Atheism (3)

[SaraJarvis]

I have heard debates before, and it seems that those who use large words (just to use them) -are compensating for something.

...Or possibly because they have a good vocabulary, and the word fits? Sorry, but should someone dumb down their writing in case of offending someone, by their level of literacy? You're quite capable of using a dictionary - it isn't difficult. Plus, it means that you learn a new word. Since when did being literate equate to being a liar, or trying to hide something?

 

[createdtoworship]

Plus, it means that you learn a new word. Since when did being literate equate to being a liar, or trying to hide something?

don't need new words, because the logic is sound at all reading levels.

 

[SaraJarvis]

don't need new words, because the logic is sound at all reading levels.

Hahaa, Christianity in a nutshell. Also translates as "Don't need new ideas, the bible has enough sound logic for me."

Well then, you'll just have to get used to the fact that some people use big words, and they're not concealing heinous crimes.

 

[Elioenai26]

Hahaa, Christianity in a nutshell. Also translates as "Don't need new ideas, the bible has enough sound logic for me."

Well then, you'll just have to get used to the fact that some people use big words, and they're not concealing heinous crimes.

What is lacking in the Bible that postmodernity can compensate for?

 

[SaraJarvis]

What is lacking in the Bible that postmodernity can compensate for?

Real answers.

The bible was written by primitive men, in a time nothing alike to our own.

We now have science, equality for women, we don't own slaves, so on and so forth. How someone living in 2012 can take the bible seriously is almost beyond me; especially when it advocates things that are completely unacceptable in the world that we now live in.

You don't believe that the Black Death was airborne, or passed through water, do you? Or that if you eat a frog it'll cure your flu? Of course not, the idea is primitive and uneducated. So how can you believe that God made Adam from dust and Eve from Adam's rib?

 

[createdtoworship]

Real answers.

The bible was written by primitive men, in a time nothing alike to our own.

We now have science, equality for women, we don't own slaves, so on and so forth. How someone living in 2012 can take the bible seriously is almost beyond me; especially when it advocates things that are completely unacceptable in the world that we now live in.

You don't believe that the Black Death was airborne, do you? Or that if you eat a frog it'll cure your flu? Of course not, the idea is primitive and uneducated. So how can you believe that God made Adam from dust and Eve from Adam's rib?

miracles are possible, if God told you to eat a frog to cure your flue, it would....cure the flue. It is not beyond God to do such things. In the old testament many were told to wash in the river to cure their illnesses. Other times Jesus spat in the mud and rubbed it on someones eyes to cure them of blindness. He uses to foolish things to confound the wise.

 

[SaraJarvis]

miracles are possible, if God told you to eat a frog to cure your flue, it would....cure the flue. It is not beyond God to do such things. In the old testament many were told to wash in the river to cure their illnesses. Other times Jesus spat in the mud and rubbed it on someones eyes to cure them of blindness. He uses to foolish things to confound the wise.

That is what the bible says. Like I said, the bible was written by primitive men with primitive ideas. I think you're missing my point.

 

[createdtoworship]

That is what the bible says. Like I said, the bible was written by primitive men with primitive ideas. I think you're missing my point.

but there are many prophecies in the Bible. some a thousand years in advance.

 

[SaraJarvis]

but there are many prophecies in the Bible. some a thousand years in advance.

None of these "prophecies" name the actual events. The time line has often been fiddled with and edited, and others are easily predicted because of the manner in which society/certain countries were heading. That isn't prophesy, that's just commenting on what will probably happen.

 

[createdtoworship]

None of these "prophecies" name the actual events. The time line has often been fiddled with and edited, and others are easily predicted because of the manner in which society/certain countries were heading. That isn't prophesy, that's just commenting on what will probably happen.

from a manual I put together...


