Divorce and RE-marriage

[Common Sense]

We Baptist may have more feelings about this that other Dnominations. I do have a strong feeling about it but would like to hear your feelings.
Let me give you the example I experienced personally. A good friend married just prior to being drafted into the Viet Nam War. When he came home he found his wife had left him for another man and was carrying the other man's child. No manner of pesuasion could get his wife to return to the marriage. They had a simple ,what we call, a nofault divorce. My friend continued with life, becoming a very active Christian, working His days off with a Ministry for Prisoners and their families that he felt led to organize. He worked alone for a few years many times being of greater help to grieving famly members at times than he was to prisoners. He never missed vistng a jail or prison at least one day a week. Some time during all this he met a good Christian Lady and they married with the encouragement and good wishes of his local Church, which hepled support his Ministry.
I entered the picture with a gspel singing group that visited one of the correctional centers that he did, I also was head of the my Churches Missions and funds for Missionaries . To get through this quickly, I ask that my friend be accept as a Misionary to prisoners and all ageed. Hard imes hit the Curch and we had to drop the prison ministry and a few others but with the undersanding that they would be returned in the order they were dropped when out finances got better, they did and my friends turn came to be picked up by the Church again, having a new Pastor at the time he demanded my friend not be funded because he had been divorced and he had been named as Pastor of a small Church he re-opened for those prisoners and familys that didn't atend Church anywhere else. He hadn't been ordained,he didn't consider himself a Pastor but he lost our funding because he had been called a Pastor. His home Church even dropped him and about the same time I gave up my position and left my Church. as my friend wrong, was I wrong? I can'tget spell check so forgive any type 0's.

 

[Bella Vita]

I do not believe divorce and remarriage is wrong if there are Biblical grounds for the divorce and adultery in the Bible is one of them. He had every right to get divorced after his wife cheated. And I think he is perfectly fine to remarry he shouldn't have to be alone for the rest of his life because of her sin outside of their marriage. This is one of those areas that is not black and white there are grey areas some situation I think are ridiculous but some are valid. He should not have been treated that way by the church that was wrong and not Christ like at all I feel bad for him.

 

[Common Sense]

Bella, the Church was more upset over him being called a Pastor than they were the divorce and re-marriage. I can't find where any other sin, if you would call it a sin, would disqualify a person from being a Pastor. I also suggest someChurch folks go through the qualifications for a Elder, Deacon or Pasor and think hard about how many of these they believe meet all the qialifications. I appreciate very much your support for my friend.He did ok because for every Church that dropped support for him, another picked it up, God did indeed Bless his ministry. I don't really see a grey area, the man had only one wife. In Biblical days often men had more than one wife, I never did understand how they could have a true marriage and do that. I believe God knew that with several wives a man could never serve as Deacon, Elder or Pastor, also aman and his wife can not be one if there are several of them. May God bless you and yours.

 

[whitebeaches]

no. you and your friend were not wrong. your friend was following his call led by God. the pastor and churches who dropped their support were judging in my opinion. there is nothing i've seen in the bible that prevents this man from being a missionary at all.

 

[Bella Vita]

Bella, the Church was more upset over him being called a Pastor than they were the divorce and re-marriage. I can't find where any other sin, if you would call it a sin, would disqualify a person from being a Pastor. I also suggest someChurch folks go through the qualifications for a Elder, Deacon or Pasor and think hard about how many of these they believe meet all the qialifications. I appreciate very much your support for my friend.He did ok because for every Church that dropped support for him, another picked it up, God did indeed Bless his ministry. I don't really see a grey area, the man had only one wife. In Biblical days often men had more than one wife, I never did understand how they could have a true marriage and do that. I believe God knew that with several wives a man could never serve as Deacon, Elder or Pastor, also aman and his wife can not be one if there are several of them. May God bless you and yours.

He should have been called a pastor and should not have lost support for that the church was wrong. He did not sin he did nothing wrong adultery is biblical grounds for divorce it is in scripture he had every right to divorce her for that. So he still had the right to be a deacon, elder, or pastor if he wanted to he had no sin in that divorce because it was adultery that ended the marriage.

 

[Common Sense]

Thank you both for the comments and uplifting, good to see you again whitebeaches.
May God Bless you and your famlies.

 

[nhamel802]

My x-wife was cheating on me throw out our time together with a girl. and now lives with her. and i divorce her and remarriage and i did fell like i had the right to as well.

