New Perspective on Paul.

[Edial]

Folks.
Instead of arguing what belong or does not belong here please report or ask in MSC.

Promotion of non-Messianic doctrines as well as non-Nicean doctrines is not allowed.

I will be deleting some posts.

SBjazzman, if you have questions please open a private thread in Members Services where we could discuss such things.

Thank you.
Ed

I stand corrected - someone did report.

 

[Messianic Jewboy]

This is better that video doesn't represent the New Perspective.

Paul And the Jewish Tradition - YouTube

Has any one watched the video yet? A friend and myself have been talking to a rabbi at the Lubavitch house and have been thinking about showing him the video.

 

[yonah_mishael]

Folks.
Instead of arguing what belong or does not belong here please report or ask in MSC.

Promotion of non-Messianic doctrines as well as non-Nicean doctrines is not allowed.

I will be deleting some posts.

SBjazzman, if you have questions please open a private thread in Members Services where we could discuss such things.

Thank you.
Ed

The problem with reporting is that people get in trouble and suspended. I think we all prefer to handle decorum "in house," so to speak, because we're frustrated with seeing our regular members disappear for months at a time. (Like visionary has now been suspended, and she's regular as cranberry juice on this forum.)

 

[Chaplain David]

Has any one watched the video yet? A friend and myself have been talking to a rabbi at the Lubavitch house and have been thinking about showing him the video.

While everyone might not agree it would be a lesson from a respectable cleric to get the Rabbi's opinion despite the Rabbi not being MJ. Shalom.

 

[Chaplain David]

The problem with reporting is that people get in trouble and suspended. I think we all prefer to handle decorum "in house," so to speak, because we're frustrated with seeing our regular members disappear for months at a time. (Like visionary has now been suspended, and she's regular as cranberry juice on this forum.)

Reporting can indeed result in CPM's, warnings, infractions, and bans based on a consensus about a a rule violation or violations. But that is often what is needed to get a member's attention who needs to change some things for the better.

However going to MSC is not reporting. It is a place to come with problems, for mediation, with questions, for help. The staff are like counselors and all are Admins so they have a high level of knowledge and forum experience. Also, if someone has had difficulty interpreting the rules and following them things can be clarified. In fact sanctions can even be appealed but the member has to be willing to work with the MSC staff and make positive changes.

Shalom Brothers and Sisters.

David

 

[Edial]

The problem with reporting is that people get in trouble and suspended. I think we all prefer to handle decorum "in house," so to speak, because we're frustrated with seeing our regular members disappear for months at a time. (Like visionary has now been suspended, and she's regular as cranberry juice on this forum.)

Yonah, please do not worry about things.
But you might be right about reporting.
Send PMs then ...

Once we decide on how to conclude what is what in this forum MSC might do a thorough re-evaluation of some folks' profiles.

Good seeing you, by the way.

 

[Lulav]

Here's a book that's free right now for those who have read or are interested in the New Perspective on Paul

Justifying Paul Among Jews and Christians? A Critical Investigation of the New Perspective on Paul in Light of Jewish-Christian Dialogue


Product Description

The purpose of this interdisciplinary dissertation is to study and analyse the New Perspective on Paul and its aftermath from the angle of Jewish-Christian relations. Its central aim is to evaluate the underlying premises at play in Pauline interpretations with special reference to the issue of supersessionism (the question of whether the Church has replaced or is considered inherently superior to Israel), and then compare the results of that research with how contemporary Jewish-Christian dialoguers are responding to those same issues today. The results of that interaction on several key areas are then evaluated and possible ways forward are advanced in the general conclusion.

This dissertation aims to be a further contribution to that interdisciplinary conversation. Beyond the series of critiques and assessments that it offers, its main added value is to be found in three areas: (i) that it presents the broad parameters of Pauline research from Baur to Dunn and beyond on both the Christian and Jewish sides; (ii) that it offers its own perspective on Paul in dialogue with these findings; and (iii) that it attempts to further define and analyse what is meant by the term supersessionism while presenting various options for how to address it.

Ultimately, though, this work does not seek to provide solid homogeneous answers to difficult questions, but rather, in dialogue with many other voices, it endeavours to map out ways forward by highlighting alternative viewpoints. Viewpoints that, like sign posts on a long and dangerous journey, point towards roads less travelled. It will then be for the coming generations to say whether those roads are actually worth following or not.

The following pages promise reward for the attentive reader. Though countless volumes have been written on Paul and aspects of his theology, none has undertaken to give such an outline and evaluation of the broad contours of Pauline studies to the degree here covered; none has ever compared and contrasted those findings with contemporary Jewish-Christian dialogue on several key issues, and none has analysed the results and then presented possible ways forward for the benefit of both disciplines. This dissertation is thus unique in its approach and highly relevant for both Pauline research and for those engaged in interfaith dialogue between Christians and Jews. I therefore invite the reader to travel with us, one page at a time, as we explore Paul, the Jews and the God of Israel, from the apostle’s world to ours

 

[James Clarkston]

That Paul was a Jewish theologian, there was no such thing as Christianity, no Christians in Paul's letters.

