Romney just cost himself the election

[stamperben]

Can you prove that 47% do not pay "taxes" and all will vote for Obama?

What is being missed here is that a lot of his southern base is exactly out of that 47%.

 

[JCSr]

What is being missed here is that a lot of his southern base is exactly out of that 47%.

Which makes Rmoney's comment an insult to many people who may vote for him. If there are 47% of people in America who pay no taxes will vote for Obammy, how many people in America actually pay no taxes?

 

[TeddyReceptus]

What is being missed here is that a lot of his southern base is exactly out of that 47%.

I am loving Mitt's attempts at "damage control" today. He's not backing down from the statement and his supporters want us to not think about the fact that Romney wrote off 47% of America as too lazy to take care of themselves and will hence not be voting for him and remember that there are some people who pay no taxes and feel that government programs are something they are entitled to.

Which of course might be sorta kinda true but IS NOT HALF OF THE US POPULATION.

Mitt stepped in it now. He's always been an aristocrat, we just now realize that when he's on "the Throne" some of us will only be deserving of the "let them eat cake" line.

I'm going to vote for Obama. Am I a lazy welfare queen? Ummm, no, I probably make more than 50% of the people on this board. I have 3 university degrees and work as a white collar researcher.

But I guess since I won't be voting for Romney I must be too lazy to take care of myself and just hoping that I'll be able to get some of that sweeeet government money! (You know, like Paul Ryan did to go to college.)

There can be no other reason why I'd vote for Obama! None!

 

[Thekla]

I frankly think that most people would prefer to be earning enough to cover all their expenses; further, there are many people who opt not to apply for govt. assistance they are qualified to receive.

I also think there is more than one "class" who demonstrate an entitlement mentality; for example, taking every tax loophole they are legally entitled to use, and relying on "aggressive" readings of tax law to minimize their payment.

 

[Illuminaughty]

there are many people who opt not to apply for govt. assistance they are qualified to receive.

That was one of the things that made his statement so outrageous imo. He doesn't realize that some people don't earn enough to pay income tax and yet aren't receiving government assistance. I was in that boat for a while. I never applied for welfare, SNAP, housing, etc.. The two are not synonymous. He is assuming poor = not responsible too. That assumption could only come from a person who lived their life with a silver spoon in their mouth.

 

[jpcedotal]

I think you are on to something. It's called truth.

Oh, and you can switch candidate with Party too.

+1

 

[variant]

Exactly.

Out here in middle America, try being a single parent who works all their life for an hourly wage... it's not difficult to not pay any federal income tax because of the tax credits.

There are plenty of voter out there working for a living, and seeing the failure and harm that Obama is doing, yet not paying income tax... too bad Romney doesn't want to work for those votes.

It's a hard sell to a low wage worker who does support themselves that everything would just get better if we lowered taxes mainly for rich people again.

The problem is that it is the only thing the Republicans are pitching.

Of course Romney looks awkward pitching such ideas as if they are a magic bullet for the economy, even he knows he is full of it.

 

[whatbogsends]

I've got a question. How much "work" is actually being covered for these "leeches." I mean, Romney apparently believes that 6 individuals of the "hard working" type like himself can do the work of 42% of those people, so to cover the 5% would take what, 7 or 8? What's the problem if only 8 people are needed to make up the work?

You're conflating income with wealth. Those 6 people may have more wealth than the bottom 42% combined, but they don't have more income. For those ~120,000,000 people, we would probably need almost 24,000 of those "high producers" to cover the job (5000:1 ratio).

However, as has already been discussed (and shown to be rather obvious to all but the most diehard "job creator"-meme supporters), productivity is not directly correlated with income (even remotely!). It is other economic factors (scarcity of people willing to work for $10 million/year - nah, that can't be it... oh yeah, those with those intangible and undefinable "CEO skills") that cause the disparity of income. Productivity doesn't quite factor into the equation as much as one might think (meritocracies are for whiners!).