UNIQUE IN IT’S TEACHINGS
Prophecy:


The Bible is the only volume ever produced by man, or a group of men in which is to be found a large body of prophecies relating to individual nations, to Israel, to all the peoples of the earth, to certain cities, and to the coming of One who was to be the Messiah. The ancient world had many different devices for determining the future, known as divination, but not in the entire gamut of Greek and Latin literature, even though they use the words ‘prophet’ and ‘prophecy,’ can we find any real specific prophecy; whereas in the Bible this type of prophecy is very prevalent. Mohammedanism cannot point to any prophecies of the coming of Mohammed uttered hundreds of years before his birth. Neither can the founders of any cult in this country rightly identify any ancient text and specifically foretell their appearance.\

History:
From I Samuel through II Chronicles one finds the history of Israel, covering about five centuries. The Cambridge Ancient History, (Vol. I, p. 222) says: “The Israelites certainly manifest a genius for historical construction, and the Old Testament embodies the oldest


history writing extant.” Also Wilber Smith cites the distinguished archaeologist, Professor Albright: “Hebrew national tradition excels all others in its clear picture of tribal and family origins. In Egypt and Babylonia, in Assyria and Phoenicia, in Greece and Rome, we look in vain for anything comparable.”

Examples of Prophecy:

1. 748 years prior to the birth of Jesus God told the Prophet Isaiah that mankind would recognize the Messiah/Savior when he would be born of a virgin. [Predicted: Isaiah 7:14/ Fulfilled: Luke 1:34]

2. Over Seven Centuries before the birth of Christ God told the Prophet Isaiah that mankind would recognize the Messiah/Savior when he would suffer and be despised. [Predicted: Isaiah 53:3/ Fulfilled: Luke 23:18]

3. Well over half a MilleniumMillennium before Jesus was even a thought in His mothers head God spoke to Isaiah the Prophet ‘You will recognize the Messiah when He is buried with the rich,’ even though society was poor. [Predicted: Isaiah 53:9/ Fulfilled: Matthew 27:9]

748 years prior to the birth of Jesus God told the Prophet Isaiah that ‘You will recognize the Messiah when He is born of a virgin.’ [Predicted: Isaiah 7:14/ Fulfilled: Luke 1:34]

4. Seven hundred years before Christ was born God told the Prophet Micah that ‘You will recognize the Messiah when He is born in Bethlehem/ The city of David.’ Christ was so much predicted by scripture that when Herod attempted to determine where the Savior Child would be born the Scribes immediately quoted this verse. [Predicted: Micah 5:2 (697B.C.) / Fulfilled: Luke 2:4-7]
Over 800 years before Jesus God told the prophet Zechariah that ‘You will recognize the Messiah when He is pierced.’ (meaning crucified). It’s interesting to notice that crucifixion was unknown when this was predicted. The norm for Capital Punishment was Stoning.


5. Not until 90B.C. was Crucifixion even established. So this prophecy also predicted the Roman usage of Crucifixion well over 7 Centuries beforehand. [Predicted: Zechariah 12:10 / Fulfilled: John 19:37]

6. 500 years prior to Jesus coming God told the prophet Zechariah that ‘You will recognize the Messiah when He is betrayed, and that for 30 pieces of silver, and that this silver would buy a Potters field.’ [Predicted: Zechariah 11:12-13 / Fulfilled: Matthew 27:3-10]


Again, Over Seven Centuries before the birth of Christ God told the Prophet Isaiah that the time span between the Commandment to restore and rebuild Jerusalem and the coming of the Messiah would be exactly 476* years. (*seven=heptid). We know from any historical record that the order was in fact issued on March 14, 445B.C. When you add 173,880 days (476yrs) to the 14th of March, 445B.C. you come to April 6, A.D.32. Palm Sunday, The exact day Jesus entered triumphantly and openly into Jerusalem. [Predicted: Daniel 9:25/ Fulfilled: Luke 23:18]


 B.C. 445 A.D. 32 = 476 years (B.C. 1 to A.D. 1 = 1 yr.)
476 X 365 = 173,740 days
Add for leap years = 116 days
Mar. 14 to Apr. 6 = + 24 days (inclusive)
= 173,880

 

[SaraJarvis]

from a manual I put together...


