Proof that God exists?

[someguy14]

It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

 

[trientje]

He can believe what he wants, until he tries to impose his "truth" on to me, which he has done.

He has not substantiated this claim of "truth", and all of his arguments in support of it have been shown to be faulty by myself and others.

And unlike Elioenal26, I do not claim to know what others think, so I presume that what he says in his posts is sincere. What I am to make of someone that sincerely believes things that he cannot demonstrate as true, and, by his own admission, can contradict established science?

OK, so as far as you are concerned he hasn't successfully demonstrated to you that his arguments are true and according to you his his arguments contradict established science. then why can't you just say you respect his right to believe what he believes and tell him that the only tool you are using to judge his arguments is science so therefore we can't go on with the debate. I really don't think he is trying to impose what he believes on you. He is very passionate about what he believes. And if your beliefs are strong and concrete then don't get upset about it. I know I sound like a Jewish Mother but that's really what I am. Shalom

 

[Davian]

OK, so as far as you are concerned he hasn't successfully demonstrated to you that his arguments are true and according to you his his arguments contradict established science. then why can't you just say you respect his right to believe what he believes and tell him that the only tool you are using to judge his arguments is science so therefore we can't go on with the debate. I really don't think he is trying to impose what he believes on you. He is very passionate about what he believes. And if your beliefs are strong and concrete then don't get upset about it. I know I sound like a Jewish Mother but that's really what I am. Shalom

...
I'm not here to convince atheists that God exists. My main concern is that when God is discussed through the bible that the information is presented accurately.

I'm not here to convince theists that deities do not exist. My main concern is that, when religious claims are discussed using science, the information is presented accurately.

 

[Tiberius]

Let me ask you, how are you so sure that your wife loves you, or how are you so sure that you love your children? Some things aren't explainable, you just know that you know.

Well, my girlfriend (we're not married yet), just went out at 3am to get me some food I was craving because I am sick.

But I see the point you are trying to make. How can I be sure that it isn't part of some deliberate deception? Well, the fact is that there are changes in the brain that occur whenever we experience the emotion of love. See HERE, HERE, and HERE. I suppose that if I really wanted to be sure, I could hook her up to a machine and measure those changes, but I think if I did that, her response to my doubt of her love would be to love me a little less.

 

[someguy14]

James 3:17
But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality,http://www.biblestudytools.com/kjv/james/3-17.html#fn-descriptionAnchor-a and without hypocrisy.

 

[Tiberius]

Demonstrate to me why I should accept what you are saying as true?

What he's saying... You mean science?

Are you really asking why you should accept science as true?

Really?

 

[The Engineer]

OK, so as far as you are concerned he hasn't successfully demonstrated to you that his arguments are true and according to you his his arguments contradict established science.

True.

then why can't you just say you respect his right to believe what he believes and tell him that the only tool you are using to judge his arguments is science so therefore we can't go on with the debate.

His posts are not just scientifically inaccurate, they are also illogical and ignorant and, at times, downright incomprehensible.

I tolerate his beliefs, but if he uses them as the basis for his argumentation, I will question them, just as I would question any premise.

I really don't think he is trying to impose what he believes on you. He is very passionate about what he believes. And if your beliefs are strong and concrete then don't get upset about it. I know I sound like a Jewish Mother but that's really what I am. Shalom

I'm not getting upset when people question my beliefs, I'm getting upset when they question my beliefs, ignore my counter-arguments and constantly repeat what they are saying, and that's what Jamin does.

 

[Gadarene]

OK, so as far as you are concerned he hasn't successfully demonstrated to you that his arguments are true and according to you his his arguments contradict established science. then why can't you just say you respect his right to believe what he believes and tell him that the only tool you are using to judge his arguments is science so therefore we can't go on with the debate.

Why should we respect someone who has no intention of doing the same?

We tell him what we believe and then he insists on using some stupid bit of "evidence" like his personal interpretation of a Bible verse in order to claim that we don't really mean that, we actually believe something else.

Disrespect and hypocrisy of that kind needs countering and ridiculing. End of story.

 

[trientje]

Well, my girlfriend (we're not married yet), just went out at 3am to get me some food I was craving because I am sick.

But I see the point you are trying to make. How can I be sure that it isn't part of some deliberate deception? Well, the fact is that there are changes in the brain that occur whenever we experience the emotion of love. See HERE, HERE, and HERE. I suppose that if I really wanted to be sure, I could hook her up to a machine and measure those changes, but I think if I did that, her response to my doubt of her love would be to love me a little less.

I'm fully aware of the chemical changes that goes on in the body. So if you want to describe us as just a biological entity then OK. Like the guy who said that abortion is OK cause the fetus is just a blob of protoplasm and isn't worth anything. That people are just biological machines so they aren't worth much. Describing humans purely based on science makes a person one dementional. Deliberate deception? Please explain that.

 

[trientje]

Why should we respect someone who has no intention of doing the same?

We tell him what we believe and then he insists on using some stupid bit of "evidence" like his personal interpretation of a Bible verse in order to claim that we don't really mean that, we actually believe something else.

Disrespect and hypocrisy of that kind needs countering and ridiculing. End of story.

Disrespect and hypocrisy? Exactly the same as you do to us. Ridiculing? exactly the same thing atheists do to us. Calling our God an "it" for example. Often times on this site we end up going round and round accomplishing nothing but to insult and ridicule.

