Romney or Obama?

[Redac]

is abortion a major issue for everyone that is being aborted?

They're about as cognizant of the abortion debate as my cat.

 

[IzzyPop]

They're about as cognizant of the abortion debate as my cat.

I would say even less cognizant. Your cat can at least hear sounds.

 

[Redac]

I would say even less cognizant. Your cat can at least hear sounds.

He can even voice his opinions about things. Never seen a fetus do that.

 

[JoeyArnold]

Do women in commas have rights?

 

[IzzyPop]

Yes. But women in semicolons do not.

 

[JoeyArnold]

what about women who are vegetables?

 

[Redac]

what about women who are vegetables?

Their rights don't overrule the rights of those who are fruits or grains.

 

[JoeyArnold]

are all men created equal?

 

[Dave Ellis]

abortion is not a major issue?

The only place in the civilized world where abortion is a major issue is the United States.

Up here it's been legal since 1988, and there really is no major controversy about it at all.

In fact, we currently have a Conservative majority government up here... that means the Conservative Party holds a plurality of seats in the House of Commons (163/308 seats). Furthermore, they also have majority control of the Senate (61/105 seats) so there's no real risk of legislation getting stopped there.

In short, they could pass any legislation they wanted to as long as it was constitutional. A couple months back, one of the backbench Members of Parliament put forward a bill not to ban abortion, but just to look into if the current laws to see if the current definition of when a fetus becomes a human is still ok.

The Conservative Party, including Prime Minister Harper overwhelmingly defeated the motion on the grounds that they have no interest in reopening the abortion debate in any way.

Likewise, Gay Marriage has been legal here (nationally) since 2005, although it was legal in most provinces before then. The Conservative Party also has no plans to reopen that debate as well, and considers it a settled issue.

This is pretty well par for the course in every 1st world country... In fact, we kind of look at the situation in the states and can't understand why it's such a big deal. In a country where individual rights and freedoms are so revered, it's incredible there's such opposition to actually granting those freedoms to everyone to make decisions for themselves.


So yes, considering your economy is in the dumper, there's a lot of unemployment, you have a ludicrous deficit and debt load, and your health care system is 30-40 years behind the rest of the civilized world.... Abortion and Gay Marriage are incredibly minor issues. Just grant people their rights, and move on to more important things.

 

[Dave Ellis]

are all men created equal?

I believe all humans should be born with equal rights. Why do you ask?

 

[trientje]

The only place in the civilized world where abortion is a major issue is the United States.

Up here it's been legal since 1988, and there really is no major controversy about it at all.

In fact, we currently have a Conservative majority government up here... that means the Conservative Party holds a plurality of seats in the House of Commons (163/308 seats). Furthermore, they also have majority control of the Senate (61/105 seats) so there's no real risk of legislation getting stopped there.

In short, they could pass any legislation they wanted to as long as it was constitutional. A couple months back, one of the backbench Members of Parliament put forward a bill not to ban abortion, but just to look into if the current laws to see if the current definition of when a fetus becomes a human is still ok.

The Conservative Party, including Prime Minister Harper overwhelmingly defeated the motion on the grounds that they have no interest in reopening the abortion debate in any way.

Likewise, Gay Marriage has been legal here (nationally) since 2005, although it was legal in most provinces before then. The Conservative Party also has no plans to reopen that debate as well, and considers it a settled issue.

This is pretty well par for the course in every 1st world country... In fact, we kind of look at the situation in the states and can't understand why it's such a big deal. In a country where individual rights and freedoms are so revered, it's incredible there's such opposition to actually granting those freedoms to everyone to make decisions for themselves.


So yes, considering your economy is in the dumper, there's a lot of unemployment, you have a ludicrous deficit and debt load, and your health care system is 30-40 years behind the rest of the civilized world.... Abortion and Gay Marriage are incredibly minor issues. Just grant people their rights, and move on to more important things.

This is pretty well par for the course in every 1st world country... In fact, we kind of look at the situation in the states and can't understand why it's such a big deal. In a country where individual rights and freedoms are so revered, it's incredible there's such opposition to actually granting those freedoms to everyone to make decisions for themselves.

