Atheism (3)

[createdtoworship]

Flue?

No wonder you complain about my use of the word "predilection"...

just a word to cover up a lack of understanding of theology. It's okay many do it. So it's okay ........right?

 

[createdtoworship]

Why is the burden of proof on me? You haven't offered any proof otherwise; you simply copy and pasted a web-page, which I just came across while searching for a website that I wanted to cite from. You should have cited that as a website, by the way, or put it all in quotation marks, else you're giving the impression that you wrote it yourself.

I have already posted an article offering evidence to the contrary, but if needed, I can always post more.

Let's start off easy - Wikipedia.

"Traditionally, the entire book of Isaiah is believed to pre-date the rule of Cyrus by about 120 years. These particular passages (Isaiah 40-55, often referred to as Deutero-Isaiah) are believed by most modern critical scholars to have been added by another author toward the end of the Babylonian exile (ca. 536 BC).[57] Whereas Isaiah 1-39 (referred to as Proto-Isaiah) saw the destruction of Israel as imminent, and the restoration in the future, Deutero-Isaiah speaks of the destruction in the past (Isa 42:24-25), and the restoration as imminent (Isa 42:1-9). Notice, for example, the change in temporal perspective from (Isa 39:6-7), where the Babylonian Captivity is cast far in the future, to (Isa 43:14), where the Israelites are spoken of as already in Babylon.[58]"

Secondly, Cyrus the Great was born 600 BC or 576 BC.

Then we have this:
" There are three falsehoods found in these Babylonian prophecies in Jeremiah and Isaiah. First, both Jeremiah and Isaiah state that the complete destruction of Babylon is imminent at the hands of the Medes and Persians. ‘Her time is at hand,' the prophecy in Isaiah states, ‘and it will not be prolonged.' Similarly, Jeremiah stated that Babylon would be destroyed after ‘the seventy years of exile are over' at the time when the Jewish people returned from exile. Both prophets were given to say that ‘Babylon will become a complete ruin, without inhabitants forever.' Both prophets were given to predict that Babylon would be destroyed in violent warfare.
What actually happened was as follows. In 539 Cyrus conquered the northern part of the Babylonian nation and then entered into the city of Babylon which surrendered without a fight. Babylon became one of the richest cities in the Persian empire. It was a center of Jewish learning (the source of the famous Babylonian Talmud). It continues to exist to this very day in Iraq. As it states in the letter of Peter in the Church Testament, ‘Greetings from your sister church in Babylon.' As for Tyre, which also did not get destroyed, as it states in the gospels, Joshua visited Tyre in one of his missionary journeys.
It is truly amazing the number of false prophecies found in the books of the prophets. In almost every case these false prophecies concern warring and cursing and stirring up bloodlust or a desire for vengeance or domination (which should tell you something right there.)" False prophecy. False prophets in Jeremiah, Ezekiel, and Isaiah in the Bible
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There are so many contradictions. I could post more, but I don't see the point in simply swapping copy and pasted arguments. Now the burden of proof is on you.

even if the prophecy of cyrus was an entire hoax, there are at least 300 others we could try. Are you willing? Or are you closed minded?

 

[createdtoworship]

I like Isaiah.

We get to see how loving the god of the bible is.

Let see,

3:16,17.. read it

Isaiah 3:16,17 NIV - The LORD says, “The women of Zion are - Bible Gateway


Isaiah 9:19,20. God will make every man kill his brother and then force him to eat "the flesh of his own arm." ? What the.......?

Isaiah 9:19-20 NIV - By the wrath of the LORD Almighty the - Bible Gateway

Isaiah 13:15-18. Here if you are captured, "infants will be diced up?" what the? (please tell me that I'm taking it out of context or something... not diced up literally but diced up metaphorically or spiritually or something, that's horrible). And their is something about things being stolen and wives violated (raped). And it goes on about having no compassion for children.

( I'm not gna keep linking the scripture just look it up, but I like that site I was linking. It even will give you an audio of it in an awesome voice, it's not James Earl Jones but still pretty good).

24:1-6 God will destroy/kill/burn everything. Except for a few.

God created evil? 45:7.... IDK, Tell how I'm taking that out of context if you would.

wow, I mean wow. You blame God for Isaiah 9:20?

here is a seminary level commentary on it....

A description of wickedness (9:18-21)

9:18-21. The people’s wickedness (cf. v. 17) is pictured as burning them up like a huge fire with a large column of smoke. The judgment would come not only from God (v. 11) and from enemies of the nation (v. 12), but also from within. The nation would destroy itself by its own wicked deeds. People would oppose each other (v. 19), devour each other (v. 20), and even entire tribes will be in conflict (v. 21). On the refrain in verse 21b see comments on verse 12.


Walvoord, J. F., Zuck, R. B., & Dallas Theological Seminary. (1983-c1985). The Bible knowledge commentary : An exposition of the scriptures (1:1054). Wheaton, IL: Victor Books.