UNIQUE IN IT’S TEACHINGS
Prophecy:


The Bible is the only volume ever produced by man, or a group of men in which is to be found a large body of prophecies relating to individual nations, to Israel, to all the peoples of the earth, to certain cities, and to the coming of One who was to be the Messiah. The ancient world had many different devices for determining the future, known as divination, but not in the entire gamut of Greek and Latin literature, even though they use the words ‘prophet’ and ‘prophecy,’ can we find any real specific prophecy; whereas in the Bible this type of prophecy is very prevalent. Mohammedanism cannot point to any prophecies of the coming of Mohammed uttered hundreds of years before his birth. Neither can the founders of any cult in this country rightly identify any ancient text and specifically foretell their appearance.\

History:
From I Samuel through II Chronicles one finds the history of Israel, covering about five centuries. The Cambridge Ancient History, (Vol. I, p. 222) says: “The Israelites certainly manifest a genius for historical construction, and the Old Testament embodies the oldest


history writing extant.” Also Wilber Smith cites the distinguished archaeologist, Professor Albright: “Hebrew national tradition excels all others in its clear picture of tribal and family origins. In Egypt and Babylonia, in Assyria and Phoenicia, in Greece and Rome, we look in vain for anything comparable.”

Examples of Prophecy:

1. 748 years prior to the birth of Jesus God told the Prophet Isaiah that mankind would recognize the Messiah/Savior when he would be born of a virgin. [Predicted: Isaiah 7:14/ Fulfilled: Luke 1:34]

2. Over Seven Centuries before the birth of Christ God told the Prophet Isaiah that mankind would recognize the Messiah/Savior when he would suffer and be despised. [Predicted: Isaiah 53:3/ Fulfilled: Luke 23:18]

3. Well over half a MilleniumMillennium before Jesus was even a thought in His mothers head God spoke to Isaiah the Prophet ‘You will recognize the Messiah when He is buried with the rich,’ even though society was poor. [Predicted: Isaiah 53:9/ Fulfilled: Matthew 27:9]

748 years prior to the birth of Jesus God told the Prophet Isaiah that ‘You will recognize the Messiah when He is born of a virgin.’ [Predicted: Isaiah 7:14/ Fulfilled: Luke 1:34]

4. Seven hundred years before Christ was born God told the Prophet Micah that ‘You will recognize the Messiah when He is born in Bethlehem/ The city of David.’ Christ was so much predicted by scripture that when Herod attempted to determine where the Savior Child would be born the Scribes immediately quoted this verse. [Predicted: Micah 5:2 (697B.C.) / Fulfilled: Luke 2:4-7]
Over 800 years before Jesus God told the prophet Zechariah that ‘You will recognize the Messiah when He is pierced.’ (meaning crucified). It’s interesting to notice that crucifixion was unknown when this was predicted. The norm for Capital Punishment was Stoning.


5. Not until 90B.C. was Crucifixion even established. So this prophecy also predicted the Roman usage of Crucifixion well over 7 Centuries beforehand. [Predicted: Zechariah 12:10 / Fulfilled: John 19:37]

6. 500 years prior to Jesus coming God told the prophet Zechariah that ‘You will recognize the Messiah when He is betrayed, and that for 30 pieces of silver, and that this silver would buy a Potters field.’ [Predicted: Zechariah 11:12-13 / Fulfilled: Matthew 27:3-10]


Again, Over Seven Centuries before the birth of Christ God told the Prophet Isaiah that the time span between the Commandment to restore and rebuild Jerusalem and the coming of the Messiah would be exactly 476* years. (*seven=heptid). We know from any historical record that the order was in fact issued on March 14, 445B.C. When you add 173,880 days (476yrs) to the 14th of March, 445B.C. you come to April 6, A.D.32. Palm Sunday, The exact day Jesus entered triumphantly and openly into Jerusalem. [Predicted: Daniel 9:25/ Fulfilled: Luke 23:18]


 B.C. 445 A.D. 32 = 476 years (B.C. 1 to A.D. 1 = 1 yr.)
476 X 365 = 173,740 days
Add for leap years = 116 days
Mar. 14 to Apr. 6 = + 24 days (inclusive)
= 173,880

I can copy and paste articles, too:

"

Christians claim that the Bible has hundreds of fulfilled prophecies, and is proof of its divine inspiration. In actuality, these so called fulfilled prophecies failed, were false or weren't prophecies at all. Many of these prophecies are so vague, they can be attributed to different events. It's also a fact that the Bible was written many years after these presumed prophecies and their "fulfillment" took place. It's also fair to mention that nowhere in the Bible will you find countries such as the United States, Russia, China, Korea, Great Britain prophesied. Oh Christians will tell you that they are, if you know how to interpret the Bible.
​