So you can't understand why abortion is such a big deal in the states? Our nation was formed under God and there are many many people in our country who believe in God and believe in the sanctity of life. Many Christians believe that life begins at conception. Yes, our rights and freedoms are revered. That includes the rights of the unborn. so many people talk about the rights of the mother, what about the rights of the unborn? Does not the mother carry the burden of being responsible for the life of her baby? Is this not an important issue? Maybe not in your eyes but it is for many of us here in the US.

 

[trientje]

So yes, considering your economy is in the dumper, there's a lot of unemployment, you have a ludicrous deficit and debt load, and your health care system is 30-40 years behind the rest of the civilized world.... Abortion and Gay Marriage are incredibly minor issues. Just grant people their rights, and move on to more important things.

Our economy is in the dumper because of 4 years of poor leadership. By the grace of God, we are hoping that this leader we have will be kicked out in 6 days. Our president was elected through deceit and manipulation. And has proven that he is not capable of leading our nation. We are hoping that if Romney gets in he will be able to start helping to heal this nation. Our health care system? If it is so bad then why do so many people from your country come here for surgeries? DO not discount us! We will heal and once again be the leader of the world.

 

[Dave Ellis]

So you can't understand why abortion is such a big deal in the states? Our nation was formed under God and there are many many people in our country who believe in God and believe in the sanctity of life. Many Christians believe that life begins at conception. Yes, our rights and freedoms are revered. That includes the rights of the unborn. so many people talk about the rights of the mother, what about the rights of the unborn? Does not the mother carry the burden of being responsible for the life of her baby? Is this not an important issue? Maybe not in your eyes but it is for many of us here in the US.

You nation was formed with the spirit of freedom, with Liberty and Justice for all.

It was not formed "Under God", in fact the first amendment of your constitution makes it plainly clear that religious freedom is one of the founding principles of the United States. When the founding fathers were writing the constitution, there were numerous attempts to try to get a reference to God included, and those attempts were voted down every single time.

Many (not all) of the founding fathers were quite plainly outspoken against Christianity, and while almost all believed in some form of God, a large percentage certainly did not believe in, or especially worship your God.

These were people who saw the effect of (and fled) religious persecution in Europe, they understood the dangers of allowing the church to set public policy, which is why they created the wall between church and state. They believed people should be free to worship as they wish, but the government should be run from a totally neutral standpoint. It was incredibly enlightened thinking, and was one of the reasons why the United States became as great a country as it is.

Believe it or not, there are people in your country who are also not Christian. Therefore imposing your views on them, based on what your religious doctrine says is unjust and against the spirit of religious freedom.

That's ignoring the fact that there are many Christians who also have no problem with legalized abortion, and the thousands, if not millions of Christians who have had abortions in the United States.

If you don't want to have an abortion because you don't agree with the concept... that's your right, and you are free to exercise it. Trying to deny those rights to others based on your religion however is completely out of line, and destructive.

 

[Dave Ellis]

Our economy is in the dumper because of 4 years of poor leadership. By the grace of God, we are hoping that this leader we have will be kicked out in 6 days. Our president was elected through deceit and manipulation. And has proven that he is not capable of leading our nation. We are hoping that if Romney gets in he will be able to start helping to heal this nation. Our health care system? If it is so bad then why do so many people from your country come here for surgeries? DO not discount us! We will heal and once again be the leader of the world.

Um... you are aware that Bush inherited a fairly healthy economy and trashed it, right? Trying to blame the economy on Obama is just plain silly to be honest, seeing as he was elected well after the crash.

Has he done a good job righting the ship? So far, I'm not impressed either, however the economy is finally showing signs of recovery. Would it have been better under the republicans? Who knows, however they certainly weren't doing much to address the problems when they were in power either.

And how do you claim he was elected on deceit and manipulation? What are you referring to?

As for health care, I'm not claiming the Canadian system is perfect either... there are some people that will cross the border to pay for surgeries to get faster service. Personally, I think we should allow private hospitals here to run alongside the public system. It would keep that money in the country, and take a lot of pressure off the public system.

But, on the flip side, why do so many Americans come up to Canada for prescription medication, which is far cheaper here? People cross the border both ways for health care, so don't try to make it sound otherwise.