 

[Skavau]

Disrespect and hypocrisy? Exactly the same as you do to us. Ridiculing? exactly the same thing atheists do to us. Calling our God an "it" for example. Often times on this site we end up going round and round accomplishing nothing but to insult and ridicule.

You know two wrongs don't make a right.

Just because some atheists behave disrespectfully does not give moral justification for Elioenai or anyone else to behave disrespectfully to all atheists.

 

[trientje]

True.


His posts are not just scientifically inaccurate, they are also illogical and ignorant and, at times, downright incomprehensible.

I tolerate his beliefs, but if he uses them as the basis for his argumentation, I will question them, just as I would question any premise.


I'm not getting upset when people question my beliefs, I'm getting upset when they question my beliefs, ignore my counter-arguments and constantly repeat what they are saying, and that's what Jamin does.

I'm getting upset when they question my beliefs, ignore my counter-arguments and constantly repeat what they are saying, and that's what Jamin does. __

________________

MMMMM you do the same thing.

 

[trientje]

You know two wrongs don't make a right.

Just because some atheists behave disrespectfully does not give moral justification for Elioenai or anyone else to behave disrespectfully to all atheists.

true, but sometimes a dose of your own medicine helps you to see your behaviour.

 

[Skavau]

true, but sometimes a dose of your own medicine helps you to see your behaviour.

It isn't "my" behaviour and yet Elioenai is treating me (amongst others) with it. I am not and am never deliberately disrespectful towards theists in a serious discussion or debate. I say somewhat harsh things about what they believe but it is not done to antagonise or mock but to make specific points in favour of what I am arguing.

Elioenai however prefers to misrepresent what atheists say to him time and time again. He does this indiscriminately whether or not an atheist has actually wronged him or not.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by Skavau You know two wrongs don't make a right.

Just because some atheists behave disrespectfully does not give moral justification for Elioenai or anyone else to behave disrespectfully to all atheists.

true, but sometimes a dose of your own medicine helps you to see your behaviour.

Good going and congrats.

You just brought yourself down to their level instead of bringing them up to yours

Obadiah 1:3 The pride of your heart has deceived you who dwell in the clefts of the rock, whose habitation is high;
saying in your heart 'Who will bring me down to the ground?'

 

[Gadarene]

Disrespect and hypocrisy? Exactly the same as you do to us. Ridiculing? exactly the same thing atheists do to us. Calling our God an "it" for example. Often times on this site we end up going round and round accomplishing nothing but to insult and ridicule.

Even if this were true, how does that justify you doing it?

Your moral code forbids hypocrisy. Stick to it.

And for the record, I don't commit the specific wrong that we've been calling Elioenai on - when someone says to me what it is they believe and why they believe it, I try and stick to that and hold them to it where possible.

 

[Gadarene]

I'm fully aware of the chemical changes that goes on in the body. So if you want to describe us as just a biological entity then OK. Like the guy who said that abortion is OK cause the fetus is just a blob of protoplasm and isn't worth anything. That people are just biological machines so they aren't worth much. Describing humans purely based on science makes a person one dementional.

Oh come off it.

You asked how we could know that someone loves us.

Then when the answer is given, sinking your daft little point in the process, you accuse us of wanting to make people one-dimensional.

Try and have a little honesty here.

 

[Elioenai26]

Why should we respect someone who has no intention of doing the same?

How have I disrespected you or anyone else?

If by disrespect, you mean me telling you that your views are wrong, then how is this disrespect? Do you not maintain that Christian views are wrong?

I assure you if I agreed with what you said, you would not charge me with disrespect.

We tell him what we believe and then he insists on using some stupid bit of "evidence" like his personal interpretation of a Bible verse in order to claim that we don't really mean that, we actually believe something else.

It is a stupid bit of evidence because that is your opinion Gadarene.

If what I say is true, then why do you not accept it as true?

Disrespect and hypocrisy of that kind needs countering and ridiculing. End of story.

If it is disrespect, then what does ridiculing accomplish?

How is ridiculing someone help your position?

This is what Richard Dawkins called for in his march for reason in Washington and many secular thinkers took issue with him because of this.

If you ridicule anything, then ridicule the idea, don't attack the person supporting the idea. And when you ridicule the idea, be sure to have a good reason for doing so or it becomes an exercise in futility for you and is diminished to an emotive reaction.

 

[Elioenai26]

Oh come off it.

You asked how we could know that someone loves us.

Then when the answer is given, sinking your daft little point in the process, you accuse us of wanting to make people one-dimensional.

Try and have a little honesty here.

I notice you keep speaking of honesty.

Tell us, how do you account for this immaterial idea of honesty?

 

[trientje]

It isn't "my" behaviour and yet Elioenai is treating me (amongst others) with it. I am not and am never deliberately disrespectful towards theists in a serious discussion or debate. I say somewhat harsh things about what they believe but it is not done to antagonise or mock but to make specific points in favour of what I am arguing.

Elioenai however prefers to misrepresent what atheists say to him time and time again. He does this indiscriminately whether or not an atheist has actually wronged him or not.

I am not and am never deliberately disrespectful

Whenever a person says they never do anything it automatically makes that statement false.