Genesis 26:4 And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed.
Here God tells Isaac that his descendents (Hebrews) will be as numerous as the stars. Considering the number of stars there are in the universe, that would have to be on the order of 1020 Jewish people.
Isaiah 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.
Christians say that this verse is a prophecy of Jesus' birth to a virgin. There are a couple problems with this prophecy...First, virgin in this verse is a mistranslation of the Hebrew word "almah", which actually means "young woman". A young woman is not necessarily a virgin. "Bethulah" would have been the correct word to use if the author meant virgin. Second, nowhere in the New Testament is Jesus referred to as Immanuel.
Isaiah 17:1 The burden of Damascus. Behold, Damascus is taken away from being a city, and it shall be a ruinous heap.
Damascus is still inhabited today with over a million people, and hardly a ruinous heap.
Isaiah 19:4-5 And the Egyptians will I give over into the hand of a cruel lord; and a fierce king shall rule over them, saith the Lord, the LORD of hosts. And the waters shall fail from the sea, and the river shall be wasted and dried up.
The river mentioned here is the Nile. The Nile is still one of Egypt's greatest natural resource.
Isaiah 19:18 In that day shall five cities in the land of Egypt speak the language of Canaan, and swear to the LORD of hosts; one shall be called, The city of destruction.
The Canaanite language has never been spoken in Egypt, and is now an extinct.
Isaiah 52:1 Awake, awake; put on thy strength, O Zion; put on thy beautiful garments, O Jerusalem, the holy city: for henceforth there shall no more come into thee the uncircumcised and the unclean.
There are uncircumcised people living in Jerusalem even today.
Ezekiel 29:10-11 Behold, therefore I am against thee, and against thy rivers, and I will make the land of Egypt utterly waste and desolate, from the tower of Syene even unto the border of Ethiopia. No foot of man shall pass through it, nor foot of beast shall pass through it, neither shall it be inhabited forty years.
Never in its long history has Egypt ever been uninhabited for forty years.
Amos 9:15 And I will plant them upon their land, and they shall no more be pulled up out of their land which I have given them, saith the LORD thy God.
Many times, Jews have been pulled up out of their land. The ownership of their land is still being fought for.
Jonah 3:4 And Jonah began to enter into the city a day's journey, and he cried, and said, Yet forty days, and Nineveh shall be overthrown.
Nineveh was never overthrown. Why? Because God changed his mind in verse 3:10, despite what Malachi 3:6, Numbers 23:19 and Ezekiel 24:14 says about God never changing his mind.
Jonah 3:10 And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.
Zechariah 11:12 And I said unto them, If ye think good, give me my price; and if not, forbear. So they weighed for my price thirty pieces of silver.
Christians say that this prophecy is was fulfilled when Judas received 30 pieces of silver for betraying Jesus. Matthew 27:9 recites this verse, but incorrectly credits Jeremiah with the prophecy.
Matthew 1:22-23 Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.
Again, Jesus is never referred to as Emmanuel (Immanuel).
Matthew 2:23 And he came and dwelt in a city called Nazareth: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophets, He shall be called a Nazarene.
Nowhere in the Old Testament is such a prophecy found, so how could such a one be fulfilled?
Matthew 12:5 Or have ye not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless?
There is no passage in the Old Testament that can be attributed to what Jesus is saying here.
Matthew 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
Jesus states that all the signs marking the end of the world in Matthew 24 would be fulfilled before his generation ended. That generation ended 2000 years ago, and the world has not come to an end, neither has all those signs been fulfilled.
Matthew 27:9 Then was fulfilled that which was spoken by Jeremy the prophet, saying, And they took the thirty pieces of silver, the price of him that was valued, whom they of the children of Israel did value.
This prophecy was never spoken by Jeremiah.
Matthew 26:64 Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.
Jesus tells the high priest that he would see his second coming. The high priest is long dead, and Jesus hasn't returned yet.
Throughout the New Testament, the end of the world is prophesied as being very near, at hand, to be witnessed by those living at the time. Paul often told the people he preached to that they would be witnesses to Jesus' second coming. They are all long gone."

