To tithe, or not to tithe. That is the question!

[WordofHisPower]

Ok. I'll play along:

True.

He commanded those who were under the Law to tithe.

True.

He told those who were still under the Law at that time to continue titheing.

Something else that's true:

Jesus also told those who were still under the Law at that time to offer up burnt sacrifices in Luke 5. I doubt you obey that.

False.

Paul said nothing of the kind. anywhere in that chapter.

False.

First and foremost, we are to follow the example of scripture, which is to meet the needs of fellow believers, not apply our giving to support dead buidings and programs from which the so-called "giver" reaps benefit. That's exemplified nowhere in scripture.

And for those who seem to think "pastor" appears on almost every other page of the NT, get over it. Pastoring is a task for ALL believers rather than to hire YOUR job out to some other poor sap who ends up overworked because you've made him your pathetic hireling.

Lazy people always hire someone else to do what they should be, and need to be, doing themselves.

BTW

All sacrifices are replaced once for all by Christ's sacrifice.

Tithes, offerings, alms to the poor are through Christ now.

Hebrews 7:8,
Here mortal men receive tithes, but there he receives them, of whom it is witnessed that he lives.

Hebrews 5:6, As He also says in another place:“You are a priest forever
According to the order of Melchizedek”

Hebrews 6:20,
where the forerunner has entered for us, even Jesus, having become High Priest forever according to the order of Melchizedek.

 

[GaryArnold]

Hebrews 7:8 (KJV) And here men that die receive tithes; but there he receiveth them, of whom it is witnessed that he liveth.

Let's analyze this verse. First, we need to know that the Book of Hebrews was written BEFORE the Temple was destroyed. Up until the Temple was destroyed, the Jews continued to tithe to the Levitical priesthood.

And here men that die receive tithes [referring to the Levites]; but there he receiveth them, of whom it is witnessed that he liveth [referring to Melchizedek].

Jesus is the High Priest forever. WE, born again believers, are now the priests.
1 Peter 2:9 (KJV) “But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should show forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:”

Nowhere in the scriptures did priests tithe. Priests gave offerings, not tithes. See Numbers 18. There is no instruction anywhere in the scriptures for priests to tithe.

 

[Always in His Presence]

549 replies and still the same banter. Sad

 

[Frogster]

no sad for others who may be lurking, and learning.

 

[BeforeThereWas]

All sacrifices are replaced once for all by Christ's sacrifice.

Tithes, offerings, alms to the poor are through Christ now.

Hebrews 7:8,
Here mortal men receive tithes, but there he receives them, of whom it is witnessed that he lives.

Hebrews 5:6, As He also says in another place:“You are a priest forever
According to the order of Melchizedek”

Hebrews 6:20,
where the forerunner has entered for us, even Jesus, having become High Priest forever according to the order of Melchizedek.

Hebrews 7:8 is absolutely not saying that the practice of tithing was being followed by the New Testament church at the time the book of Hebrews was written. It is also not talking about a practice of tithing that is supposed to be in effect permanently, throughout the church age. The phrase “here men that die receive tithes” is not talking about Christian ministers in the church, now or then. It is talking about priests at the temple in Jerusalem. The context bears that out. The “he” that is being referred to by the phrase “but there he receiveth them” is Melchizedek, 4000 years ago, not Jesus.
This verse is incorrectly interpreted by some to say in effect:

And here (in the New Covenant), men that die (our pastors and other ministers) receive tithes (from born-again Christians); but there (up in heaven) he (Jesus) (is the one who actually) is receiving them, of whom it is witnessed that he liveth.​

This erroneous interpretation of the verse does not comprehend the theological argument that is being made in the passage. This misinterpretation is carelessly taken to be a scriptural proof that tithing is the will of God and the standard mode of operation in the New Covenant.
Objectively interpreted within its context, the verse is actually saying:

And here (in Israel at the time that Hebrews was written) men (who are priests under the Old Covenant) that (will eventually) die (and be succeeded by another mortal man after them) receive tithes (from those who are following the Law of Moses); but there (2000 years prior, during the time of Abraham in Genesis 14) he (Melchizedek) receiveth them, of whom it is witnessed that he liveth.​