 

[Common Sense]

nhamel, adultry is adultry , whether it be with a man or woman, she made the choice I believe divorce in your case was scriptural. Divorce can be much worse than physical pain and much harder to deal with. It can make it much harder to trust anyone in another relationship and that's not fair to the other person.If you meet someone else try hard not to carry that old baggage into the new relationship. God Bless

 

[whitebeaches]

thank you. may god bless you as well.

 

[Common Sense]

I was chating with a friend and the conversation came up about at least 50% of all marriages end in divorce and about 70% of second marriages. She said she had never considered Divorce but she had thought about murder, pretty funny. If only we would take the Bible serious about marriage and set emotions aside we wouldn't see many Divorces. But I believe we all know how powerful emotions are when we are in "LOVE."

 

[PaulEBear]

I was chating with a friend and the conversation came up about at least 50% of all marriages end in divorce and about 70% of second marriages.
. . .
If only we would take the Bible serious about marriage and set emotions aside we wouldn't see many Divorces. But I believe we all know how powerful emotions are when we are in "LOVE."

I have been told that I could never be a pastor, deacon or elder since I have been married and divorced. However, during that time, I was not a Christian and it was only after my second marriage failed that I came to know the Lord. To those who told me, it didn't matter. However, I have also read a couple of studies on the qualifications of elders and deacons in that the "husband of one wife" has been used out of context. I don't recall the exact reasons for it but, one has to know the culture that Paul was in while writing those instructions. The fact that I was not a Christian when these occurred for some reason did not exempt me. But, I also know of several deacons, at least one elder and several pastors who have been divorced and many of these occurred while they were already Christians....

Personally, I think the church is simply going to run out of "qualified" candidates if they stick with the literal interpretation. But, I am not one to change my church because I desire a position of leadership either. I do visitation to guys at the VA hospital as well and those who know me call me "Pastor Paul" even though I have no ordination or license. I am just a guy with a heart for these veterans and offer them encouragement, comfort and prayer. But, mostly I am a friend to those who don't have any family nearby and don't get visitors....

Bottom line for me is that I don't believe men should judge and penalize anyone called by God to ministry. Those who have walked the path of divorce are far better at counseling those who are considering divorce and much more capable of helping couples save a marriage, in my opinion. I believe the Lord has us experience different trials to prepare us for our futures serving Him.

On another subject, my dad was rejected by our church when I was a kid as a candidate for deacon on the basis that he had been previously married and his 'ex' had abandoned him for another man.... It didn't matter that my mother had been divorced as well, so long has the husband had not been. Anyway, that was the beginning of his descent back into a carnal life and just a few years later, he left us. Up until the point he was disqualified for deacon, he was a really good dad.... I don't think he ever got over it.

Paul

 

[Common Sense]

Paul, in those days many men had several wives, it was the culture of the times, God dosen't like Divorce, I think we all agree on that but He also understand that you didn't have but one wife at a time and since you were not saved those requirements didn't apply to you any way, He dosen't see any of that. You have to be comforable and fed in whatever Church you'r going to. You can find a Church that will accept you for who you are and not consider your past before conversion. If you ever hear that Christians are the only people who kill their wounded, it's a fact for some professing Christians, notice I say some but not all. To find anyone today meeting the requirments for the office of Deacon, Elder or Pastor, would be a real find. Read them again closely then think about who you know that passes the test. I'm not down on these men, I understand thet are living in a fleshly body just like all of us. Every one needs to take a close look at themselves before they even begin to try and look into anothers life.Get into a good Church and look past the people to the Lord. He knows your works and is the only one who can judge them. Your right about the counseling,a divorced person is the only one not alowed to councel thise with questions about divorce yet a reformed alcoholic is accepted to councel alcoholcs. a reformed drug addict can council someone on drugs. The point is who is the most qualified, those who have read about it or those who have lived through it?

 

[PaulEBear]

Paul, in those days many men had several wives, it was the culture of the times, God dosen't like Divorce, I think we all agree on that but He also understand that you didn't have but one wife at a time and since you were not saved those requirements didn't apply to you any way, He dosen't see any of that.
. . . .
You're right about the counseling, a divorced person is the only one not allowed to counsel these with questions about divorce yet a reformed alcoholic is accepted to counsel alcoholics. A reformed drug addict can council someone on drugs. The point is, who is the most qualified, those who have read about it or those who have lived through it?

