuine divine love"?

I'll pose that question for now. Seeing as how I have some time I'm off to study this for a bit. Although my response initially seemed to be mocking it wasn't meant to be.

To put it bluntly, no-he is not committing adultery if he has sexual relations with his wife if 'perfect genuine divine love' is not present.
 
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4Bear

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If that were the case, then wouldn't he be committing adultery in his heart with the woman he was imagining, and not with his own wife?

He has defiled the marriage bed by the adultery going on between his ears.

You asked on another thread:

So does 'cheat' extend to emotional affairs, looking with lust, peeking at inappropriate contentography, or going out to dinner in a questionable situation?

Yes.
Biblically, inappropriate content is a form of cheating which leads to divorce.

"At a 2003 meeting of the American Academy of Matrimonial Lawyers, two-thirds of the 350 divorce lawyers noted that the Internet was playing an increasing role in marital splits, with excessive online inappropriate content watching contributing to more than half of the divorces"
 
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4Bear

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I wanted to focus specifically on the conclusion it leads to in light of Matthew 5-- that a man can commit adultery in his heart by looking with lust at his own wife. If a man can look with lust at his wife, then it follows that he can commit adultery with her in his heart.

He can be engaging in adultery and defiling the marriage bed by what is going on between his ears. The sanctity of the marriage bed is not just about the husband and wife's connecting body parts.

If your wife is carrying on an emotional affair and gets really hot for you and you have hot passionate sex and the whole time she is imagining the other man...
She sees his face, thinks of his loving words, imagines his p**** entering her...
has she committed adultery in her heart? Or is this just fine marital sex because her body parts connected with yours and not the OM's?
 
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