Scholars and theologians debate whether this language referring to Melchizedek's endless life is literal or symbolic. In either case the verse is not a reference to tithing in the New Covenant. “Here men that die receive tithes” is referring to Old Covenant priests not to New Covenant ministers. “There he receiveth them” is referring to Melchizedek in Genesis 14:18–20, not to Jesus up in heaven now. Nowhere in the verse is the New Covenant being referred to. This passage is not teaching that tithing is the way of giving that God has ordained for the New Covenant.
Consider some other translations of Hebrews 7:8:

Furthermore, here [in the Levitical priesthood] tithes are received by men who are subject to death; while there [in the case of Melchizedek], they are received by one of whom it is testified that he lives [perpetually]. (The Amplified Bible. Copyright © Zondervan Publishing House 1965)​

And here, on the one hand, men subject to death are receiving tithes, but there he [Melchisedec] receives them, concerning whom the testimony is that he is living. (The New Testament: An Expanded Translation by Kenneth S. Wuest. Copyright © Wm. B. Eerdmans Publishing Co. 1961)​

The “he” referred to in Hebrews 7:8 is the same “he” referred to in verse 6. That “he” is Melchizedek. That “he” is not referring to Jesus in the New Covenant. Melchizedek is the subject of verse 1 and is referred to in verses 2, 3, 4, 6, 8, 10, 11, 15, 17, and 21.

Anyone who reads scripture for what it actually says will know form the CONTEXT that this is true.

No amount of emotional argumentation will ever change what can be gleaned from a study of the OVERALL texts surrounding these pulled-out-of-context verses WOHP seems to enjoy casting about as nothing more than several disjointed verses ripped out in order to RE-weave together the same old tapestry of falsehood we've all seem for many years. This wasn't a false doctrine he made up himself. He's merely a product of someone else's falsehoods.

BTW

 

[BeforeThereWas]

549 replies and still the same banter. Sad

It's taken this long to finally get some verses out of the pro-required-tithing gang. Now it's time to easily debunk their misapplications of scripture.

BTW

 

[BeforeThereWas]

We have a far higher and better relationship to Jesus Christ than Abraham had to Melchizedek.



Did ya'll get that?



The dynamics of our relationship, through a spiritual union with Christ, are completely different than those between Abraham and Melchizedek.



Therefore, the pre-Abrahamic argument falls flat on the basis of a spiritual reality not under the subjective control of false teachers.



We are sons of God through Christ, sharing in His inheritance, status, and relationship to the Father because He indwells us through His Spirit. Jesus isn't tithing to the Father, so neither do we. We don't tithe to Jesus because we are indwelt by Him. That would be inconsistent with our relationship. We are His priests, and yet some think themselves qualified to enslave us to man-made principles and/or the Law.



Everything in our possession is already jointly possessed by Jesus Christ because he is our life, living in us. Everything we have is presumed to be committed to his purposes. We are stewards who live to accomplish his will on earth.


Tithing is not the pattern we follow today. The Holy Spirit is the leader now, not the principle of tithing.


BTW

 

[Always in His Presence]

It's taken this long to finally get some verses out of the pro-required-tithing gang. Now it's time to easily debunk their misapplications of scripture.

BTW

You know, I think you really believe that.

 

[Always in His Presence]

I have never met someone who was anti-tithe that was faithful in their giving, let alone their church. The vast majority that I have encountered do more complaining about churches than they do praying and supporting a ministry.

They spend more time arguing why they shouldn't give than they do helping others in need.

I just have met very, very few anti-tithes who were faithful in anything beyond sitting at home and criticizing.

 

[Frogster]

care to rebutt any facts posted here?

 

[BeforeThereWas]

I have never met someone who was anti-tithe that was faithful in their giving, let alone their church.

I've never met a pro-required-tithe supporter who wholly accepted what scripture teaches. If you have a something of value to add, then please do so. Tit for tat posting proves nothing.

The vast majority that I have encountered do more complaining about churches than they do praying and supporting a ministry.

Ministry is something we're ALL supposed to be doing...not hiring out our responsibility to others!

They spend more time arguing why they shouldn't give than they do helping others in need.

