Why an eternal hell?

[dies-l]

More like...

A: "I believe you're wrong in your belief that nonbelievers are not tormented in Hell forever".
B: "Why?"
A: "Because the Bible teaches over and over again that the price of sin is the second (spiritual) death, which is eternal torment in fire that ascends forever and ever in the presence of the Lamb and the angels."
B: "No because it just says the place of hell lasts forever, not the people being tormented. I can't believe in a God that would eternally torment people. That isn't just."
A: "What is the point of hell lasting forever when its purpose does not last forever? That's like emphasizing a jail cell that is eventually empty for the rest of eternity. It doesn't make sense."
B: "No, because only three people are eternally there. Satan, the beast, and the false prophet in Revelation."
A: "So you are fine with a God that can eternally torment three people for eternity, but not any more than that? So three is the limit for you, huh?"
B: "....."
A: "........?"
B: "The Bible clearly says that the wages of sin is death and the fate of the wicked is their destruction; it never says anything about them be subject to eternal torment."
A: So you took 2 Thessalonians 1:8-9 out of your Bible? A single verse has debunked two of your arguments. First, hell is the fate of ALL who "do not know God and obey the gospel" and not just three people. Second, the destruction is EVERLASTING. Not the "place."
B: "....You're just ignoring my posts. Go back and read the rest of the thread."
A:

This from the one who has admittedly not read the arguments made in this thread. : clap:

 

[createdtoworship]

You are right that there is a lot of that going on from those who insist on eternal torment.

This is how the discussion has gone so far:

A: "I don't believe that nonbelievers are tormented in Hell forever".
B: "Why not?"
A: "Because the Bible teaches over and over again that the price of sin is death and destruction, not eternal torment."
B: "What about this verse that says that Hell lasts forever"?
A: "That verse says that Hell lasts forever, but says nothing about people being tormented there forever".
B: "Well what about this verse that talks about weeping and gnashing of teeth?"
A: "That verse is interesting, but once again, nothing about non-believers being tormented eternally in Hell."
B: "Well, what about this verse that says "they" will tormented forever?"
A: "The 'they' in that verse refers to the beast, the false prophet, and the devil, not to non-believers on the whole. In fact the specificity of that verse undermines the claim that eternal torment is the general fate of non-believers."
B: "Well, are you saying that the false prophet is not a non-believer?"
A: "No, I am saying that the false prophet is not all non-believers."
B: "Well, why do keep saying that Hell doesn't exist? I've shown you plenty of verses to show that it does."
A: "I have never said that Hell doesn't exist. In fact, I believe that it does exist and probably lasts forever."
B: "Then why do you keep saying that it's not eternal? If eternal life is eternal, then so is eternal hell?"
A: "I have not claimed that hell is not eternal?"
B: "Why do you keep ignoring what the Bible clearly says?"
A: "The Bible clearly says that the wages of sin is death and the fate of the wicked is their destruction; it never says anything about them be subject to eternal torment."
B: "But what about . . . [repeat the same 4 or 5 prooftexts as before]"
A: [Point out that those 4 or 5 prooftexts don't say what the ETs think they do]
B: "Hmph! Why do you keep ignoring Scripture?!?!?!?"
A:

oops you need another section explaining this one:

Thrown into the lake of Fire
"And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever."

Lake of Fire
Rev. 20:15, "And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire."

 

[createdtoworship]

I think you may be spiritualizing the question too much. If someone kidnapped my kid, I would much rather know that he would be drowned in 5 minutes than that he would be repeatedly drowned for 3 weeks. Wouldn't you?

If they are the same thing it should make no difference.

actually no, I'd rather not want them dead. You can recover from torture, not from death.

 

[seeingeyes]

actually no, I'd rather not want them dead. You can recover from torture, not from death.

But you don't get them back. That's the point.

 

[dies-l]

oops you need another section explaining this one:

Thrown into the lake of Fire
"And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever."

Already dealt with that one!

Lake of Fire
Rev. 20:15, "And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire."

Where's the eternal torment in that one? Common sense would say that a "lake of fire" might torture for a period, but will ultimately destroy. In fact, the previously cited verse went on to explain that, unlike normal circumstances, the devil, the beast, and the false prophet don't get the luxury of an end to their torment. You'd think that if the same were true for anyone whose name is not found written in the book of life. The fact that the two passages read differently in this regard would indicate a different fate for the subjects of each.

