Evolution and you?

[GBTWC]

Evolution, ye, or nay?

Please give brief reason for or against and how you belief it effects our faith, especially concerning the image of God in us?

 

[Lukaris]

Personally, it hardly ever even occurs to me. I guess some aspects of it pertaining to animal species throughout time can be correct but not to humans. We are created by God & have spirit conferred given by the life giving Holy Spirit .Evil tendencies towards greater sin & decay are a byproduct of the "evolution" of a fallen world. Our virtues are the part of us that recall the good that God had created us for & everything & will restore for those saved by Jesus Christ. We are not totally depraved but we are afflicted with sin.

 

[Protoevangel]

Here are a few fairly recent threads that touch on the subject:

• http://www.christianforums.com/t7598883/
• http://www.christianforums.com/t7617631/
• http://www.christianforums.com/t7622713/

 

[ArmyMatt]

personally, I am a nay. the fathers and holy elders seem to almost always point to Creation, and who would know more than those who drew close to the One who witnessed it all?

 

[Touma]

personally, I am a nay. the fathers and holy elders seem to almost always point to Creation, and who would know more than those who drew close to the One who witnessed it all?

I would ask why we have to choose between creation and evolution? Why could there not be theistic evolution? In essence, God created all things, and guided evolution.

 

[ArmyMatt]

I would ask why we have to choose between creation and evolution? Why could there not be theistic evolution? In essence, God created all things, and guided evolution.

because to have evolution means to have death. the Wisdom of Solomon says that God created nothing to die.

 

[Protoevangel]

Now, I do want to mention that I don't know any Orthodox person who would deny evolution... It is a phenomena that is observable.

What some Orthodox (myself included) will argue against is common descent, or evolution as a single explanation for the diversity of life on earth. In the book of Numbers (12:8), God Himself says that He spoke to Moses "mouth to mouth: and plainly, and not by riddles and figures". This is how the Fathers overwhelmingly taught us to interpret Genesis. And yes, as much as I love the sciences, I trust that God the Holy Spirit guided the Fathers to lead the Church into "all truth", and didn't wait 2,000 years to have a secular science and anti-christian philosophy to influence a reinterpretation of God's Holy Word.

 

[Trogool]

Well, evolution means we can't pop Vamcomycin like candy without becoming an incubator for very ugly things. XDR-TB.

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner

 

[inconsequential]

Creation was obviously a process that took some time. God said, "Let the earth bring forth..." I take that to indicate that living things were made from the earth He had already created. Personally, I believe He created all life via some process and the evidence which demonstrates that process is misinterpreted.

 

[gzt]

I think it's foolish to completely ignore the scientific consensus, because it is, in the end, the evidence that presents itself to the world and survives strict skeptical inquiry. As for what it has to do with my faith, well, I still believe God created the world and called it "very good", that we are fundamentally estranged from that goodness by some cosmic catastrophe (The Fall), that we were made in the image of God, and that God became man to reconcile us to Himself and heal that schism. I mean, God became a man, was crucified, and was resurrected from the dead. How precisely God chose to get to that point in history is ultimately shrouded in mystery, though I wholeheartedly endorse making a point of saying that God created the universe. The fact of evolution does not in any way endanger the existential narrative or the fact of the miracles in the past.

 

[SeraphimSarov]

I'm probably making myself into a pariah, but I believe in theistic evolution.

 

[Protoevangel]

I'm probably making myself into a pariah, but I believe in theistic evolution.

The OP asked for out opinions on evolution, not for us to fall on our swords.

There is a diversity of opinion in the Orthodox Church.

As long as we avoid what gzt just did and call those who differ in opinion from us, "foolish" (or worse), we'll all do just fine.

 

[Knee V]

It is my opinion that many phenomena we observe in the universe are the direct result of Death being brought into the world through man's sin. I believe that evolution happens, but I believe that it only happens because the world has died, and that evolution (corruption of DNA, mutations, etc) is a direct result of that.

So yes, we observe evolution. Yes, we observe an expanding universe. Yes, we observe the gradual slowing of the speed of light. Etc. But what I believe that we are truly witnessing is the decay of a universe that has already died. We would not be witnessing its decay had we never sinned.

So, in a nutshell, I believe that all life is a special creation by God and that there is not a common ancestor for all living things, but that life (as well as all of creation) has begun to decay and mutate since sin and death came into the world.