 

[Thekla]

That was one of the things that made his statement so outrageous imo. He doesn't realize that some people don't earn enough to pay income tax and yet aren't receiving government assistance. I was in that boat for a while. I never applied for welfare, SNAP, housing, etc.. The two are no synonymous. He is assuming poor = not responsibly too. That assumption could only come from a person who lived their life with a silver spoon in their mouth.

Exactly. In some cases, earning enough to pay taxes is a sort of victory.

Thus, there are some people who qualify for government assistance and don't take it.
There are some who qualify for government assistance via tax law (ie, low capital gains rates to supposedly assist/encourage investment) who do take the break they are entitled to.

There is certainly a difference in ethos between these two ...

 

[TeddyReceptus]

I frankly think that most people would prefer to be earning enough to cover all their expenses; further, there are many people who opt not to apply for govt. assistance they are qualified to receive.

I also think there is more than one "class" who demonstrate an entitlement mentality; for example, taking every tax loophole they are legally entitled to use, and relying on "aggressive" readings of tax law to minimize their payment.

Very true! This idea of the "welfare queen" was first trotted out during the 80's and it is no more true now than then. If there are people who are that lazy they make up only a small, tiny percentage of Americans.

To suggest that for some reason nearly half of us are too lazy to wipe our own behinds is grossly insulting.

But then Mitt isn't running for President of the U.S. Mitt is running for "Mitt's Bucket List". Gotta check off all the fun things you can do in life and how much power you can amass.

The people Mitt has to please are the 1% who will buy an election for him.

Now Mitt can technically win by relying only on the 53% of "REAL AMERICANS", but he will need every single one of them and that's got to be scary.

Because some of us are actually reasonably well off and will vote for Obama.

But at least Mitt has one ally in the "Welfare Queen" voter bloc: Paul Ryan

Paul embodies much of what Mitt was talking about: Paul relied on U.S. government welfare money to go to college, Paul's only real job outside of US government was 1 year for grandfather's company that itself got a lot of money from government contracts. So Mitt knows at least one welfare king who will vote for him!

 

[Thekla]

Very true! This idea of the "welfare queen" was first trotted out during the 80's and it is no more true now than then. If there are people who are that lazy they make up only a small, tiny percentage of Americans.

To suggest that for some reason nearly half of us are too lazy to wipe our own behinds is grossly insulting.

But then Mitt isn't running for President of the U.S. Mitt is running for "Mitt's Bucket List". Gotta check off all the fun things you can do in life and how much power you can amass.

The people Mitt has to please are the 1% who will buy an election for him.

Now Mitt can technically win by relying only on the 53% of "REAL AMERICANS", but he will need every single one of them and that's got to be scary.

Because some of us are actually reasonably well off and will vote for Obama.

But at least Mitt has one ally in the "Welfare Queen" voter bloc: Paul Ryan

Paul embodies much of what Mitt was talking about: Paul relied on U.S. government welfare money to go to college, Paul's only real job outside of US government was 1 year for grandfather's company that itself got a lot of money from government contracts. So Mitt knows at least one welfare king who will vote for him!

Given the recent studies on wealth and lax morality, Romney's 'writing off' of people who work hard and don't earn much is moreso troubling:

Earnings Quality: Evidence from the Field by Ilia Dichev, John Graham, Campbell Harvey, Shivaram Rajgopal :: SSRN
(Misstated earnings, aprox. 20%)

Self-Interest Spurs Society’s ‘Elite’ to Lie, Cheat on Tasks, Study Finds - Bloomberg
(Seven studies reviewed - relationship of income to moral behavior)

Many Wall Street executives says wrongdoing is necessary: survey | Reuters
(A quarter of Wall St. execs say cheating necessary for success)

 

[Sistrin]

You can't see how that might be a little insulting to people who are scraping buy during this economic downturn?

Here is the aspect you either don't see or choose to ignore. After three plus years of the Obama administration the US economy is in a shambles, people are suffering because of Obama's policies, there is a economic downturn because of Obama's policies, more people are unemployed because of Obama's policies, more people are on food stamps because of Obama's policies, and Romney isn't responsible for any of it.