You seem to confuse "giving" with "tithing" as if they're mutually interchangeable.

If you're going to argue faithfulness, then you have to argue tithing is a requirement. Otherwise, you're forced to flip-flop on many historic and modern teachings about the matter.

I just have met very, very few anti-tithes who were faithful in anything beyond sitting at home and criticizing.

Well, so far you've done a splendid job mimicking the very people you're complaining about.

Where's the substance behind your claims? Where's the proof? As froggy asked, where's your rebuttal?

Your hit-n-run posts are meaningless without some sort of dissertation in support of your, what appears to be, meaningless position!

BTW

 

[Always in His Presence]

I didn't respond to Froggy because I have him on ignore and can't see his posts. I am convinced He's a sock puppet.

Where is my proof? I dunno 30 years of exposure to both sides.

Funny, did I hit a nerve?

This isn't a drive by post. This theme has been done to death on this forum. You can search it out for yourself. You might even find out what I believe on the subject.

 

[Frogster]

unrebutted facts, means they stand as truth.

 

[K2K]

unrebutted facts, means they stand as truth.

Interesting???

I guess since Jesus said He was the truth, He must be "unrebutted facts".

I'll have to think about that one.


OH MY - I JUST REALIZED THAT BY COMMENTING, I MIGHT HAVE CHANGED THE TRUTH (Jesus)!!!

WILL GOD EVER FORGIVE ME.

 

[Frogster]

Interesting???

I guess since Jesus said He was the truth, He must be "unrebutted facts".

I'll have to think about that one.


OH MY - I JUST REALIZED THAT BY COMMENTING, I MIGHT HAVE CHANGED THE TRUTH (Jesus)!!!

WILL GOD EVER FORGIVE ME.

yes my son, he will forgive u.

 

[Frogster]

I didn't respond to Froggy because I have him on ignore and can't see his posts. I am convinced He's a sock puppet.

Where is my proof? I dunno 30 years of exposure to both sides.

Funny, did I hit a nerve?

This isn't a drive by post. This theme has been done to death on this forum. You can search it out for yourself. You might even find out what I believe on the subject.

lets love froggy...

 

[GodismySalvation]

I have never met someone who was anti-tithe that was faithful in their giving, let alone their church. The vast majority that I have encountered do more complaining about churches than they do praying and supporting a ministry.

They spend more time arguing why they shouldn't give than they do helping others in need.

I just have met very, very few anti-tithes who were faithful in anything beyond sitting at home and criticizing.

It took me a long time to get through this thread. I was undecided on tithing, but after 550 posts, I would have to agree with your statement. The tithers give good bible proofs AND are pretty much the only ones who talk in support of giving. The attitude of the tithers has convinced me to become one. Thanks to all you tithers. You made an impression on me.

 

[GodismySalvation]

unrebutted facts, means they stand as truth.

I would have to disagree. The bible is true and doesn't need to rebutt anyone's facts. Most of the critics of tithing seem to keep rebutting the bible AND they don't treat those who disagree with them very respectfully. I wouldn't respond to those kind of people either.

 

[Messy]

I've got no problems with giving 10 % or more, I just don't want to do it because I have to, because it's in the law. I do it because I want to and to the one God tells me to give it to. Maybe it's time pastors who have more than enough go tithe to the Body of Christ in need, members are also part of His Body, instead of a megachurch in Canada sending me in Holland an email with merry christmas, could you donate, we can't pay off our buildings. I'm still paying off my debt of a week ministry I got there years ago.

 

[GodismySalvation]

I've got no problems with giving 10 % or more, I just don't want to do it because I have to, because it's in the law. I do it because I want to and to the one God tells me to give it to. Maybe it's time pastors who have more than enough go tithe to the Body of Christ in need, members are also part of His Body, instead of a megachurch in Canada sending me in Holland an email with merry christmas, could you donate, we can't pay off our buildings. I'm still paying off my debt of a week ministry I got there years ago.

I liked how the tithers said they tithe by faith, AND follow the Lord on where to give their tithe. I would like to hear more on how they started tithing and what happened when they did. AND more on how they hear from the Lord on where to give. Their experiences are inspiring to me.