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New Perspective on Paul.

Discussion in 'Messianic Judaism' started by Messianic Jewboy, Mar 19, 2012.

  1. Messianic Jewboy

    Messianic Jewboy Senior Veteran

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    I posted in another thread about the New Perspective on Paul. It's a convincing perspective.

    A Summary of the New Perspective on Paul | The Paul Page

    I just got done watching this video that's in line somewhat with the New Perspective called 'Paul Jewish theologian . It's from Yale. The teacher makes an interesting remark at the end. That Paul was a Jewish theologian, there was no such thing as Christianity, no Christians in Paul's letters. I suggest watching strongly suggest watching it, it's a must to start understanding Paul. You may not agree with some specifics but the moral of the story it helps to shed a light on a much better perspective on Paul, a Jewish Theologian and Torah observant. You don't necessarily have to watch it you can listen to it.

    16. Paul as Jewish Theologian - YouTube
     
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  2. mishkan

    mishkan There's room for YOU in the Mishkan! Supporter

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    I'm confused. What makes you think this represents the NPP?

    The "New Perspective on Paul" recognizes the Jewish identity and training of Paul, as well as re-evaluating the original message of the first believers in terms of King and Kingdom... of Israel.

    This guy sounds like a standard traditional Christian, making Paul into an anti-Torah contrarian, a loose cannon, who cared nothing for the original sheliachim.

    Did I miss something?
     
  3. Messianic Jewboy

    Messianic Jewboy Senior Veteran

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    I said sort of represents NPP. I don't see how he made Paul into anti Torah. He said in the video that it appears Paul was digging himself deeper but then Paul would end with the conclusion such as Romans 3:31.
     
  4. GuardianShua

    GuardianShua Well-Known Member

    +266
    And people think I'm a babbling idiot.
    Acts 11:26
    and when he found him, he brought him to Antioch. So for a whole year Barnabas and Saul met with the church and taught great numbers of people. The disciples were called Christians first at Antioch.

    Acts 26:28
    Then Agrippa said to Paul, “Do you think that in such a short time you can persuade me to be a Christian
     
  5. Lulav

    Lulav Older than ZIP Codes Supporter

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    After hundreds and hundreds of years, one should ask why do we need a 'New perspective on Paul'?

    Have hundreds of thousands of Christian theologians been wrong?

    And let's not forget Jews too.

     
  6. mishkan

    mishkan There's room for YOU in the Mishkan! Supporter

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    Fair enough. Maybe I'm just being overly critical, but I didn't see any NPP at all.

    As I heard/saw it, his interpretation of Galatians was straight down the standard anti-Torah path. The fact that he tried to flip the script at the end struck me as simply disingenuous, refusing to allow the very conclusion towards which he had been building for the previous 30 or 40 minutes.

    I'm willing to be persuaded otherwise. Just sharing my perceptions, here.
     
  7. Messianic Jewboy

    Messianic Jewboy Senior Veteran

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    I just got done listening to an interview with Wright. He's pretty good speaker, kept me interested.

    Here's a quote in explaining the Gospel; I could try taking a Pauline angle. When Paul talks about “the gospel,” he means “the good news that the crucified and risen Jesus is the Messiah of Israel and therefore the Lord of the world.” Now, that’s about as brief as you can do it.



    NT Wright on Justification & New Perspective on Paul – Mp3 Interview | Said at Southern
     
  8. mishkan

    mishkan There's room for YOU in the Mishkan! Supporter

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    Yep. He's a great speaker, and does a wonderful job of putting us back in the original setting.

    My favorite expression he uses is, "It may mean more than that, but it certainly doesn't mean any less."
     
  9. yonah_mishael

    yonah_mishael הֱיֵה קודם כל בן אדם

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    Very good and accurate look at it (so far). I'm in minute 20 now. Very much enjoying this. Thanks for posting it.
     
  10. Messianic Jewboy

    Messianic Jewboy Senior Veteran

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    Yeah I thought it was good, in you tube when I was looking of Wright this came up. The title interest me. Interesting how he goes to Romans to defend Paul. A lot of theologians have said Galatians was his 1st epistle and that his view changed somewhat.

