Should Christians support Jews in rebuilding of Third Temple?

[DennisTate]

Would it make a differernt to the prophecy if we didn't? Is the rebuilding of the Third Temple not inevitable if God said it would happen?

I've been thinking about this question over these past few days Theofane and I really do feel that it does make a difference.

Luke 18:8

I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?

I may be wrong but I am of the opinion that just as the twelve tribes of Israel had to leave their homes and follow Moshe/Moses so also there are decisions for us all to make at this time that can be compared with the taking of the land of Canaan!

I have to admit though that timing is a critical component, there is a tradition in Jewish Talmud that 30,000 soldiers from the tribe of Ephrayim left Egypt about thirty or forty ears previous to the deliverance led by Moshe/Moses so yes....it can be dangerous to do the right thing...at the wrong time! One version of the story can be read here:

Book of Jasher 75

 

[marshlewis]

Would you prefer my posts to be incessant rants about the four horsemen, the anti-christ and not forgetting the gay mafia?

Jlujan69 puts it so much more eloquently and I share his words 100%.

No I like the way you post now. But when you present theology as rational argument its spooky.
I read all your post I come across BTW. Big fan.

 

[Kalevalatar]

No I like the way you post now. But when you present theology as rational argument its spooky.
I read all your post I come across BTW. Big fan.

Well, the question was not: Should Christians support Israel/the State of Israel in rebuilding of Third Temple?
In which case I would have answered that international law forbids countries from building permanent structures on land they control through military occupation and no, Christians should not support illegalities. Which essentially says the same thing as my first answer: you are not much of a "friend" if you support your friend's self-destructive behaviour or breaking the law.

 

[marshlewis]

Well, the question was not: Should Christians support Israel/the State of Israel in rebuilding of Third Temple?
In which case I would have answered that international law forbids countries from building permanent structures on land they control through military occupation and no, Christians should not support illegalities. Which essentially says the same thing as my first answer: you are not much of a "friend" if you support your friend's self-destructive behaviour or breaking the law.

touche!.

 

[DennisTate]

In the bible it says,that everyone that worsip God,let them do it in there own way,don't cause them to sin,in there mind,thats what I mean to being supported.

Excellent comment Crazy-Cat-Woman!

Micah 4:5

For all people will walk every one in the name of his god, and we will walk in the name of the LORD our God for ever and ever.

It seems obvious that Christians who aspire to be involved in politics are supposed to learn a great deal from the example of historical King Cyrus who gave freedom of religion to all 127 provinces of the Persian Empire!

 

[DennisTate]

It's a tough one.

Part of me feels that the Jews should have a Temple on their holiest site. After all, there existed two temples for hundreds of years that was the centre of the Jewish world. The Dome of the Rock was deliberately built on the Temple Mount, as Muslims see the site as sacred too. Yet Muslims have Mecca and Medina, which are more holy to them than Jerusalem.

Another part of me feels that the Dome of the Rock and Al Aqsa are both incredible beautiful works of art (although, in terms of religious architecture, nothing compares to the beauty of the 2nd Temple imo). Muslims have been praying at the site for a thousand years. Moreover, the Temple Mount was disused for hundreds of years before the Muslims built Al Aqsa on top of it. It was destroyed by the Romans; it wasn't as if the Muslims came and deliberately demolished the Temple to build their mosque.

I guess the best we can do is sharing the site, so that Jews and Muslims have equal access to the Temple Mount. Yet I know that the two sides hate each other too much to ever make that a practical solution.

I may be wrong but I am of the opinion that our supporting the Jewish people to rebuild their Jerusalem Third Temple will be one of the reasons why God causes this event to occur that was predicted by a woman in Edmonton?!


Mary A Burris:
"February 6, 2009

While spending time with the Lord He reminded me of Ali's funeral (Ali was my first husband who was murdered in 94/95) and how the Holy Spirit had me praying in tongues and in travail for the muslim people's salvation in Christ Jesus.

He assured me that He heard my prayer that day. Suddenly I became very excited in my spirit and asked the Holy Spirit

"What's going on?"