But Obama can't run on his record and his supporters can't allow his record to be the issue, so they manufacture issues such as this one.

He is lumping nearly half the American population into the irresponsible category because he doesn't understand their plight.

In one sense I suppose Obama does understand their plight. He understands that if he can keep those in the lower income brackets in the lower income brackets he can continue his campaign of class warfare alive and effective, and that is exactly what he is doing. You think for one minute Obama wants to elevate the standard of living for the poor, you seriously need to think again. He has stated himself the goal of students graduating from college should be to achieve middle class status.

Actually I'm kinda sad. I honestly didn't know you had no idea what common courtesy related to quotes included.

Can you stop beating the dead horse now? No one cares about your quote fetish or your pyrrhic victory.

No, Jeff, I tend to get mad when people attribute an altered quote to me without the proper indication of deletions.

Oh for pity's sake.

What's also funny is the place this family values candidate spoke at is the Boca Raton home of Marc Leder, a hedge fund manager that enjoys throwing kinky sex parties... His ex-wife enjoyed telling everyone about them I guess.

And Leder's failings are Romney's fault how? Besides, liberals love sexual perversion, so I am surprised you are not hailing this as awesome or some such.

Also, part of his fortune was made from a company that disposed of post-abortion fetal remains.

An issue dealt with here some time ago. The central point concerning this charge is liberals love abortion, liberals champion abortion, liberals want abortion unfettered, so it is kind of hypocritical to feign outrage over the fact someone makes money off of cleaning up after all those abortions liberals demanded take place.

 

[Thekla]

The troubles of the US economy are hardly sourced to one person, nor are 'fixable' short term

 

[abysmul]

The troubles of the US economy are hardly sourced to one person, nor are 'fixable' short term

It certainly sits on the shoulders of the two parties that have been in power, and anyone who claims that either of the two current parties can "fix" the economy sure haven't been paying attention to what the two parties have been doing for years.

Actions speak louder than words. Their actions have carried us right to where we are today, and we have two presidential candidates that offer nothing new.

 

[TeddyReceptus]

Here is the aspect you either don't see or choose to ignore. After three plus years of the Obama administration the US economy is in a shambles, people are suffering because of Obama's policies

See, this is where an appreciation of American History comes in handy. It was quite a long hard slog for most people during the Great Depression. It took more than 3 years to dig out of that mess, even if the economy had ups and downs during the 30's.

To expect Obama to clear up, in only 3-4 years a mess nearly 30 years in the making is to assume the President has some awesome powers. Sorry but this is, still, a free market economy. Not a top-down mandated economy.

We want change, we can't completely rely on the government to do it for us! That's kind of how a free market works.

, there is a economic downturn because of Obama's policies, more people are unemployed because of Obama's policies, more people are on food stamps because of Obama's policies, and Romney isn't responsible for any of it.

Any facts to support that claim?

But Obama can't run on his record

Technically speaking, Mitt can't either. Because Mitt used to be (just a couple short years ago:

1. OK with a woman's right to choose
2. The governor who oversaw the architecture for what ultimately became Obamacare
3. A moderate
4. A man who made money off of what other people actually did build, while building nothing of his own except a "portfolio"

and his supporters can't allow his record to be the issue, so they manufacture issues such as this one.

The Republicans, however, don't have to "manufacture" anything... Mitt is manufacturing Mitt 2012 for them from whole cloth!

In one sense I suppose Obama does understand their plight. He understands that if he can keep those in the lower income brackets in the lower income brackets he can continue his campaign of class warfare alive and effective,

This is such unrelenting ****-**** from the Right it grows tiring. Have you guys ever in all the years you've been trying to pedal this garbage found an actual example of an American President who said "Gee, I want to see more Americans doing worse so I can do better!"

Unlike some politicians who clearly stated that their goal was to ensure Obama was a one term president, despite the fact that their goal should have been to ensure Americans were doing better.