 

[createdtoworship]

I can copy and paste articles, too:

"

Christians claim that the Bible has hundreds of fulfilled prophecies, and is proof of its divine inspiration. In actuality, these so called fulfilled prophecies failed, were false or weren't prophecies at all. Many of these prophecies are so vague, they can be attributed to different events. It's also a fact that the Bible was written many years after these presumed prophecies and their "fulfillment" took place. It's also fair to mention that nowhere in the Bible will you find countries such as the United States, Russia, China, Korea, Great Britain prophesied. Oh Christians will tell you that they are, if you know how to interpret the Bible.
​

Genesis 26:4 And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed.
Here God tells Isaac that his descendents (Hebrews) will be as numerous as the stars. Considering the number of stars there are in the universe, that would have to be on the order of 1020 Jewish people.
Isaiah 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.
Christians say that this verse is a prophecy of Jesus' birth to a virgin. There are a couple problems with this prophecy...First, virgin in this verse is a mistranslation of the Hebrew word "almah", which actually means "young woman". A young woman is not necessarily a virgin. "Bethulah" would have been the correct word to use if the author meant virgin. Second, nowhere in the New Testament is Jesus referred to as Immanuel.
Isaiah 17:1 The burden of Damascus. Behold, Damascus is taken away from being a city, and it shall be a ruinous heap.
Damascus is still inhabited today with over a million people, and hardly a ruinous heap.
Isaiah 19:4-5 And the Egyptians will I give over into the hand of a cruel lord; and a fierce king shall rule over them, saith the Lord, the LORD of hosts. And the waters shall fail from the sea, and the river shall be wasted and dried up.
The river mentioned here is the Nile. The Nile is still one of Egypt's greatest natural resource.
Isaiah 19:18 In that day shall five cities in the land of Egypt speak the language of Canaan, and swear to the LORD of hosts; one shall be called, The city of destruction.
The Canaanite language has never been spoken in Egypt, and is now an extinct.
Isaiah 52:1 Awake, awake; put on thy strength, O Zion; put on thy beautiful garments, O Jerusalem, the holy city: for henceforth there shall no more come into thee the uncircumcised and the unclean.
There are uncircumcised people living in Jerusalem even today.
Ezekiel 29:10-11 Behold, therefore I am against thee, and against thy rivers, and I will make the land of Egypt utterly waste and desolate, from the tower of Syene even unto the border of Ethiopia. No foot of man shall pass through it, nor foot of beast shall pass through it, neither shall it be inhabited forty years.
Never in its long history has Egypt ever been uninhabited for forty years.
Amos 9:15 And I will plant them upon their land, and they shall no more be pulled up out of their land which I have given them, saith the LORD thy God.
Many times, Jews have been pulled up out of their land. The ownership of their land is still being fought for.
Jonah 3:4 And Jonah began to enter into the city a day's journey, and he cried, and said, Yet forty days, and Nineveh shall be overthrown.
Nineveh was never overthrown. Why? Because God changed his mind in verse 3:10, despite what Malachi 3:6, Numbers 23:19 and Ezekiel 24:14 says about God never changing his mind.
Jonah 3:10 And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.
Zechariah 11:12 And I said unto them, If ye think good, give me my price; and if not, forbear. So they weighed for my price thirty pieces of silver.
Christians say that this prophecy is was fulfilled when Judas received 30 pieces of silver for betraying Jesus. Matthew 27:9 recites this verse, but incorrectly credits Jeremiah with the prophecy.
Matthew 1:22-23 Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.
Again, Jesus is never referred to as Emmanuel (Immanuel).
Matthew 2:23 And he came and dwelt in a city called Nazareth: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophets, He shall be called a Nazarene.
Nowhere in the Old Testament is such a prophecy found, so how could such a one be fulfilled?
Matthew 12:5 Or have ye not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless?
There is no passage in the Old Testament that can be attributed to what Jesus is saying here.
Matthew 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
Jesus states that all the signs marking the end of the world in Matthew 24 would be fulfilled before his generation ended. That generation ended 2000 years ago, and the world has not come to an end, neither has all those signs been fulfilled.
Matthew 27:9 Then was fulfilled that which was spoken by Jeremy the prophet, saying, And they took the thirty pieces of silver, the price of him that was valued, whom they of the children of Israel did value.
This prophecy was never spoken by Jeremiah.
Matthew 26:64 Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.
Jesus tells the high priest that he would see his second coming. The high priest is long dead, and Jesus hasn't returned yet.
Throughout the New Testament, the end of the world is prophesied as being very near, at hand, to be witnessed by those living at the time. Paul often told the people he preached to that they would be witnesses to Jesus' second coming. They are all long gone."

only problem ,none of the verses match the prophecies I was showing you from the bible.

secondly the only one that did match Isaiah 7:14

and this is what I have to say about the word almah....