Thank you, Common Sense, for your post. Your last sentence reminds me of the apostle Paul's statement of becoming all things to all men so that he may win some. I feel that those who have walked the path through divorce, drugs, alcohol, etc. and come to know the Lord should be used to win those who are struggling in those areas. Mostly because they have 'been there, done that' and understand the overwhelming temptation that goes with all of these as well as the false and temporary satisfaction or pleasure they bring.

There are a lot of excellent pastors I know of who found the Lord when they 'hit bottom' - Greg Laurie and Miles MacPherson are a couple who come to mind. I believe men in authority in some churches will be in serious trouble with God by thwarting His plans for some people through their own rules.

I like my little church and have known a few of those who are there for several years before we began attending. So, I will probably stay with them for a while. Right now, we have no elders or deacons, only a 'leadership team' that handles portions of the church's ministry. I asked my pastor why we do not have elders or deacons like other Baptist churches and he said "no one is qualified" and I asked him to explain and he said the handful of men who could qualify have been married more than once.... When I asked why this was so at a later time, it was apparent that no reasoning was going to change his mind. I asked if that was before they knew the Lord he said, "it doesn't matter".... Who knows, perhaps we will only be there for a time but, my purpose is not to seek being a deacon or elder but, to serve the Lord with my time and talents.

At this point, my talents and desires are not something this church is in great need of other than fellowship with friends. And, although this is a Southern Baptist church, I don't feel bound to any one denomination. I may visit a couple of other churches that some Christian work friends have invited me to visit. Who knows, perhaps the Lord will open that door. In the mean time, I will simply continue my studying and listen to the Holy Spirit and continue in prayer. I don't want to stray off topic any further though....

Thanks again!

God Bless!

Paul

 

[SoulBap6]

PaulEBear

I ran into the same problem because I had been Married before, and Divorced remarried. I was told no you cannot be a Deacon or a Pastor, I ask why?

I was not saved at that time. I was told don't make no difference you were married before. I had a few word with the Pastor of the Church and a few of the Staff. I asked what qualified them in Judging does the lord not save or forgive, the answer was still you don't qualify.

I went on a Crusade to get to the bottom of this issue. So I studied the Bible and the qualifications then I wanted to know what justified Divorce, Adultery though God does not like it. I finally came to the conclusion that there interpretation of the Bible and a few other Pastors I talked to, did not agree with this Pastor and Staff.

When people today are faced with adultery, and I have seen a lot of Pastors who are no longer Pastors because of Adultery, and wives to,it is a mess. Oh and by the way the one Pastor who told me this, resigned because of Adultery. I have since this time I preach at a Rescue mission, and at a Veterans home. and though I am not a Pastor the people at the Mission call me Pastor, amazing how God works.

 

[PaulEBear]

. . . I have since this time I preach at a Rescue mission, and at a Veterans home. and though I am not a Pastor the people at the Mission call me Pastor, amazing how God works.

SoulBap6, our stories have a similarity. I haven't very good preaching skills although some people have said I do present myself as a preacher and should consider doing that. Our little church does have four others who are conducting services as two rest homes and our main Rescue Mission downtown. A couple of them do the Wednesday evening sermons and we have one young man who is being mentored as a pastor....

Being a military veteran, I can relate to these guys very well and most of them have some great stories to tell. I could spend many hours there just listening to their stories. It's the older guys from WW-II and Korea who are quickly passing on and many of these stories will never be told....

The few times I got to visit the canteen at our VA hospital, I have seen some of the same guys there who are in long-term rehab or treatment. Many of them come from a long distance for treatment and have no family here so, other than their fellow patients, I am someone they see and seem to open up to. Once they know that I am interested in their spiritual condition, they either withdraw or want to talk more. But, they too call me "pastor" and I don't try and correct them since that is how they identify with me...

I sincerely believe that there are a lot of men called to be pastors who are denied ordination or licensing by their churches or denomination for a whole stack of reasons. But, if that is your calling, it is better that you follow what the Holy Spirit has given you than to suppress the Lords calling in your life. Who knows, the lives you impact could be the key to the beginning of another great revival. Personally, I would never want to be tied down or have to maintain a denominational 'label'. I prefer to be one of "Jesus People" as my wife likes to say or simply called a Christian without any other identifiers.

