Why an eternal hell?

[dies-l]

So then you would choose annihilation over eternity in Hell? So then it's not really "nonsense".

Yes, it is nonsense, because you accuse me of saying exactly the opposite. And, FTR, I wouldn't choose either; I have chosen salvation by grace through faith in Christ. And, since the only choice we are given in Scripture is salvation or death, I would say that that is the only choice that matters.

 

[seeingeyes]

remember you offered an illustration saying you would rather have your child drown in 5 minutes than have them repeatedly drowned for weeks. And I said at least they recover from torture, they are not dead.

It was about your illustration, not Hell persay

but even in Hell we may not get them back but they are alive.

So if the child ends up dead either way, would you rather he be tortured for 5 minutes or tortured for 3 weeks?

 

[dollarsbill]

Yes, it is nonsense, because you accuse me of saying exactly the opposite. And, FTR, I wouldn't choose either; I have chosen salvation by grace through faith in Christ. And, since the only choice we are given in Scripture is salvation or death, I would say that that is the only choice that matters.

So then annihilation would indeed be a blessing compared to eternity in Hell fire.

 

[dies-l]

The point is that He doesn't have to ask anyone's permission.

Nobody has claimed otherwise. And, do you know what we call it when you make up an argument, attribute it to your opponent, and then prove it wrong: a straw man. And a straw man is a logical fallacy, and perhaps one of the worst kind, because it is centered on a deliberate form of dishonest argumentation.

It proves that humans can indeed burn in the fire forever. And that God will do it.

Once again, with the straw men. The argument is about what happens to people who are not saved, not about what happens to a specific individual (who might be a person or might be a demon) who is referenced in Scripture. I have stood mute on the topic of whether there might be an exception to the rule, and I will continue to do so. But, the general rule remains that the wages of sin is death, not eternal life in Hell.

But you just proved it is not"debunked".

Please stop with the dishonest responses. The sheer lengths that you are going to to confuse the issues and to avoid honest debate tells me that you are not as sure as you want others to believe. Why do you cherish the idea of eternal torment so much?

 

[dies-l]

So then annihilation would indeed be a blessing compared to eternity in Hell fire.

Please stop with the dishonest responses. By your logic, any form of torture would be considered a "blessing", so long as there exists some more extreme form of torture. Even your cherished "burning forever in Hell" could be regarded as a blessing compared to a more extreme punishment.

 

[FredVB]

I couldn't find my post in this messy thread, I figure it'll be quicker to post a new reply, and it goes a little like this:

It's an overstatement to say that the christian church has been preaching the doctrine of hell for two millennia. Paul, for one, did not preach it.

That's not fair. The fact that I reject a doctrine says nothing about why I reject it. For some people, the worse the message, the harder the salvation, the narrower the road, the fewer that find it, the more commandments one must keep, the more it scratches their itching ears. Just because the message that people will NOT be tortured forever by God is a wonderful and happy message doesn't mean it's false.

The way I see it, the problem isn't minimizing sin, but "maximizing" it, as it were. I don't know any verse in the bible that says stuff like "God is infinite, so sin against Him must have infinite punishment" or any such thing (on the contrary, God talks about one sin being more serious than another). But it does sound a lot like something you'd have to make up to justify your belief in a God who will burn you forever.

Just think about that for a moment. God - GOD - is going to TORTURE you. And never stop. After ten thousand millennia, He is still going to torture you for another million gazillion years and never ever stop. Please, just think about it for a minute.

But that's nothing compared to eternal torturer. You can't say that just because it may be righteous to punish someone with a fine, it must also be righteous to punish them by hanging.

Indeed, what IS the crime? What sort of "infinite" sin have I, or anybody else, committed?

And again (sorry if you've answered this already, I'm honestly losing track), if God could simply forgive sins like He often did in the OT, why must he torture anybody forever later? And if the blood of animals could cover sin in the OT, mustn't those animals be burning in hell as we speak? And, if Jesus did in fact pay for our sins, how can He not be in hell right now, suffering forever and ever?

My post was certainly missed. Torture after this life is not found in the Bible but torment is. I posted what it can mean. Burning would be a metaphor for it. There is ultimate fairness forever. Existing forever is fair and is what we were meant for. How is ending existence for all not redeemed fair no matter how much sin they had?

