Rain drops

[duordi]

Those that have read the creation story know that all of the water that caused Noah’s flood did not come from rain but due to the ocean floor rising.

Genesis 7
11 In the year 600 of Noah’s life, in the seventeenth day of the second month, that same day all the fountains of the great deep were broken up and burst forth, and the windows and floodgates of the heavens were opened.

There were two sources of water for the flood.
The primary cause for the flood was that the ocean bottoms rose which is listed first.
The second reason listed and therefore the less prominent source for the waters of the flood was rainfall.

I have found a way to estimate how much rain fell.

Fossils have been found containing rain drop marks.
The higher the atmospheric pressure the slower the rain drops must fall which causes smaller raindrop fossil impressions.
Based on the largest rain drops found in the fossils the pre-flood atmospheric pressure twice as high as it is today.

Source
Raindrop Fossils As Evidence Of A Warm Early Earth - Science News - redOrbit

If I make some assumptions:

1. The atmosphere before the flood was similar in temperature and gas concentrations.
2. The earths atmosphere can be estimated as a thin layer so I can assume a gravitational constant equal to sea level conditions.
3.The rain drop fossils were created during the flood.
4. The rain drop fossils were the largest possible.
5. The calculated atmosphere pressure was twice as high as it is today.

Then we can say that the loss in atmospheric pressure is about 2 atm - 1 atm = 1 atm

one atmosphere 1 atm = 14.7 PSI.

One cubic foot of water = 62.4 pounds.
A column of water 1" wide by 1" long and one foot high = 62.4 / 144 = 0.43 LB

To get a 14.7 PSI pressure change we will need 14.7 / 0.43 = 32 foot of rain fall.

The rest of the water was due to the ocean floor rising.

Your thoughts.

Duordi

 

[rikerjoe]

32 foot of rainfall? Not enough to make any difference.

And your "ocean floor rising" would work against it and still would not be enough.

 

[duordi]

State your assumptions.

Duordi

 

[Ronald]

Those that have read the creation story know that all of the water that caused Noah’s flood did not come from rain but due to the ocean floor rising.

It has rained as much as 42 inches in one day in Texas. multiply that by 40 and you get about 140 feet. Of course God could cause it to rain even harder than that. But most of it was from the "fountains", underground aquifers of water, theres miles deep of that down there. The other scenario is that an asteroid contributed to this flood. There is a 160 mile long crater in the Gulf of Mexico that could have been the big one. It could also have thrown the earth off it's axis, changed poles, etc., which is why they've found plant fossils in Antartica. Imagine an asteroid strikes the earth and pushes it causing a surge of water flooding the earth. ???

 

[duordi]

Good show!

Duordi

 

[loktai]

If it were an ice asteroid, Noah would not have survived due to a fatal dose of carbon monoxide. Also there is not enough water on earth, even if all the ice caps melted to cover the planet.

Considering the mantle is from 500 degrees celcius to 4000 degrees celcius (depending on how close you are to the core), and water starts turning into steam below 100 degrees celcius, then water held deep in the earth would have found a way out after being super heated.

 

[RickG]

Those that have read the creation story know that all of the water that caused Noah’s flood did not come from rain but due to the ocean floor rising.

There were two sources of water for the flood.
The primary cause for the flood was that the ocean bottoms rose which is listed first.
The second reason listed and therefore the less prominent source for the waters of the flood was rainfall.

I have found a way to estimate how much rain fell.

Fossils have been found containing rain drop marks.
The higher the atmospheric pressure the slower the rain drops must fall which causes smaller raindrop fossil impressions.
Based on the largest rain drops found in the fossils the pre-flood atmospheric pressure twice as high as it is today.

Source
Raindrop Fossils As Evidence Of A Warm Early Earth - Science News - redOrbit

If I make some assumptions:

1. The atmosphere before the flood was similar in temperature and gas concentrations.
2. The earths atmosphere can be estimated as a thin layer so I can assume a gravitational constant equal to sea level conditions.
3.The rain drop fossils were created during the flood.
4. The rain drop fossils were the largest possible.
5. The calculated atmosphere pressure was twice as high as it is today.

Then we can say that the loss in atmospheric pressure is about 2 atm - 1 atm = 1 atm

one atmosphere 1 atm = 14.7 PSI.

One cubic foot of water = 62.4 pounds.
A column of water 1" wide by 1" long and one foot high = 62.4 / 144 = 0.43 LB

To get a 14.7 PSI pressure change we will need 14.7 / 0.43 = 32 foot of rain fall.

The rest of the water was due to the ocean floor rising.

Your thoughts.