This is what He said:

You'll see... It'll be explosive when it happens. They will flock towards salvation as the hardness is lifted off of their hearts and the scales are removed from their eyes. They are a passionate people but their purpose has not yet been served. Upon the fulfillment of their role in the history of mankind there will be a flood of souls pouring into the kingdom of God for His glory. They have been scorned, they have been accused, but the ones who are pure in heart shall see God. When He reveals Himself to them in all His glory they will prostrate themselves before Him in a way they have never done before. When He opens the eyes of their understanding and unstops their ears to hear what His Holy Spirit is revealing the waves of tears of repentance will flood the ground they occupy and they will be purged once and for all time of the stains of their unbelief. The Lord is calling out for a pure and holy nation before God and He will do as He chooses and choose as He pleases and mankind will truly stand in awe of His mighty Majesty and Splendor as the precious souls are ushered into His kingdom.

GIVE HIM PRAISE AND GLORY!" (Mary Burris)

 

[DennisTate]

Well, the Dome of the Rock is the 3rd most important sight in Islam; the top two are Mecca and Medina. This is typical Christian pandering to their extremists, in somehow fulfilling some obscure prophecy that may or may not happen as planned by the Nicene Counsel.

Greeting MuslimSoldier4life!

Actually I read an article regarding the Jerusalem Third Temple that quoted an Islamic prediction that at the time that the Jews rebuild their Temple the "Jesus of Islam" will be involved???!!!!

I don't know much about this prophecy so if you can add any details that would be interesting?

Fazlul Islam:

SECOND COMING OF JESUS

The Christians as well as Muslims believe that Jesus will return at a time close to the end of the world. In Islam, Jesus is considered to be a Prophet and Messenger of God who was sent to guide the Children of Israel with a new scripture, the Injīl or Gospel. He is considered the Messiah. He is also a word from God and a spirit from Him. He is considered honoured in this world and in the Hereafter, and he is one of those brought nearest to God. As a result, Islam teaches Muslims to love Jesus, honour him, and believe in him.

The Qur’an, considered by Muslims to be God’s final and authoritative revelation to humankind, mentions Jesus twenty-five times. It states that Jesus was born to Mary as the result of virginal conception, a miraculous event which occurred by the decree of God. Islamic tradition and commentaries states that he will return to earth near the Day of Judgment to restore justice and save mankind from hell fire. Jesus is seen in Islam as a precursor to Muhammad, and is believed by Muslims to have foretold the latter’s coming.

The Qur’an describes virginal conception of Jesus in Mary, which is recounted throughout several passages in the Qur’an. According to the Qur’anic narrations, Mary had withdrawn into a temple and was visited by angel Gabriel to give the glad tidings of a holy son. The Qur’an states that God sent the message through the angel Gabriel to Mary that God had honoured Mary among the women of all nations as she will give birth to a holy son, named Isa’ (Jesus), the Messiah and he (Jesus) will be a great prophet, to whom God will give the Injil (the original Gospel) and he (Jesus) will speak in infancy and maturity and will be a companion to the most righteous. When this good news was given to Mary, she asked the angel how she can have a baby when no man has touched her. This same question of Mary is found in the Bible. But, in the answer of this question, the Qur’an differs from the Bible; the Bible says Mary was found to be with child (Jesus) from the Holy Spirit, but the Qur’an denies it and states that the reply of the angel to Mary was “Even though when God wants to create a matter, he merely wills it and the things come into being”. So, the Qur’anic version is, Jesus was created from the act of God’s will. The Qur’an compares this miraculous creation of Jesus with the creation of Adam where God created Adam by His act of will. According to the Qur’an, the same answer was given to the question of Zechariah, when he asked how his wife could conceive a baby while she was old.

Muslims believe that God revealed to Jesus a new scripture, the Injīl (gospel), while also declaring the truth of the previous revelations – the Tawrat (Torah) and the Zabur (Psalms). Descended 600 years after Jesus’ life on earth, the Qur’an speaks favorably of the Injīl, which it describes as a scripture that fills the hearts of its followers with meekness and piety. It is argued that the Qur’an says that the original Biblical message has been distorted over time.