The point is, you could work hard your entire life in the states, get hit with some unforeseen illness (or have a preexisting condition which makes getting full insurance difficult) and wind up losing your house or retirement savings putting you into a dire financial situation. For a country as rich and powerful as the United States, leaving a significant percentage of your population out to fend for themselves like that is simply barbaric, and needs to be fixed.

 

[trientje]

You nation was formed with the spirit of freedom, with Liberty and Justice for all.

It was not formed "Under God", in fact the first amendment of your constitution makes it plainly clear that religious freedom is one of the founding principles of the United States. When the founding fathers were writing the constitution, there were numerous attempts to try to get a reference to God included, and those attempts were voted down every single time.

Ronald Reagan, 40th U.S. President, in his Feb. 3, 1983 Proclamation 5018, which declared 1983 as "The Year of the Bible," stated:
"The Bible and its teachings helped form the basis for the Founding Fathers' abiding belief in the inalienable rights of the individual, rights which they found implicit in the Bible's teachings of the inherent worth and dignity of each individual. This same sense of man patterned the convictions of those who framed the English system of law inherited by our own Nation, as well as the ideals set forth in the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution."

Our constitution was formed under the influence of the bible. If you read the real history of the men who formed our constitution you will find that the bible held great influence in developing it. I never said that everyone in the US are Christians. In fact, cults and atheism are on the rise here. And it is their mindset that has gotten us into the problems we have today. Where morality has been reduced to "whatever is right for the individual".

 

[Dave Ellis]

Ronald Reagan, 40th U.S. President, in his Feb. 3, 1983 Proclamation 5018, which declared 1983 as "The Year of the Bible," stated:
"The Bible and its teachings helped form the basis for the Founding Fathers' abiding belief in the inalienable rights of the individual, rights which they found implicit in the Bible's teachings of the inherent worth and dignity of each individual. This same sense of man patterned the convictions of those who framed the English system of law inherited by our own Nation, as well as the ideals set forth in the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution."

Our constitution was formed under the influence of the bible. If you read the real history of the men who formed our constitution you will find that the bible held great influence in developing it. I never said that everyone in the US are Christians. In fact, cults and atheism are on the rise here. And it is their mindset that has gotten us into the problems we have today. Where morality has been reduced to "whatever is right for the individual".

Well, unfortunately for you, the United States was founded long before 1983. If you want to look into the history of how the United States was founded, I suggest you pick up a history book. In it you can read about the founding fathers, and how the constitution was formed in the late 1700's, rather than referring to a proclamation that was written during my own lifetime!

And, sorry to say again, the decline of the United States has coincided with the rise of fundamentalism. Through the first 200 years of the country, religion was considered a fairly private matter. Many great people in American History were non-religious, and in some cases, anti-religious.

And trying to use the bible to promote the idea that humans have "worth and dignity" is absurd. The message contained in the bible is that we're all worthless sinners deserving of eternal damnation. How humans are portrayed in that book is quite disgusting actually.

And who is promoting the idea that morality is what's right for the individual? And trying to link Atheism to the countries problems is also insane... there are far more secular countries out there in far better shape than the U.S, both morally, and as societies in general.


Apart from that, please back up your assertion... What parts of the constitution can you point to and link a definitive biblical influence? I look forward to your answer.

 

[Shane Roach]

Note the aggressive attempt by socialist foreigners to trash God in America.

Our nation was formed with religious freedom. In particular, the Federal government is not supposed to interfere with people;s practice of religion. This has been a real issue for decades now, as socialists both here and abroad would rather see a system where the state destroys religion (Freedom of religion means freedom FROM religion. Seen the bumper stickers lately?) rather than to protect people's rights of freedom of religion.

And what is one of the internationalist socialist flagship issues? Why, baby killing of course. Because that's the one, true sign of a fully enlightened culture!

In fact, Christianity is on the rise world wide except in places where it has been placed at a political disadvantage, and many places where it is banned it flourishes. It takes the committed and dishonest interference by exceedingly subtle political activists, pushed over decades, to undermine Christian teachings. Largely because, for whatever reason (perhaps there really is a God?), the instant people abandon Christianity, their morals change, and notably for the worse.

Bragging about being heartless towards the unborn is hardly proof of a superior cultural value system.