"There is no instance where it can be proved that 'almâ designates a young woman who is not a virgin. The fact of virginity is obvious in Gen 24:43 where 'almâ is used of one who was being sought as a bride for Isaac." (R. Laird Harris, et al. Theological Wordbook of the Old Testament, p. 672.)

 

[SaraJarvis]

only problem ,none of the verses match the prophecies I was showing you from the bible.

secondly the only one that did match Isaiah 7:14

and this is what I have to say about the word almah....

"There is no instance where it can be proved that 'almâ designates a young woman who is not a virgin. The fact of virginity is obvious in Gen 24:43 where 'almâ is used of one who was being sought as a bride for Isaac." (R. Laird Harris, et al. Theological Wordbook of the Old Testament, p. 672.)

I'm aware of that; I was simply showing you many of the "prophecies" that have been disproved.

As I have said - the things that you cite and mention are not proof of a prophesy. I have debated this in detail on various occasions on this forum, so I'm not going to regurgitate the same facts at this present moment in time (it's 4:30am), but it is perfectly safe to say that those prophecies are to be taken with a pinch of salt. Good editing, nice guesswork, and a lot of natural occurrences that people attribute to God. No proof, however - none at all. Unless you want to find me a contemporary scientific article or historical article (not written by a theologian), proving me otherwise? I'll happily peruse it tomorrow morning.

 

[createdtoworship]

I'm aware of that; I was simply showing you many of the "prophecies" that have been disproved.

As I have said - the things that you cite and mention are not proof of a prophesy. I have debated this in detail on various occasions on this forum, so I'm not going to regurgitate the same facts at this present moment in time (it's 4:30am), but it is perfectly safe to say that those prophecies are to be taken with a pinch of salt. Good editing, nice guesswork, and a lot of natural occurrences that people attribute to God. No proof, however - none at all. Unless you want to find me a contemporary scientific article or historical article (not written by a theologian), proving me otherwise? I'll happily peruse it tomorrow morning.

well you actually have to read the material to come to that conclusion.
if you refuse to read prophecy material then you are closed minded to the idea that the Bible even remotely could be correct.

 

[SaraJarvis]

well you actually have to read the material to come to that conclusion.
if you refuse to read prophecy material then you are closed minded to the idea that the Bible even remotely could be correct.

I have read the prophesy material. My last post states that I have discussed it before, hence alerting you to the fact that I have read the material in question. When and where did I state that I had not read the material?

 

[createdtoworship]

I have read the prophesy material. My last post states that I have discussed it before, hence alerting you to the fact that I have read the material in question. When and where did I state that I had not read the material?

well many don't know that the prophecies are in fact future. 500-750 years in advance. They have to be prophecies. You didn't seem to be aware of that in my post. Maybe you have read the verses or prophecies before but didn't know that isaiah for example is way before the gospel writers.

 

[SaraJarvis]

well many don't know that the prophecies are in fact future. 500-750 years in advance. They have to be prophecies. You didn't seem to be aware of that in my post. Maybe you have read the verses or prophecies before but didn't know that isaiah for example is way before the gospel writers.

I already mentioned editing, etc. - Cyrus, for example.