 

[Protoevangel]

It is my opinion that many phenomena we observe in the universe are the direct result of Death being brought into the world through man's sin. I believe that evolution happens, but I believe that it only happens because the world has died, and that evolution (corruption of DNA, mutations, etc) is a direct result of that.

So yes, we observe evolution. Yes, we observe an expanding universe. Yes, we observe the gradual slowing of the speed of light. Etc. But what I believe that we are truly witnessing is the decay of a universe that has already died. We would not be witnessing its decay had we never sinned.

So, in a nutshell, I believe that all life is a special creation by God and that there is not a common ancestor for all living things, but that life (as well as all of creation) has begun to decay and mutate since sin and death came into the world.

I would also add that the common thread we see in DNA is not tied to a common ancestor (as we've already agreed), but on God's handiwork... A "template" if you will, and quite intentional.

 

[Dorothea]

This topic comes up a lot.

I think man was/is made in God's image, while animals were created by Him, but are not in his image. I believe that some animals have evolved over time, such as the alligator and shark for examples. I do not believe this happens for man for the reason I stated in my first sentence. The only "evolving" we do, is being transformed by the Holy Spirit to perfection when we finish the race, that continues after departing this earth.

 

[Dorothea]

It is my opinion that many phenomena we observe in the universe are the direct result of Death being brought into the world through man's sin. I believe that evolution happens, but I believe that it only happens because the world has died, and that evolution (corruption of DNA, mutations, etc) is a direct result of that.

So yes, we observe evolution. Yes, we observe an expanding universe. Yes, we observe the gradual slowing of the speed of light. Etc. But what I believe that we are truly witnessing is the decay of a universe that has already died. We would not be witnessing its decay had we never sinned.

So, in a nutshell, I believe that all life is a special creation by God and that there is not a common ancestor for all living things, but that life (as well as all of creation) has begun to decay and mutate since sin and death came into the world.

Interesting!

 

[Dorothea]

I'm probably making myself into a pariah, but I believe in theistic evolution.

Speaking of pariah, I am guessing they evolved, too.

 

[Protoevangel]

Speaking of pariah, I am guessing they evolved, too.

I don't know about pariah, but when piranha evolve, we're all in trouble!

 

[Dorothea]

I don't know about pariah, but when piranha evolve, we're all in trouble!

. Yes. Quite frightening.

 

[rusmeister]

The OP asked for out opinions on evolution, not for us to fall on our swords.

There is a diversity of opinion in the Orthodox Church.

As long as we avoid what gzt just did and call those who differ in opinion from us, "foolish" (or worse), we'll all do just fine.

This seems to me to be an example of the scourge of misunderstanding that plagues us all.
GZT said it would be foolish to completely ignore scientific consensus, NOT to disagree with it.

I further contend that as philosophy is in utter ruin in our time, scientists are therefore highly unphilosophical (even the ones with PhDs), and they interpret their findings through bad philosophical assumptions, and so, reach false consensus.

Isaac Newton was FAR more philosophical than Stephen Hawking - which is not so hard to be.

I actually think Knee-V is right in part. My strongest empirical argument against scientific thought is its reliance on a constant rate of decay in carbon dating. It's obvious to me that if that rate should change at any point (and its data cannot be independently confirmed AFAIK beyond historical record (which is why we speak of "pre-history" in the first place) then all calculations beyond that point are off. The earth may not be 7,000 years old, but I don't believe it is billions of years because I do bet dollars to doughnuts that the rate does change. If it does, the dinosaurs could be only a few thousand years prior to recorded history and we might be looking at a planet that is less than twenty thousand years old. But the main thing to bash is the certainty of the modern theories - and when I interpret "modern" as "fashionable" (as any Chestertonian will point out), then that certainty becomes even more dubious. It's ironic, really. The moderns, beginning with Huxley, wanted to use Darwin's ideas to cast doubt on the certainty of faith in God. Now we must use the lost arts of philosophy and logic to cast doubt on the certainty of faith in scientists.

Finally, the idea of human evolution, as has been pointed out, DOES make nonsense of theology, which explains a lot of non-physical phenomena that our modern priests, aka scientists, are helpless to explain, such as sin and love. Certainly some things have "evolved". I do not draw from that that EVERYTHING has evolved, in fact, I find it highly improbable. The idea of evolution is chaos and anarchy, where the strongest survive - which is in direct conflict with the guidance of a loving Creator. Such "evolution" as IS actually observed - as opposed to assumed - MUST be a post-Fall product.