 

[dollarsbill]

Please stop with the dishonest responses. By your logic, any form of torture would be considered a "blessing", so long as there exists some more extreme form of torture. Even your cherished "burning forever in Hell" could be regarded as a blessing compared to a more extreme punishment.

Did you say dishonest?

 

[dollarsbill]

How is ending existence for all not redeemed fair no matter how much sin they had?

Excellent point. It wouldn't be fair. I.E. a loving kind merciful atheist the same punishment as Hitler. Nah.

 

[seeingeyes]

Excellent point. It wouldn't be fair. I.E. a loving kind merciful atheist the same punishment as Hitler. Nah.

Who needs fair? Hand me my blow torch.

 

[holo]

I'm sorry, please continue to believe what you like whether scriptural or not...I've really had enough of this

You insisted people reply to your posts, now I hope you'll reply to mine.

 

[holo]

You have a presuppositional agenda and you don’t want the teaching on eternal punishment to be in the NT. It is there and that’s an embarrassment to you. So what do you do? You attempt to deny that Paul taught it. But you are wrong. Paul supports Jesus in the teaching on eternal punishment.

Please reply to my arguments instead of your (erroneous and insulting) projections of what you think my motivation is.

You have two major issues that come out in some of your posts, including this one:

[*]You don't know your Bible, including the Pauline epistles

I do know it and read it. But I don't interpret it in the exact same way that you do.

[*]You engage in a hermeneutic of eisegesis. You impose your will on the texts instead of letting the texts speak for themselves (exegesis).

The texts in question largely have to do with the word aion which, as Armistead have shown thoroughly and repeatedly does not necessarily mean eternal. We should let the original text with it's original context and meaning "speak for itself" - for instance it's no good to quote an english verse where Jesus talks about hell, because he didn't in fact do that. He spoke of Gehenna - and then the question is obviously what he meant by it. What did it mean to those who heard it? They knew Gehenna as the garbage dump where they burned up trash and rubble. Jesus also compared the unrighteous to branches being thrown in the fire. As far as I can tell, it's not reasonable at all to think that by Gehenna he did in fact mean hell, because he would've said hell if he meant it. Especially considering that the "doctrine of hell" isn't to be found in the OT.

 

[holo]

Second, the destruction is EVERLASTING.

Yes, that's pretty much my (our) point.

 

[holo]

He created everyone exactly as He chose to do.

Proverbs 16:4 (NASB)
4 The LORD has made everything for its own purpose, Even the wicked for the day of evil.

And God's purpose is to create people in order to torture them for eternity? Does he love them?

 

[holo]

Glad you think He can. And He will.

Absolutely. However, He can not be both good and infinitely evil at the same time. He can not be both just and completely unjust at the same time.

 

[holo]

Even annihilation would be GREAT reward compared to burning forever.

Even Auschwitz would be like heaven compared to burning forever. But what's your point? That sinners should be punished in the absolute most horrific way imaginable?

 

[holo]

Death does not mean 'cease to exist'.

What do you base that on? Isn't death the opposite of life?

 

[Metal Minister]

What do you base that on? Isn't death the opposite of life?

No, death is the absence of life, not the opposite. Just like dark is the absence of light. Your physical body will die, and your spirit will remain in hell.

May God Richly Bless you!

 

[holo]

My post was certainly missed. Torture after this life is not found in the Bible but torment is. I posted what it can mean. Burning would be a metaphor for it. There is ultimate fairness forever. Existing forever is fair and is what we were meant for. How is ending existence for all not redeemed fair no matter how much sin they had?

We may be meant for existing forever, but the bible says that only the saved will inherit eternal life. The others will die.

God is righteous and will judge fairly and righteously, I assume that means that those who die will get their deserved punishment before they die. What would be unfair was if they were punished infinitely more than they were guilty of.

And why isn't Jesus in hell now if He did take our punishment?

 

[holo]

No, death is the absence of life, not the opposite. Just like dark is the absence of light. Your physical body will die, and your spirit will remain in hell.

May God Richly Bless you!

Yes, death is the absence of life. Our bodies will die, whether or not we are saved. So when the bible talks about eternal life it's clearly not referring to the body.

 

[Metal Minister]

The you understate God's infinite holiness. We have transgressed that infinite holiness. How is an infinite transgression punished fairly with a finite punishment?

May God Richly Bless you!