 

[SaraJarvis]

even if the prophecy of cyrus was an entire hoax, there are at least 300 others we could try. Are you willing? Or are you closed minded?

I'm not close-minded at all, no. The same would go for various other prophecies - I've been through most of them all before, so I'm certainly not close-minded. However, it seems that the only discussions we're having here consist of copy and pasting biased articles.

Question: if the prophecy of Cyrus is indeed a hoax, then how can you continue to take the bible seriously? Or, indeed, even consider defending other prophecies?

I'm not here to take them all to pieces - that's boring. I'm here to discuss why you still buy into them, when they've been proven to be nonsense.

 

[createdtoworship]

I'm not close-minded at all, no. The same would go for various other prophecies - I've been through most of them all before, so I'm certainly not close-minded. However, it seems that the only discussions we're having here consist of copy and pasting biased articles.

Question: if the prophecy of Cyrus is indeed a hoax, then how can you continue to take the bible seriously? Or, indeed, even consider defending other prophecies?

I'm not here to take them all to pieces - that's boring. I'm here to discuss why you still buy into them, when they've been proven to be nonsense.

how about this one:

Over Seven Centuries before the birth of Christ God told the Prophet Isaiah that the time span between the Commandment to restore and rebuild Jerusalem and the coming of the Messiah would be exactly 476* years. (*seven=heptid). We know from any historical record that the order was in fact issued on March 14, 445B.C. When you add 173,880 days (476yrs) to the 14th of March, 445B.C. you come to April 6, A.D.32. Palm Sunday, The exact day Jesus entered triumphantly and openly into Jerusalem. [Predicted: Daniel 9:25/ Fulfilled: Luke 23:18]


 B.C. 445 A.D. 32 = 476 years (B.C. 1 to A.D. 1 = 1 yr.)
476 X 365 = 173,740 days
Add for leap years = 116 days
Mar. 14 to Apr. 6 = + 24 days (inclusive)
= 173,880

 

[SaraJarvis]

how about this one:

Over Seven Centuries before the birth of Christ God told the Prophet Isaiah that the time span between the Commandment to restore and rebuild Jerusalem and the coming of the Messiah would be exactly 476* years. (*seven=heptid). We know from any historical record that the order was in fact issued on March 14, 445B.C. When you add 173,880 days (476yrs) to the 14th of March, 445B.C. you come to April 6, A.D.32. Palm Sunday, The exact day Jesus entered triumphantly and openly into Jerusalem. [Predicted: Daniel 9:25/ Fulfilled: Luke 23:18]


 B.C. 445 A.D. 32 = 476 years (B.C. 1 to A.D. 1 = 1 yr.)
476 X 365 = 173,740 days
Add for leap years = 116 days
Mar. 14 to Apr. 6 = + 24 days (inclusive)
= 173,880

Do you just make posts without reading what I've written?

Let me paste my post here, as it seems you understand things when they're copy and pasted:

"I'm not close-minded at all, no. The same would go for various other prophecies - I've been through most of them all before, so I'm certainly not close-minded. However, it seems that the only discussions we're having here consist of copy and pasting biased articles.

Question: if the prophecy of Cyrus is indeed a hoax, then how can you continue to take the bible seriously? Or, indeed, even consider defending other prophecies?

I'm not here to take them all to pieces - that's boring. I'm here to discuss why you still buy into them, when they've been proven to be nonsense."

 

[createdtoworship]

Do you just make posts without reading what I've written?

Let me paste my post here, as it seems you understand things when they're copy and pasted:

"I'm not close-minded at all, no. The same would go for various other prophecies - I've been through most of them all before, so I'm certainly not close-minded. However, it seems that the only discussions we're having here consist of copy and pasting biased articles.

Question: if the prophecy of Cyrus is indeed a hoax, then how can you continue to take the bible seriously? Or, indeed, even consider defending other prophecies?

I'm not here to take them all to pieces - that's boring. I'm here to discuss why you still buy into them, when they've been proven to be nonsense."

you can prove one or fifty of them wrong, but it only takes one prophecy to prove the Bible is inspired. There are over 300 prophecies regarding Christ alone.

 

[pgp_protector]

you can prove one or fifty of them wrong, but it only takes one prophecy to prove the Bible is inspired. There are over 300 prophecies regarding Christ alone.

So if I make a thousand predictions, and if one of them is right I'm inspired? It doesn't matter how many are wrong?

 

[createdtoworship]

So if I make a thousand predictions, and if one of them is right I'm inspired? It doesn't matter how many are wrong?

if you can legitimately make a fine tuned assessment of future events with detail and accuracy 500-750 years in advance, then yes.......you too would be inspired. Try it.

 

[SaraJarvis]

you can prove one or fifty of them wrong, but it only takes one prophecy to prove the Bible is inspired. There are over 300 prophecies regarding Christ alone.