And, I am certainly not going to pursue trying to make a living at being a pastor since it requires ordination or licensing by men. My calling from the Lord is sufficient for me. Besides, there are some Christian organizations who offer ordination for those who are truly called to that ministry if one really needs some kind of paper in order to preform weddings or things the government may require.

In the mean time, as I mentioned before, I will keep my eyes, ears and heart open for the Lord's leading and continue doing what I am now. As an aside, I have spoken with the chaplain at the hospital who told me they do not have any volunteer positions with the chaplain's office. And, the chaplains are pretty restricted on what they can and cannot do as VA chaplains. However, the VA can't do anything about someone who is visiting patients there who wants to show the Love of Christ to those in need and absolutely no problem with evangelizing either! The chaplain said that he would like to have a lot more Christian men who would do just that as it would fill in a gap that they are officially not allowed to do....

Thanks for your message as well. I hope we don't stray too far off the subject here and it appears as though this would be a good discussion in a new topic....

Paul

 

[SoulBap6]

PaulEBear

I am a veteran Vietnam and I see a few Gulf war vets at the rescue mission, and at the Veterans home Korean war not to many wwII vets. I don't know about mans interpretation of the Bible, I follow what God has layed on my heart, for four years I preached at a Maximum security Prison, help lead many people to Christ.

I have been at the Mission going on five years and God has blessed me in helping to lead many to Christ there I believe in Following what God has led me to do. I think Church is important in Learning and Growing. I also believe that many people are hindered in doing the will of God because of People perception, every person that is a Christian should be doing something for the Lord faith without works is dead.

I think if God has called you to do what ever do it. I feel that if I had sat back and done nothing there would be people that would not have surrendered their lives to Christ. Paul if God is calling answer titles mean nothing, the work of the Lord is the most important thing you can do. God be with you and thank you for your reply.

 

[Common Sense]

SoulBap6, I think Paul is going to do fine, he is more or less doing just as you suggest, hes heping folks that need his help and God will bless it. My experience in the Prison Ministry was a great one. I only played and sang with a couple other Christian friends, the person I talked about that was shunned and support dropped was the friend I followed and he did the preaching.He would ask me to help when several inmates came forward and it was the first time I knew I had hepled lead someone to the Lord. There were some problems in my family that my wife and I were really down and worrying about but when we left that place we were both walkin on air. What a blessing we had. Those guys were at the end of their rope and had hit bottom,some conversions were genuine, some wern't but we found it well worth our practicing and making the drive there. That ministry isn't for everyone and I understand that but there is a ministry for all born again believers.I understand the stumbling blocks that you must often face, I see it as a sign that the Devil isn't pleased at all. Praise the Lord and thanks so much for your service to your country.

 

[SoulBap6]

Common Sense
I was told by my Pastor that he could not do what I do in the Ministry, that I'm in at the Rescue Mission, When I was Preaching in Prison my wife and I worked together I had the women on Friday Evening and the Men on Sunday Afternoon, I managed to donate a Guitar to the Prison so I could use it in the Prison.

I play and Sing and my wife sings also, but it really was a tuff ministry and after awhile my Wife just could not do it anymore, it broke her heart to see the young Pregnant women, knowing they would have to give their Child away, and the Condition in Prison. I had another Brother come with me instead.

There were some that were truly saved and I thank God he Gave me the privilege to lead them to Christ. I see you had some of the same experiences, Ain't God Good. I was at Church today working the Alter and I led a Soldier to Christ this Morning. I rejoice when God gives me that privilege. I don't receive any support from any Church God provides Thank you for your comments and God be with you.

 

[Common Sense]

SoulBap6, We did get a donation once and it came from a guard. May God Bless your Ministry.

 

[Wood man]

It's weird, but I saw an episode of the Jerry Springer show that had a very touching part. A woman, Amanda, had cheated on her husband, Chris, and wanted to divorce Chris because he was not rich and could not keep a full time professional job. After reading what the Bible says about divorce and remarriage, especially Matthew 5:32, I can not help but feel very sorry for Chris. Especially as Amanda was a really cute, beautiful woman.

It's even to the point where, assuming that Amanda divorced Chris and was getting re-married, sometimes I could imagine Chris reading Matthew 5:32, taking it personally, and then crashing Amanda's (second) wedding by dumping a great big homemade vat of burning gasoline on Amanda and her new "husband", shouting "Burn in Hell, you partners in adultery!"