According to Islamic tradition which describes this graphically, Jesus’ descent will be in the midst of wars fought by Mahdi, known in Islamic eschatology as the redeemer of Islam, against the Antichrist and his followers. Jesus, considered in Islam as a Muslim, will abide by the Islamic teachings. Eventually, Jesus will exterminate the Antichrist and false messiah, and then everyone from the Jews and Christians will believe in him.

Prophet Mohammad said, “The Hour will not be established until the son of Mary (Jesus) descends amongst you as a just ruler. Money will be in abundance so that nobody will accept it as charitable gifts.” - (Al- Bukhari, Al-Muslim).
After the death of Mahdi, Jesus will assume leadership. This is a time associated in Islamic narrative with universal peace and justice. Jesus’ rule is said to be around forty years, after which he will die. Mankind will then perform the funeral prayer for him and then bury him in the city of Medina in a grave left vacant beside Prophet Mohammad. - (Al- Bukhari, Al-Muslim).

 

[OneThatGotAway]

Shabbath Shaluem,

In response to Eporu Ronald’s study of the Jerusalem Temple Rebuilding Prophecy:

1. There will be no Cyrus II to setup any church in Jerusalem; no prophecy supports this theory. The verse John 2:18 is not referring to Cyrus but to the body of Yahshuo (aka Jesus Christ) being raised in three days. That verse has been fulfilled by his resurrection from the dead. The days mentioned here is not referring to 3,000 years; because the people in this discussion are men not God. Although a thousand years is like a day to God; nevertheless, when referring to days and years, God knows that men understand a day is a day and a year is a year. If the temple is rebuild then the church will returned to following the rest of God’s laws; and not picking some of them to obey like at buffet line. However, the Son of God and not any so-called Cyrus II will lead the rebuilding of temple upon his return as King over the earth. No Holy Scriptures supports any Cyrus II. The church will not unify or lead anyone in Jerusalem; however, the twelve tribes of Israel will lead all the peoples of the world in serving and worshipping God. At that time, the sons of Israel will reveal to the church that they all have been a victim of the following prophecy:

“YAHWEH, my strength, and my fortress, and my refuge in the day of affliction, the Gentiles (especially the churches) shall come unto thee from the ends of the earth, and shall say, Surely our fathers have inherited lies, vanity, and [things] wherein [there is] no profit." ---- YeremYahu 16:19

Again, the fulfillment of the restoration of Israel will be lead by the Yeshuo the Messiah (aka Jesus Christ) and through Sons of Israel. No church or Gentiles (especially any Cyrus II) will lead this effort because they currently do not follow all of the laws of God. Every prophecy points to the Sons of Israel and no church; because the church is currently under the curse of Jeremiah 16:19.

2. True, King Manasheh did evil before the eyes of God by disobeying God’s laws. He also mixed the ways of God with pagan traditions. However, the synagogues, churches, and mosques today do some of things that King Manasheh did in the land of Israel over two thousands of years ago. They disobey some of the very laws of God and mix pagan traditions into their weekly worship. Choosing Sunday over the Seventh-day Sabbath is one of them. Choosing Easter over Yahweh’s Passover is another, to name a few. That is why the prophecy of Jeremiah 16:19 has not been fulfilled yet.

3. Lastly, in response to Eporu Ronald’s third point: True, the Son of God will return to established his Kingdom on earth but not the help of any church or gentile like a Cyrus II figure. Instead he will show the synagogues, churches, mosques, and temples of the curse in Jeremiah 16:19 and re-establish what a few Jews and Christians have kept:

"And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that [have] no [rain]; there shall be the plague, wherewith YAHWEH will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles. This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of ALL NATIONS that come not up to keep the Feast of Tabernacles." ---- Zechariah 14:18-19

The Lord Yahshuo the Messiah, along with the biological sons of Israel will re-established Hebrew roots and the original Feasts of YAHWEH that has been mis-labeled as just Jewish holidays. I strongly encourage all Christians and Muslims to return to their Hebrew roots and traditions mentioned in the so-called Old Testament books of the Bible; which are not old as Catholics want us to view them.