Alright, so if one thing is correctly 'predicted', then it means that the bible must be divinely inspired and completely true? Even with the rest of its flaws?

In about 2010 I said that the country was going to end up drowned in debt, and that unemployment cases would get worse, the media and politicians were in bed with one another, and David Cameron is an idiot. Here we are in 2012, and it's all happened. Does that mean that I made a prophecy? No, it just means that I looked at history, looked at present goings on, and put two-and-two together.

 

[Tinker Grey]

The other advantage of making prophecies about things 500+ years out is that they can't stone you when you are wrong.

 

[trientje]

Who wrote Isaiah? Some scholars have made the claim that two or three different people wrote Isaiah.Is there archeological evidence to back this up?
Did the dead sea scrolls show a division? Does the book contain fulfilled prophecy?

 

[createdtoworship]

Alright, so if one thing is correctly 'predicted', then it means that the bible must be divinely inspired and completely true? Even with the rest of its flaws?

In about 2010 I said that the country was going to end up drowned in debt, and that unemployment cases would get worse, the media and politicians were in bed with one another, and David Cameron is an idiot. Here we are in 2012, and it's all happened. Does that mean that I made a prophecy? No, it just means that I looked at history, looked at present goings on, and put two-and-two together.

no because anyone could make that prophecy. They have to be details 500 years in advance remember?

 

[createdtoworship]

Who wrote Isaiah? Some scholars have made the claim that two or three different people wrote Isaiah.Is there archeological evidence to back this up?
Did the dead sea scrolls show a division? Does the book contain fulfilled prophecy?

even if there are three isaiahs, the prophecies are are still 500 years in advance.

 

[SaraJarvis]

no because anyone could make that prophecy. They have to be details 500 years in advance remember?

Ohh, I see. So that's a specific necessity, is it? The thing is, no one with any credibility outside of theology actually believes that anything was predicted 500 years in advance...

 

[Elioenai26]

Ohh, I see. So that's a specific necessity, is it? The thing is, no one with any credibility outside of theology actually believes that anything was predicted 500 years in advance...

If I may perchance ask several questions?

What does this matter? There are numerous other prophecies in the Bible that have either been partially fulfilled or completely fulfilled, specifically with regards to Christ.

Do you maintain that all of these too are to be disregarded?

If so, why do you suppose that they should? What solid irrefutable proof do you have that we should take your word or someone else's word over that which has shown to stand the test of time and remain successfully unrefuted for well over two thousand years?

Do you not have a predetermined naturalsitc view which precludes you from accepting the miraculous before you ever even objectively and honestly look at the Bible?

 

[trientje]

even if there are three isaiahs, the prophecies are are still 500 years in advance.

Who wrote Isaiah? Some scholars have made the claim that two or three different people wrote Isaiah.Is there archeological evidence to back this up?
Did the dead sea scrolls show a division? Does the book contain fulfilled prophecy?
I wrote the above in support of the idea that Isaiah was written by him and asking the nonbelievers those questions. We are studying the book of Isaiah in our bible study class and from everything I'm reading and learning I believe the whole book was written by Isaiah. Im sending you some sites.

Isaiah

10 Bible prophecies fulfilled recently

 

[createdtoworship]

Who wrote Isaiah? Some scholars have made the claim that two or three different people wrote Isaiah.Is there archeological evidence to back this up?
Did the dead sea scrolls show a division? Does the book contain fulfilled prophecy?

I wrote the above in support of the idea that Isaiah was written by him and asking the nonbelievers those questions. We are studying the book of Isaiah in our bible study class and from everything I'm reading and learning I believe the whole book was written by Isaiah. Im sending you some sites.

Isaiah

10 Bible prophecies fulfilled recently

I personally agree that isaiah has one author, but worst case scenario I am unsure as to why this would invalidate the prophecies if there were three isaiahs. The prophecies are still over 500 years in advance.

 

[createdtoworship]

Ohh, I see. So that's a specific necessity, is it? The thing is, no one with any credibility outside of theology actually believes that anything was predicted 500 years in advance...

that is poisoning the well fallacy. Just because theologians believe in miracles doesn't make everything a theologian believes false, even if miracles are false. So not sure what you are getting at?

 

[Dave Ellis]

that is poisoning the well fallacy. Just because theologians believe in miracles doesn't make everything a theologian believes false, even if miracles are false. So not sure what you are getting at?

I see your detection of logical fallacies hasn't improved any.... That in no way is poisoning the well.

If you are writing a new testament document, and you are aware of the old testament prophecy.... it's quite easy for you to write a fulfilled prophecy into the story.

Using biblical sources to confirm prophecies were fulfilled is senseless. The authors would have had no way to know if the prophecies were actually fulfilled, but had a vested interest in showing the prophecies happened. It's not a reliable source.

We need outside evidence to confirm these events actually happened, and there are none.