"
100prophecies.org claims that before 681 BCE the prophet Isaiah predicted Persia would defeat Babylon and furthermore that this prophecy was fulfilled in 539 BCE. They cite Isaiah 45:1 as predicting that "Babylon's gates would open for Cyrus": [9]

This is what the Lord says to his anointed, to Cyrus, whose right hand I take hold of to subdue nations before him and to strip kings of their armor, to open doors before him so that gates will not be shut: (NIV)​

Thus bible inerrantists would have us believe that Isaiah prophesied specifically that Cyrus would be Babylon's conqueror and would enter through gates, and that he made this prediction over 140 years before the event. In reality, this section of Isaiah was written shortly before 537 BCE, so even if the prediction was not made after the event its occurrence at least was imminent and the name of Cyrus would have been known.
Isaiah's reference to gates, although the actual means Cyrus used to gain entry to the city of Babylon, was nonetheless meant figuratively. This is evidenced by noting the continued use of obviously figurative language in the next verse:

I will go before you and will level the mountains; I will break down gates of bronze and cut through bars of iron. (NIV)​

It should be noted that Babylon is not actually mentioned anywhere in the chapter.
It should also be noted that "anointed" as used in Isaiah 45:1 is translated into Hebrew as "messiah" and into Greek as "Christ." Although never admitted by Christians, this passage seems to assert that Cyrus is the messiah."

I have more sources, but I'm tired, and shall reply tomorrow.

 

[Elioenai26]

I already mentioned editing, etc. - Cyrus, for example.

"
100prophecies.org claims that before 681 BCE the prophet Isaiah predicted Persia would defeat Babylon and furthermore that this prophecy was fulfilled in 539 BCE. They cite Isaiah 45:1 as predicting that "Babylon's gates would open for Cyrus": [9]

This is what the Lord says to his anointed, to Cyrus, whose right hand I take hold of to subdue nations before him and to strip kings of their armor, to open doors before him so that gates will not be shut: (NIV)​

Thus bible inerrantists would have us believe that Isaiah prophesied specifically that Cyrus would be Babylon's conqueror and would enter through gates, and that he made this prediction over 140 years before the event. In reality, this section of Isaiah was written shortly before 537 BCE, so even if the prediction was not made after the event its occurrence at least was imminent and the name of Cyrus would have been known.
Isaiah's reference to gates, although the actual means Cyrus used to gain entry to the city of Babylon, was nonetheless meant figuratively. This is evidenced by noting the continued use of obviously figurative language in the next verse:

I will go before you and will level the mountains; I will break down gates of bronze and cut through bars of iron. (NIV)​

It should be noted that Babylon is not actually mentioned anywhere in the chapter.
It should also be noted that "anointed" as used in Isaiah 45:1 is translated into Hebrew as "messiah" and into Greek as "Christ." Although never admitted by Christians, this passage seems to assert that Cyrus is the messiah."

I have more sources, but I'm tired, and shall reply tomorrow.

Sarajarvis, we really do appreciate all that you are doing here.

But you do not have to go through the trouble.

There have been thousands of volumes tendered regarding prophecy. And the view that you espouse is nothing new.

Every prophecy that has been fulfilled or partially fulfilled was done so after the prophecy was written. Oftentimes many years after which precludes the writer from being able to know exactly what would take place unless he was divinely inspired.

Explain it away or ignore, as many seek to do with God Himself. It does not change the fact that He is.

I think a word from C.S. Lewis, who was an atheist but became a son of God after yielding his life to Christ, is appropriate here:

"A man can no more diminish God's glory by refusing to worship Him than a lunatic can put out the sun by scribbling the word, 'darkness' on the walls of his cell." - C.S. Lewis

 

[quatona]

look in the fridge, and you see it plainly. If you live with a closed mind and a closed door. You will not.

If that´s accepted for a manual, the manual for making the sandwich could have been reduced to "look at these items with an open mind, everything else is pretty much self explanatory".
Besides, a manual typically doesn´t blame the audience for being unable to explain what it is meant to explain.

 

[Dave Ellis]

Regarding the Prophecy bit...

There is not a single prophecy in the Bible that has been proven to have been fulfilled. Not one.

I'm aware there's many claims of prophecies being fulfilled, even within the book itself. However, claims of fulfilled prophecy is not proof those prophecies happened.

And it's also quite correct that many "prophecies" are extremely vague. Those are not prophecies. Prophecies have to be fairly well defined, or else it's not much of a prediction... For example, if I predict at some point in the future a bunch of religious nuts are going to go to war with each other, and a well known religious site will be destroyed... It's not a prophecy if it actually occurs.

If I say 27 years from now years a man named Bill Jones will walk across Lake Michigan totally unaided, and he'll be the second coming of Jesus. That would be a prophecy.