Shabbath Shaluem.

 

[DennisTate]

OneThatGotAway...I am extremely glad that you recognize that Moslems too will return to the roots of their faith! I suspect that this will be a significant part of the predicted return of the lost tribes of Israel to the G-d of Abraham as predicted in the Catholic Bible.

Douay-Rheims Catholic Bible, Ecclesiasticus Chapter 48

And Elias the prophet stood up, as a fire, and his word burnt like a torch.........

Who wast taken up in a whirlwind of fire, in a chariot of fiery horses. [10] Who art registered in the judgments of times to appease the wrath of the Lord, to reconcile the heart of the father to the son, and to restore the tribes of Jacob.

The scholarship of Mr. Tsvi Misinai indicates that the Palestinian people may well be the great, great, great....grandchildren of the Messianic Jewish disciples of Simon bar Jonah/Peter/Cephas who did NOT join in the Bar Kochba Revolt and thus were NOT expelled from the province of Judaea after the revolt was crushed.

Tsvi Misinai - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Tsvi Misinai claims that the majority of the Palestinian people—including those with Israeli citizenship or residency, known variously as Arab citizens of Israel, Arab Israelis, Israeli Arabs, including the Bedouin Arabs of Israel—are descendants of the ancient Hebrews, as most of the world's Jewish ethnic divisions are.[6] Furthermore, he claims that at least half of them are quietly aware of this fact.[7]
According to Misinai, unlike the ancestors of the modern day Jews who were city dwellers to a large extent, the Hebrew ancestors of the Palestinians were rural dwellers, and were allowed to remain in the land of Israel to work the land and supply Rome with grain and olive oil

 

[DennisTate]

Shabbath Shaluem,

In response to Eporu Ronald’s study of the Jerusalem Temple Rebuilding Prophecy:

1. There will be no Cyrus II to setup any church in Jerusalem; no prophecy supports this theory. ......]

But what about:

Isaiah 45 (Blue Letter Bible: KJV - King James Version)

Thus saith the LORD to his anointed, to Cyrus, whose right hand I have holden, to subdue nations before him; and I will loose the loins of kings, to open before him the two leaved gates; and the gates shall not be shut;
.......
I have raised him up in righteousness, and I will direct all his ways: he shall build my city, and he shall let go my captives, not for price nor reward, saith the LORD of hosts.vs 13

vs 4,5 certainly indicate that this Cyrus person is somebody who does not actually know the G-d of Abraham. Ancient King Cyrus was a pagan but the modern Cyrus could even have serious inclinations toward agnosticism but a respect for religious freedom even if he personally disagrees with the specifics. Ancient King Cyrus allowed freedom of religion in all 127 provinces of the Persian Empire.

Some tales of how the prophet Daniel mentored and taught him indicate that he was a touch too superstitious!

For Jacob my servant's sake, and Israel mine elect, I have even called thee by thy name: I have surnamed thee, though thou hast not known me.I [am] the LORD, and [there is] none else, [there is] no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:

As far as whether this prophecy by Isaiah has any relevance:
Luke 24:25

Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:

I have to admit that this question is rather confusing....I certainly do not know the when for the Jerusalem Third TEmple to be built...but my opinion at this time is that it does have to happen!

There is a significant bulge in the southern wall that I am sure fits somehow with the prediction by Rabbi Jesus/Yahushua that not one stone will be on top of another?!

http://www.templemountfaithful.org/News/20020829.htm

The Bulge on the Southern Wall of the Temple Mount Becomes Larger

Archaeologists Say that the Southern Wall Will Soon Collapse Together with the Mosque
The Temple Mount Faithful to Sharon: Let it collapse! This is the Hand of G-d!

Matthew 24:2

And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

The 2000 year anniversary of this statement would be 2030 or 2031...or considerably earlier if we use a 360 day prophetic year as seems to be needed for many prophecies?!

 

[interpreter]

Greeting MuslimSoldier4life!

Actually I read an article regarding the Jerusalem Third Temple that quoted an Islamic prediction that at the time that the Jews rebuild their Temple the "Jesus of Islam" will be involved???!!!!