Duordi

It absolutely amazes me the length people will go to make things up in order to explain the biblical flood, while all along ignoring well known and understood facts that destroy their made up fantasies.

Might I suggest considering that the flood story is a teaching allegory rather than a literal factual event. I say that for a number of reasons.

1. Floods leave very specific and recognizable physical evidence. If a global flood occurred we would expect to see a layer of flood debris and deposits in the same place in the geologic column of the same age world-wide. That evidence does not exist. In fact the evidence that is there is contradictory to a global flood.
2. The forces required to lift the ocean floor is such a short period of time would turn the earth into a molten planet destroying all life.
3. The atmosphere is capable of holding only so much water. You are ignoring several laws of physics. The amount of water vapor in the atmosphere is dependent upon temperature and pressure. For the atmosphere to hold the required amount of water that temperature and pressure would be so high no life on earth could exist.
4. How much moisture is actually in the atmosphere. If all moisture in the atmosphere suddenly fell to the earth all at once it would cover the earth 1 inch deep in water.

My thoughts! You state a few facts concerning physical laws, but misapply them and ignore many, many others that make your idea completely impossible.

 

[Jamin4422]

Might I suggest considering that the flood story is a teaching allegory rather than a literal factual event.

In Matthew ch 19 we are told that Noah's flood is an example of what will happen at the end of the Church age that we are currently in. In Noah's day the earth was cleansed with water and a few survived to repopulate the earth. Now we are told that the earth will be cleansed with fire. Noah's flood was at the "great river Euphrates". Now we read about a future event at "the great river Euphrates" where "the third part of men killed".

Revelation 9:14 Saying to the sixth angel which had the trumpet, Loose the four angels which are bound in the great river Euphrates.

Revelation 9:15 And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men.

Revelation 9:16 And the number of the army of the horsemen [were] two hundred thousand thousand: and I heard the number of them.

Revelation 9:17 And thus I saw the horses in the vision, and them that sat on them, having breastplates of fire, and of jacinth, and brimstone: and the heads of the horses [were] as the heads of lions; and out of their mouths issued fire and smoke and brimstone.

Revelation 9:18 By these three was the third part of men killed, by the fire, and by the smoke, and by the brimstone, which issued out of their mouths.

Revelation 9:19 For their power is in their mouth, and in their tails: for their tails [were] like unto serpents, and had heads, and with them they do hurt.

Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts.

 

[Split Rock]

It has rained as much as 42 inches in one day in Texas. multiply that by 40 and you get about 140 feet. Of course God could cause it to rain even harder than that. But most of it was from the "fountains", underground aquifers of water, theres miles deep of that down there. The other scenario is that an asteroid contributed to this flood. There is a 160 mile long crater in the Gulf of Mexico that could have been the big one. It could also have thrown the earth off it's axis, changed poles, etc., which is why they've found plant fossils in Antartica. Imagine an asteroid strikes the earth and pushes it causing a surge of water flooding the earth. ???

One can imagine all sorts of things, but the biblical account does not mention any asteroid impact. It always amazes me that people who want to take the GEN accounts as literal history will have no qualms about adding all sorts of imaginings to it.

 

[selfinflikted]

I don't know why, but it amazes me that people still believe in a literal Noachian flood. It's a story, people. That's all.

 

[And-U-Say]

Those that have read the creation story know that all of the water that caused Noah’s flood did not come from rain but due to the ocean floor rising.

<snipped to prevent brain damage>

Then we can say that the loss in atmospheric pressure is about 2 atm - 1 atm = 1 atm

one atmosphere 1 atm = 14.7 PSI.

One cubic foot of water = 62.4 pounds.
A column of water 1" wide by 1" long and one foot high = 62.4 / 144 = 0.43 LB

To get a 14.7 PSI pressure change we will need 14.7 / 0.43 = 32 foot of rain fall.

The rest of the water was due to the ocean floor rising.

Your thoughts.

Duordi

There is just a whole lot of physics that you get wrong here. You can't just arbitrarily put a bunch of water in to vapor phase. You may want to take some high school chemistry.

And the waters of the great deep don't work either. Water welling up from giant caverns beneath the ocean would NEVER shoot up into the sky. And the crustal deformation that would be needed would indeed heat the surface of the earth and kill all life.

AIG is NOT a good source for information.

 

[RickG]

It always amazes me that people who want to take the GEN accounts as literal history will have no qualms about adding all sorts of imaginings to it.

Exactly, thay want it to be literal but have to make a bunch of stuff up to make it literal. It just doesn't work.

 

[Eliu]

Your thoughts.