    That Wright video I posted is better. You can also read the transcript.
     
  11. Steve Petersen

    Steve Petersen Senior Veteran

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    I prefer Nanos' take on Galatians, with a few minor tweaks.

    Paul needs to be read alongside Josephus, Philo and the Mishnah. This throws Acts and the Pauline epistles into much clearer perspective, the stage upon which the actors play.
     
  12. ati

    ati Newbie

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    The OP video aside, I'm interested in NPP and reconciling Paul with the Gospels and the writings of the disciples. The link for The WildBranch Ministry seems like a great source. Any more great links/books as I work toward a grand unified understanding of the Scriptures?
     
  13. Messianic Jewboy

    Messianic Jewboy Senior Veteran

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    Yes I believe the NPP is heading in the right direction.

    Here's a video with Mark Nanos;

    Paul And the Jewish Tradition - YouTube
     
  14. Henaynei

    Henaynei Sh'ma Yisrael, Adonai Echud! Al pi Adonai...

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    As I mentioned in another thread where this came up. My DH and I have been teaching on this (NOT what's in the video) for a couple of decades.

    He has written a book that you may find informative and insightful.

    Galatians
    Click here to go to the web site and mosey around. Scroll around, all the books were written by him.

    b'Shalom {iPod touch w/CF app}
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2012
  15. Chaplain David

    Chaplain David CF Chaplain Staff Member Chaplain Supporter Recovery Team

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    Paul was a self-proclaimed Apostle of Jesus Christ. If that does not make Him a Christian I do not know what would. So I will ask the question, what would?

    Yet, I want to watch this video. I am sure it is very interesting and certainly made by a highly educated and intelligent individual. Shalom.
     
  16. Henaynei

    Henaynei Sh'ma Yisrael, Adonai Echud! Al pi Adonai...

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    :) Rabbi Sha'ul was a quintessential Messianic Jew up to the day he was killed, up to and including keeping the feasts and festivals, taking the Nazarite vow for a period and following both the written Law and the oral Law, including making sacrifices in the Temple.

    b'Shalom {iPod touch w/CF app}
     
  17. Steve Petersen

    Steve Petersen Senior Veteran

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    I see 'US Army Retired' in your signature line.

    Spend any time in Germany between '83 and '86?

    I was with HHC, 3rd SUPCOM back then. Frankfurt and Wiesbaden. Worked for the SGS then the IG.
     
  18. Henaynei

    Henaynei Sh'ma Yisrael, Adonai Echud! Al pi Adonai...

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    A misunderstanding of Galatians and Rabbi Sha'ul have long been utilized by Christians as proof texts when arguing against Messianic Judaism. This is why efforts to undo this misunderstanding are so important :)

    b'Shalom {iPod touch w/CF app}
     
  19. Henaynei

    Henaynei Sh'ma Yisrael, Adonai Echud! Al pi Adonai...

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    sacerdote, I can't see sig lines on my iPod :(

    Steve and sacerdote,
    Please permit me the honor of Thanking you both for your service to our country and for the cost you and your families paid to ensure mine stay safe and free. :hug:

    b'Shalom {iPod touch w/CF app}
     
  20. Chaplain David

    Chaplain David CF Chaplain Staff Member Chaplain Supporter Recovery Team

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    I understand your use of Hebrew in the Apostle Paul's title and name. However I do not know if he was a Messianic Jew or not. Perhaps after more experience and study I can determine that. But my question had to do with Paul stating He was an Apostle of Jesus Christ and would that not make him a Christian? Also, are Messianic Jews also not Christians? I have been told that MJ is a branch of Christianity. But isn't the head designation Christian? Aren't all branches and denominations of Christianity including MJ Christian? These are questions that you, other Messianic Jews plus my own training and experience are causing to surface. Your answering them on face value, and knowing they are coming from as unbiased a heart as I can have are extremely helpful to me.
     
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