Really? Then why did Paul say God had sent him to the gentiles?

Sorry, I'm not seeing it, although it is true He ministered to churches that were mostly Jewish congregations.

Funny, I ran across another board that claims to be Messianic that absolutely rejects ALL things written by Paul and claims he was of the devil, and blah, blah, blah...as though God isn't powerful enough to control what went in to His authorized canon.

 

[yedida]

And people think I'm a babbling idiot.
Acts 11:26
and when he found him, he brought him to Antioch. So for a whole year Barnabas and Saul met with the church and taught great numbers of people. The disciples were called Christians first at Antioch.

Acts 26:28
Then Agrippa said to Paul, “Do you think that in such a short time you can persuade me to be a Christian?”

No, Mike, what he said is true. You'll not find the term christianity in the letters nor the title christian in the letters. In acts, yes, but only in terms of the believers being called christians, but not in the context of a different (as of yet) religion. That came later from rome and what they did with Paul's teachings. At the time of the writing of acts and Paul's letters, it was still very much a Judaism.

 

[yedida]

A misunderstanding of Galatians and Rabbi Sha'ul have long been utilized by Christians as proof texts when arguing against Messianic Judaism. This is why efforts to undo this misunderstanding are so important

b'Shalom {iPod touch w/CF app}

I have a feeling that those arguers wouldn't read anything that "undid" their stance anyway. They'd no longer have any excuse for not walking Torah, which is what they want. Just my opinion.

 

[yedida]

Wow, two camps. That's a lot to digest for this old Baptist, ex Catholic, ex Episcopalian and a few other denominations as well. This gives me a lot to think about but I have been through so many things I am fairly open minded about a lot of things others might not consider. You've written a lot for me to consider. I wish your husband's book was also in audio. Because of a confluence of illnesses and currently migraines certain cognitive functions like reading are very difficult for me if not impossible. I can shoot off a short post or read that but even when they get too long I'm having difficulty. Yet, life without difficulty is not life. We all have that. Shalom Sister.

I'm 100% gentile but completely agree with Henaynei. There are 2 camps and I'm of the camp that sees Messianic Judaism as a Judaism. I do not consider myself christian, never use the term "christ" (though I will at times, when necessary, use the term Jesus). The only thing I have in common with christianity is I trust in Yeshua for my eternal being, I can't think of anything else that's common at all. Ah, due to the very small font, I cannot use the CJB, so I do use either a NKJV, NASB, or NIV christian NT, but carry a second volume Tanakh

 

[yedida]

The quote I made was from a Jewish New Testament University Professor. Would love to hear some feedback on it.

My only thought you just killed. Didn't realize it was a quote, so you can guess what my thoughts had been, hehehe. (Just now reading the thread for the first time.)

 

[Lulav]

My only thought you just killed. Didn't realize it was a quote, so you can guess what my thoughts had been, hehehe. (Just now reading the thread for the first time.)

I only bumped it up because I found this book for free on Amazon and thought some here might be interested.


Justifying Paul Among Jews and Christians? A Critical Investigation of the New Perspective on Paul in Light of Jewish-Christian Dialogue


Product Description

The purpose of this interdisciplinary dissertation is to study and analyse the New Perspective on Paul and its aftermath from the angle of Jewish-Christian relations. Its central aim is to evaluate the underlying premises at play in Pauline interpretations with special reference to the issue of supersessionism (the question of whether the Church has replaced or is considered inherently superior to Israel), and then compare the results of that research with how contemporary Jewish-Christian dialoguers are responding to those same issues today. The results of that interaction on several key areas are then evaluated and possible ways forward are advanced in the general conclusion.

This dissertation aims to be a further contribution to that interdisciplinary conversation. Beyond the series of critiques and assessments that it offers, its main added value is to be found in three areas: (i) that it presents the broad parameters of Pauline research from Baur to Dunn and beyond on both the Christian and Jewish sides; (ii) that it offers its own perspective on Paul in dialogue with these findings; and (iii) that it attempts to further define and analyse what is meant by the term supersessionism while presenting various options for how to address it.

Ultimately, though, this work does not seek to provide solid homogeneous answers to difficult questions, but rather, in dialogue with many other voices, it endeavours to map out ways forward by highlighting alternative viewpoints. Viewpoints that, like sign posts on a long and dangerous journey, point towards roads less travelled. It will then be for the coming generations to say whether those roads are actually worth following or not.

The following pages promise reward for the attentive reader. Though countless volumes have been written on Paul and aspects of his theology, none has undertaken to give such an outline and evaluation of the broad contours of Pauline studies to the degree here covered; none has ever compared and contrasted those findings with contemporary Jewish-Christian dialogue on several key issues, and none has analysed the results and then presented possible ways forward for the benefit of both disciplines. This dissertation is thus unique in its approach and highly relevant for both Pauline research and for those engaged in interfaith dialogue between Christians and Jews. I therefore invite the reader to travel with us, one page at a time, as we explore Paul, the Jews and the God of Israel, from the apostle’s world to ours

 

[someguy14]

I am glad that God has no respect of persons, but in righteousness.