Why an eternal hell? (2)

[holo]

only in the old testament does soul mean life, in the new testament the definition is entirely different.

Can you back that up?

 

[holo]

what about all the verses that say eternal death?

Exactly, eternal DEATH. As in never being alive ever again. Like the plants on my window sill, they've died and will be dead eternally. So if aion does in fact mean eternal/neverending in those verses it's talking about eternal death, not eternal dying.

 

[holo]

if they deserve to be punished forever, he can be just and still do it.

True. But to deserve to be punished forever, one would have to sin forever.

 

[Armistead14]

True. But to deserve to be punished forever, one would have to sin forever.

No, in order to deserve punishment forever, Christ would have to be punished forever.

 

[dollarsbill]

Yes, we compare Him to a civil judge, that's why we conclude that He can not give righteous judgment AND condemn anyone to eternal suffering. The whole basis of justice is to give people what they deserve.

God being omnipotent and omniscient can indeed proclaim the sentence of eternal punishment in Hell. Who will correct Him?

 

[Black36]

True. But to deserve to be punished forever, one would have to sin forever.

I see it different. There are different degrees of wrongness for the same crime, due to who the crime was committed against. For example:

Shooting a homeless person
Shooting a cop
Shooting the President

A crime committed against a finite being deserves a finite punishment.
A crime committed against an infinite being deserves an infinite punishment.

 

[dollarsbill]

The false prophet or 'mouthpiece' which gives power to the beast or antichrist is the modern day false church which is carnal and self serving.

The false prophet is a person who will be tormented in the fire forever.

 

[dollarsbill]

Here's another perspective I thought of:

Hell is being in a state of an absolute lack of hope, forever.

Hell is a place, the eternal fire.

 

[createdtoworship]

True. But to deserve to be punished forever, one would have to sin forever.

that theory fails even in your own view, the wages of sin is death. Do we deserve to be killed for stealing a paper clip? not really in your opinion, but that thats how God is. Right?

 

[dollarsbill]

Alright, torment then. But eternal torment pretty much amounts to torture, especially considering that it's, well, eternal. In any case, it can not be both everlasting and fair.

Who are you to judge God?

 

[createdtoworship]

Exactly, eternal DEATH. As in never being alive ever again. Like the plants on my window sill, they've died and will be dead eternally. So if aion does in fact mean eternal/neverending in those verses it's talking about eternal death, not eternal dying.

same thing, and you can't prove otherwise.

 

[dollarsbill]

For those that believe in everlasting hell, when do you feel those lost will be thrown in there? Will it be after everyone bows and confesses Christ as Lord?

At their final judgment.

Revelation 20:15 (NASB)
15 And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

 

[dollarsbill]

confessing Lordship does not save,

When they stand before God they won't be able to deny His existence any longer. But that won't give them salvation.

 

[dollarsbill]

Where did you get the idea that torture is an aspect of hell?

Luke 16, Rev 14 and 20. Weeping and gnashing of teeth, etc.

 

[dollarsbill]

Exactly, eternal DEATH. As in never being alive ever again. Like the plants on my window sill, they've died and will be dead eternally. So if aion does in fact mean eternal/neverending in those verses it's talking about eternal death, not eternal dying.

Death does not mean 'cease to exist'. That is TOTAL myth.

 

[dollarsbill]

No, in order to deserve punishment forever, Christ would have to be punished forever.

Scripture please.

 

[createdtoworship]

Can you back that up?

yeah the greek word for soul has two definitions, one for life, and one non physical aspect different from the body.

here is just one of many examples of lexicons offering this:

H2416
Thayer:
1) breath
1a) the breath of life
1a1) the vital force which animates the body and shows itself in breathing
1a1a) of animals
1a12) of men
1b) life
1c) that in which there is life
1c1) a living being, a living soul
2) the soul
2a) the seat of the feelings, desires, affections, aversions (our heart, soul etc.)
2b) the (human) soul in so far as it is constituted that by the right use of the aids offered it by God it can attain its highest end and secure eternal blessedness, the soul regarded as a moral being designed for everlasting life
2c) the soul as an essence which differs from the body and is not dissolved by death (distinguished from other parts of the body)

 

[createdtoworship]

It's inflicted in the sense that God puts one into a state of utter isolation, it's an indirect torment. If that makes sense, in my view.

how is it indirect?

 

[Black36]

Hell is a place, the eternal fire.

I see the "eternal fire" as metaphor for something infinitely worse. When second death occurs, one seperated from one's body again, therefore they are not physical in hell, therefore no eternal fire, fire is physical, so its a metaphor for something waaaaaaaaay worse.

 

[Black36]

how is it indirect?

It's like Pharoah in exodus. God hardened pharoah's heart, not by doing something directly in pharoah's heart, but through the actions of Moses and the miracles God allowed. God hardened Pharoah's heart indirectly. I see torment in hell as being imposed by God, by God completely removing Himself from the one in hell. Meaning His self removal causes torment. God torments by not doing anything. Thoughts? (assuming this is coherent) haha