I don't know much about this prophecy so if you can add any details that would be interesting?

Muslims call Jesus the son of a harlot.

 

[AtheistVet]

Muslims call Jesus the son of a harlot.

(Remember) when the angels said, “O Mary, God gives you good news of a word from Him (God), whose name is the Messiah Jesus, son of Mary, revered in this world and the Hereafter, and one of those brought near (to God). He will speak to the people from his cradle and as a man, and he is of the righteous.” She said, “My Lord, how can I have a child when no mortal has touched me?” He said, “So (it will be). God creates what He wills. If He decrees a thing, He says to it only, ‘Be!’ and it is.” (Quran, 3:45-47)

Well, don't you look silly.

 

[DennisTate]

Muslims call Jesus the son of a harlot.

Sufi Moslems and genuine Islamic Mystics from any branch of Islam generally would not do that!

 

[DennisTate]

Well, don't you look silly.

Gracias AtheistVet!

For the record I am wide open to the possibility that the number one most significant latter day King Cyrus type of person could be an atheist or agnostic!

Two of the most astonishing acts of altruism by any government of any nation was Operation Moses and Operation Solomon where the nation of Israel....generally controlled by caucasians.....sent planes to Ethiopia to rescue thousands of black Falasha Jews and bring them to Israel....give them citizenship and a whole new level of life, at least materially anyway!

Some of the most vehement supporters of these risky operations were agnostics and full fledged atheists!

 

[DennisTate]

How do you support everyone when you have two or more opposing sides?

Good question JustMeSee!

The best answer that I can think of is to act as an unbiased referee, observer and advisor who attempts to objectively assist each group to understand the best and most important points in the position of the other group!

Also, any film project that does not address a conflict is boring so Christians might be able to organize documentary, reality, semi-reality and full fledged fictional films that help each side to understand each other better and respect each other more!

 

[DennisTate]

I believe Christians should prepare themselves to meet Jesus at his second coming. Be a light and help spread the gospel. The Jews need the gospel just like the Muslims. The Jews do not accept Jesus as their Messiah, they are hostile to Christians who try to convert them. Why waste energy on people who do not have any interest in the founder of Christianity or his followers. Prophecy will be fulfilled whether we agree with the building of the temple. Our concern is to fulfill the Commission of Jesus.

.....]

Good questions Contented. Over on the Adventist forum yesterday I ran into information that could be highly relevant. Mrs. Ellen White reported having extensive out of the body experiences in which she was given information that was generally accepted by a significant number of Seventh Day Adventists. I read several of her books around 1990. She certainly was a gifted author....in my opinion not quite as good as Pastor Rick Joyner...but nonetheless....a very good author!

I was informed that Mrs. Ellen White specifically cautioned Seventh Day Adventists to not get sidetracked into supporting the group of people who would support the Jewish people in their efforts to rebuild the Jerusalem Third Temple because as she was shown the future she saw that very very few Orthodox or Chassidic Jews came to an understanding of Rabbi Jesus/Yahushua as Moshiach/Messiah the Passover Lamb just because Christians had supported them in this way.

I personally am in a way even more determined to support this cause now even though I do suspect that the out of the body experiences and visions of the future as shown to Mrs. Ellen White could well be genuine!

Why you ask?

Because I take the vision given to Howard Storm very seriously. During his NDE he specifically asked about why God had allowed the holocaust to occur and he was shown that a very high percentage of the Jewish victims of the holocaust had gone upward to heaven or at least the type of paradise that the thief on the cross was predicted to go to!

So why do I so vehemently support Jewish control of the Temple Mount and the rebuilding of the Jerusalem Third Temple?

1. I have some good friends who are Jewish and I have zero desire to change them into a clone of myself.

2. I believe that the rebuilding of the Jerusalem Third Temple is important and will bring an amazing blessing on all the nations of the earth...exactly as said would happen in the Book of Genesis.

3. I regard that Jewish people tend to be amazingly creative and so giving them support for what they want could result in what I want happening...which is the addressing of serious modern problems through the production of films and other forms of art....