It would be a lot like if I said, "if you murder, you will go to prison, where you will stay for the rest of your life" and then later on said, "if you steal, you will go to prison." Your logic would infer based on those two sentences that the penalty for stealing is life in prison, but that logic is flawed, as I hope this example makes clear.

 

[createdtoworship]

Already dealt with that one!



Where's the eternal torment in that one? Common sense would say that a "lake of fire" might torture for a period, but will ultimately destroy. In fact, the previously cited verse went on to explain that, unlike normal circumstances, the devil, the beast, and the false prophet don't get the luxury of an end to their torment. You'd think that if the same were true for anyone whose name is not found written in the book of life. The fact that the two passages read differently in this regard would indicate a different fate for the subjects of each.

It would be a lot like if I said, "if you murder, you will go to prison, where you will stay for the rest of your life" and then later on said, "if you steal, you will go to prison." Your logic would infer based on those two sentences that the penalty for stealing is life in prison, but that logic is flawed, as I hope this example makes clear.

ooops you forgot there is only 5 verses in between the above verses.

 

[Metal Minister]

Here's a thought ( I know I said I was walking away but I had forgotten to unsubscribe and I apparently want to eternally torture myself) the soul is non-corporeal right? Fire only destroys physical things right? Now we know from any of the passages on hell that the soul is concious and can feel pain right? Then how can fire ( a corporeal thing ) ever fully consume a persons soul ( a non-corporeal thing )? A little simplistic I know, but it proves a point.

May God Richly Bless you!

 

[dollarsbill]

Why does He have to do what He said? He can do what He wants.

Hebrews 6:18 (NASB)
18 so that by two unchangeable things in which it is impossible for God to lie, we who have taken refuge would have strong encouragement to take hold of the hope set before us.

 

[dollarsbill]

He did. And do you believe God chose, in other words wanted to create billions of people just to torture them forever and ever after a short while on earth?

He created everyone exactly as He chose to do.

Proverbs 16:4 (NASB)
4 The LORD has made everything for its own purpose, Even the wicked for the day of evil.

 

[dollarsbill]

Absolutely. Now, has anybody here said that God can't burn humans forever?

Glad you think He can. And He will.

 

[dollarsbill]

Also, ask yourself this question. If a person denied God in life, why would they suddenly love Him in hell? They wouldn't. They would continue to hate God, and considering our souls are eternal, that hatred would continue eternally. If you continue to hate God, why would He be just in simply ending your suffering when you were placed in suffering for hatred of God? He would be rewarding you by ending your punishment even though you hadn't repented.

May God Richly Bless you!

Even annihilation would be GREAT reward compared to burning forever.

 

[dollarsbill]

Your article doesn't make a convicing case. You cite a lot of verses dealing with the dead being resurrected and judged. They don't say that the unrighteous will then be given eternal life. The bible speaks about "the second death" - everybody shall be raised from the grave, and everybody shall be judged. The righteous ones will be given eternal life, the others will be given death, which is the wages of sin.

Death does not mean 'cease to exist'.

 

[Blessedj01]

There are rules against spamming, dollarsbill.

 

[dollarsbill]

There are rules against spamming, dollarsbill.

Your point?

 

[dies-l]

ooops you forgot there is only 5 verses in between the above verses.

Okay? And this makes my point any less valid how exactly?

 

[dies-l]

Glad you think He can. And He will.

Now, will you acknowledge that God can annihilate people?

 

[dies-l]

Even annihilation would be GREAT reward compared to burning forever.

Wow! You are grasping at straws now to make your point. The fact that you can think of a worse punishment does not make the lesser punishment a reward. Could you imagine a parent who told their kids, "being grounded is a GREAT reward compared to me violently abusing you everyday"?

 

[dollarsbill]

Wow! You are grasping at straws now to make your point. The fact that you can think of a worse punishment does not make the lesser punishment a reward. Could you imagine a parent who told their kids, "being grounded is a GREAT reward compared to me violently abusing you everyday"?

Are you saying that you would rather burn in Hell forever?

 

[dollarsbill]

Now, will you acknowledge that God can annihilate people?

He can, but the NT says torment forever in the fire.

 

[Armistead14]

Glad you think He can. And He will.

I assume you're aware ET was hardly a part of the early church, more around the 4th century that it became doctrine. It was at this time ET doctrine was progressed with aspects of paganism by men like Dante.

Anyway, the church felt just, in if God would torture heretics, sinners, apostates, etc...they could also be just in doing the same thing, so the church became an agent of torture for several hundred more years, after if God could do it, why couldn't they?

Do you feel the church was "just" in torturing basically anyone that went against it, thus God?