 

[Shane Roach]

And trying to use the bible to promote the idea that humans have "worth and dignity" is absurd. The message contained in the bible is that we're all worthless sinners deserving of eternal damnation. How humans are portrayed in that book is quite disgusting actually.

Yeah, that must explain why the Germanics that conquered Christian Rome adopted the religion over the following centuries. Because it sucks sooooo badly.

You have NO clue what you're talking about, and you're being exceedingly insulting about it as well. What exactly is the point coming to a Christian website to say such openly hateful and illiterate things?

 

[Dave Ellis]

Note the aggressive attempt by socialist foreigners to trash God in America.

Hmm... Socialist foreigners?

Nice try, but I'm a member of the Conservative Party and have even volunteered at the local level for 2 of the last 3 federal elections. As I stated a couple posts ago, I firmly believe Ronald Reagan was one of the best presidents the United States ever had.

Not that facts ever got in the way of any of your posts or anything, but trying to label me as a socialist is patently absurd....

Our nation was formed with religious freedom. In particular, the Federal government is not supposed to interfere with people;s practice of religion. This has been a real issue for decades now, as socialists both here and abroad would rather see a system where the state destroys religion (Freedom of religion means freedom FROM religion. Seen the bumper stickers lately?) rather than to protect people's rights of freedom of religion.

Religious Freedom does not mean you have the right to impose your religion or religious views on other people. Furthermore, nobody has ever tried to legislate religion away or try to restrict people's right to hold a particular religious belief. If such legislation ever existed, I would fully oppose that as well.

You are as free to practice your religion now as you ever have been... you just don't have the right to force it down other people's throats, which has been done far too often in the past.

And what is one of the internationalist socialist flagship issues? Why, baby killing of course. Because that's the one, true sign of a fully enlightened culture!

I think socialism for the most part is a flawed ideaology as well.... but baby killing? Seriously... making statements like this just makes you look stupid.

In fact, Christianity is on the rise world wide except in places where it has been placed at a political disadvantage, and many places where it is banned it flourishes. It takes the committed and dishonest interference by exceedingly subtle political activists, pushed over decades, to undermine Christian teachings. Largely because, for whatever reason (perhaps there really is a God?), the instant people abandon Christianity, their morals change, and notably for the worse.

Christianity is on the rise in third world countries where the church is still allowed to run rampant, and is as destructive now as it was in 13th century Europe. As far as I'm concerned, the Catholic Church (among some protestant sects) has a lot of blood on it's hands for the African HIV pandemic, among other things.

In places where rational thought and education are valued over superstition and mythology, Christianity is on a sharp decline. And if you want to talk underhanded tactics and dishonesty, you can't top the church, so don't even go there!

As for morals changing for the worse when you abandon Christianity, please cite your sources.

Bragging about being heartless towards the unborn is hardly proof of a superior cultural value system.

Bragging about being heartless towards an actual human being incapable of supporting a pregnancy or child is far more repulsive. I don't want to see abortions happen either, but they certainly should not be made illegal.

 

[Dave Ellis]

Yeah, that must explain why the Germanics that conquered Christian Rome adopted the religion over the following centuries. Because it sucks sooooo badly.

You have NO clue what you're talking about, and you're being exceedingly insulting about it as well. What exactly is the point coming to a Christian website to say such openly hateful and illiterate things?

Wow.... You actually made me openly laugh.

Please, please read up on your history... the Germans at that time were already exposed to Christianity. For example, Odoacer, the man who overthrew the Western Empire in 476AD, was an Arian Christian his entire life and co-operated with the Catholic Church after conquering Rome.

A piece of advice: If you don't know what you're talking about, look it up first. Furthermore, trying to flame someone as illiterate or uninformed when you're posting blatantly incorrect assertions is not helping your case either.

If you actually knew your history, you would also be aware by that point the Roman Army was largely made up of mercenaries, many of them Germanic. The religion spread into what's now Germany long before the fall of Rome (granted, it did not become a majority until after Rome's fall).

The whole point of coming on here is to debate topics, which is what I'm doing. If you're insulted because I have a differing opinion to you, I'm sorry, but that's ultimately your problem.

I happen to believe ridiculous claims are deserving of ridicule, it's the best way to point out how absurd they are. If you don't want me ridiculing something you say, then post factually correct statements with valid points to be made, and I will address them with more respect.