4. I personally feel a deep guilt over what we Christians have done to the Jewish and Islamic and First Nations and Black and Indian etc., etc., peoples but it may be easier to translate that into something specific for the Jewish community due to the fact that I believe firmly the the Jewish Bible law, prophets and writings must be fully and completely fulfilled!



http://www.christianforums.com/t7647330/
Former atheist Howard Storm asks about holocaust during his NDE?!



II Corinthians 12:2-4:

I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth; ) such an one caught up to the third heaven.
And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth; )
How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.

Howard Storm:

I asked how God could let the Holocaust of World War II happen. We were transported to a railway station as a long train of freight cars was being unloaded of its human cargo. The guards were screaming and beating the people into submission. The people were Jewish men, women, and children. Exhausted from hunger and thirst, they were totally disoriented from the ordeal of being rounded up and sent on a long journey to an unknown destination. They believed that they were going to work camps, and that their submission to the brutality of the guards was the only way to survive.

We went to the area where the selection process was taking place and heard the guards talking about "the Angel Maker." We went to the place the guards were referring to as "the Angel Maker," which was a series of ovens. I saw piles of naked corpses being loaded into the ovens, and I began to cry. ...."These are the people God loves." Then he said, "Look up." Rising out of the smoke of the chimneys, I saw hundreds of people being met by thousands of angels taking them up into the sky. There was great joy in the faces of the people, and there appeared to be no trace of a memory of the horrendous suffering they had just endured. How ironic that the guards sarcastically called the ovens "the Angel Maker."
...
I asked how God could allow this to happen. They told me that this was not God's will. This was an abomination to God. God wants this never to happen again. This was the sacrifice of an innocent people to whom God had given the law to be an example, a light, to the rest of the world. This Holocaust was breaking God's heart...."

I asked, Why does God let things like this happen? They told me that God was very unhappy with the course of human history and was going to intervene to change the world. God had watched us sink to depths of depravity and cruelty at the very time that he was giving us the instruments to make the world a godlier world. God had intervened in the world many times before, but this time God was going to change the course of human events.// (Howard Storm, My Descent Into Death, page 42,43)

 

[DennisTate]

I was forced to select the last option because a third temple is not prophesied, The third temple concept is based on a mis-translation of Daniel.

That is an interesting theory Interpreter!

Are you saying that this verse should be translated differently?


Daniel 9 (Blue Letter Bible: KJV - King James Version)

Daniel 9:27

And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make [it] desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

 

[JustMeSee]

Muslims call Jesus the son of a harlot.

I am very curious as to where you learned this to be a fact. Care to share?

 

[DennisTate]

I am very curious as to where you learned this to be a fact. Care to share?

Back on page 5 I posted a message about the Islamic beliefs regarding Rabbi Jesus from an actual Sufi Muslim. If you saw it already....sorry!

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

I personally was greatly encouraged by the response that I received to this question when I posed it on the Christian Heritage Party of Canada discussion forum

Should Christians support the right of Jews to rebuild their Third Temple?
Yes, I believe that Jewish freedom to offer sacrifices even in the Messianic era fits with scripture. 77% [ 7 ]

No, I believe this would cause a Middle Eastern war. 11% [ 1 ]

No, I believe that this will set the stage for the anti-Christ. 11% [ 1 ]

Total Votes : 9
.

Do the non-Christian Jews of today believe the destruction of Herod's Temple was an act of divine wrath and retribution?
Who's to say the next future Jewish Temple will also not suffer the same fate?
If the Jews want to build another Temple, that is ok by me. It will be a great tourist attraction.....

Luke 19:44 And they shall be leveling Thee and Thy offspring in Thee, and not shall be leaving stone upon stone in Thee, instead which not Thou knew the time of thy visitation/overseeing/inspection".

Reve 14:8 And another Messenger, second-one follows saying "She falls, She falls, Babylon the Great,
the out of the wine of the fury of the fornication of her she has given to drink all the nations".

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD

..............The day on which Titus encompassed Jerusalem, was the feast of the Passover.............

.......The Temple now presented little more than a heap of ruins............


......