I did hear that.

Can you stop beating the dead horse now? No one cares about your quote fetish or your pyrrhic victory.

It isn't pyrrhic. I got him to change the way he quoted me.

Again, if you like to play "loosey goosey" with other people's quotes you will likely wind up in some amount of trouble. But I get it: the Right really doesn't care about technical accuracy, just use quotes however you feel.

Oh for pity's sake.

Get off it. This has nothing to do with you. If you don't like standard common courtesy in regards to how you represent other people's words then get a job with the GOP.

An issue dealt with here some time ago. The central point concerning this charge is liberals love abortion

That is a grotesque mischaracterization.

You don't even know what you are talking about. FAIL.

Geez. I am fascinated that Conservatives fail so often at simple logic! SIMPLE LOGIC! You guys don't seem to care about common courtesy in regards to how other people think and you think mischaracterizing the words and actions of others is just A-OK!

Well it's not.

I'm a liberal and I'm PRO-CHOICE, but that doesn't mean I love abortion!!!

What it means is that if I were in a position to have to choose I would not want someone else dictating to me what I would be required to do with my own body under penalty of law.

If I were a woman who found herself in a tricky situation you can be guaranteed I would be in abject misery over that choice and no doubt 99.99999% of women who do ARE quite unhappy with the choice.

BUT THE CHOICE NEEDS TO BE AVAILABLE.

Because not everyone is as "good" as you or follows your morality or has your infinite supply of time and money to support a pregnancy and/or unwanted child.

Face it: All Republicans are just BETTER PEOPLE. No Republican has ever espoused a moral stance and then done the exact opposite when the chips were down. It has never happened.

And so it should never be available for people who aren't good people like Republicans.

Please, learn some logic, learn some acceptance of other people's world view.

And remember at all times that PRO-CHOICE =/= PRO-ABORTION.

no one is forcing anyone to get an abortion against their will

(Now maybe you see why I get pedantic about the little things like "quotes" when you guys just go right ahead and grossly mischaracterize what Liberals believe and do!)

 

[Illuminaughty]

But Obama can't run on his record and his supporters can't allow his record to be the issue, so they manufacture issues such as this one

I'm not even voting for Obama. I was discussing Romney in this thread. If you want to start another thread on how horrible Obama has been then I'm sure I could add a few things to the list. I have some grievances with him too but they are probably not the same as yours. I don't like the fact that he has been governing as a center right crony capitalist carrying on with the same basic policies as Bush even go so far as to sign a continuation of the Bush tax cuts.

He understands that if he can keep those in the lower income brackets in the lower income brackets he can continue his campaign of class warfare alive and effective

So he is trying to keep the economy bad so people will vote for him? I really think improving things so that the poor succeed would get him a lot more votes.

You think for one minute Obama wants to elevate the standard of living for the poor, you seriously need to think again.

I doubt it's his highest concern.

class warfare

It's precisely the one percent who have been waging class warfare. Successfully I might add. Obama is on their side too.

 

[Touma]

It just gets better:

A 'kick-the-ball-down-the-field' style of leadership - The Maddow Blog

From that same video, he is seen talking about foreign policy....suggesting that the US just kick the can down the road. Talk about leading from behind...

 

[Touma]

And he is losing conservatives:

A Note on Romney’s Arrogant and Stupid Remarks | The Weekly Standard (Bill Kristol)

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/18/opinion/brooks-thurston-howell-romney.html?_r=1&ref=opinion (david brooks)

 

[Illuminaughty]

I'm wondering if the Republican elite want Romney to loose. Maybe they are afraid the economy is going to tank soon so they want Obama to be there when it happens. They know congress will be unable to come to any agreement and we will fall of the fiscal cliff.

 

[mathetes123]

I'm wondering if the Republican elite want Romney to loose. Maybe they are afraid the economy is going to tank soon so they want Obama to be there when it happens. They know congress will be unable to come to any agreement and we will fall of the fiscal cliff.

Why do you claim the United Nations as your country?