Duordi

Go on with your work!
Sure that the waters covered the continents (single at start, "pieces" after) for rising of ocean bottoms. Continents were covered for 2 km of water.
Rainfall was a smaller part of it, correct.
Not bad calculation.
God bless you!

 

[loktai]

That makes no sense at all

 

[duordi]

Floods leave very specific and recognizable physical evidence. If a global flood occurred we would expect to see a layer of flood debris and deposits in the same place in the geologic column of the same age world-wide. That evidence does not exist. In fact the evidence that is there is contradictory to a global flood.

Like the world would be covered in sedimentary rock, and there would be sea shells everywhere, oh wait, that is what we have.

The forces required to lift the ocean floor is such a short period of time would turn the earth into a molten planet destroying all life.

Well not bad for making great claims with no assumptions or factual basis. Not only that but you were very close, all but eight people died.

The atmosphere is capable of holding only so much water. You are ignoring several laws of physics. The amount of water vapor in the atmosphere is dependent upon temperature and pressure. For the atmosphere to hold the required amount of water that temperature and pressure would be so high no life on earth could exist.

That is interesting because some evolutionist think that the Earth had an atmosphere which was possibly twice as dense as today's atmosphere and no mention is made of the planet melting.


Study Reveals Ancient Atmosphere Exerted More Pressure | TopNews United States

How much moisture is actually in the atmosphere. If all moisture in the atmosphere suddenly fell to the earth all at once it would cover the earth 1 inch deep in water.

You know, that might be why God told Noah the whole Earth was not going to flood again.

Genesis 8
11 I will establish My covenant or pledge with you: Never again shall all flesh be cut off by the waters of a flood; neither shall there ever again be a flood to destroy the earth and make it corrupt.

Duordi

 

[duordi]

The water above did what it was designed to do.

As God finished each portion of the creation He proclaimed it good.

Every part except for the "water above".
It was not proclaimed good because it's purpose was judgement which is never Gods preference.

Do I believe that God preformed acts which I do not understand during the creation week? There is little point in believing in God if I restrict Him to the limits of my own intelligence.

At the same time God uses the physical laws I understand the vast majority of the time.

Duordi

 

[duordi]

Which part?

Duordi

 

[Wiccan_Child]

Like the world would be covered in sedimentary rock, and there would be sea shells everywhere, oh wait, that is what we have.

Pay closer attention to what RickG said: "If a global flood occurred we would expect to see a layer of flood debris and deposits in the same place in the geologic column of the same age world-wide." - we most certainly don't see that (though by all means, prove me wrong).

If there was a global flood, we'd see the same deposit everywhere. Floods leave well-documented signs of their passing, and nowhere do we see such signs in the same point in time across the globe.

Well not bad for making great claims with no assumptions or factual basis. Not only that but you were very close, all but eight people died.

It's interesting that you lambaste RickG for "making great claims with no assumptions or factual basis", and in the same breath proclaim - without any cited evidence - that eight people survived a global flood.

That is interesting because some evolutionist think that the Earth had an atmosphere which was possibly twice as dense as today's atmosphere and no mention is made of the planet melting.

Study Reveals Ancient Atmosphere Exerted More Pressure | TopNews United States

The atmosphere may well have been twice as dense way back when, but we're not talking an increase that small - the atmosphere would need to be many orders of magnitude more dense, thousands, millions of times denser.

Given that there's about 10 to 20 x 10[sup]15[/sup] kg of water in the atmosphere, if this suddenly condensed, that would cover the Earth to spectacular depth of about 22mm. Even if the entire atmosphere was 100% water, this would only raise the depth to about 130mm. Thus, to cover the Earth to the height of Mt. Everest - or, indeed, to even dampen the feet of a child - we need a much more dense atmosphere. As RickG rightfully points out, this density would kill all life in a hellish firestorm. We wouldn't have rain because the atmosphere would be solid.

And that's ignoring the problem of how to spontaneously condense all the Earth's water.

You know, that might be why God told Noah the whole Earth was not going to flood again.

Because it's physically impossible?

 

[Wiccan_Child]

The water above did what it was designed to do.

As God finished each portion of the creation He proclaimed it good.

Every part except for the "water above".
It was not proclaimed good because it's purpose was judgement which is never Gods preference.

Do I believe that God preformed acts which I do not understand during the creation week? There is little point in believing in God if I restrict Him to the limits of my own intelligence.

At the same time God uses the physical laws I understand the vast majority of the time.

Duordi

Then what's the point in even trying to come up with these tortured mathematics? Why not just proclaim, "It was all miracles!", and call it a day?

 

[loktai]

This has been covered before.... but this video is entertaining:

Why do people laugh at creationists? (part 3). - YouTube