Is belief enough to be saved?

[someguy14]

The law is against those that are against God.

 

[Whisper of Hope]

The law is against those that are against God.

1 Timothy 1:8-11: "8 But we know that the law is good if one uses it lawfully, 9 knowing this: that the law is not made for a righteous person, but for the lawless and insubordinate, for the ungodly and for sinners, for the unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, 10 for fornicators, for sodomites, for kidnappers, for liars, for perjurers, and if there is any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine, 11 according to the glorious gospel of the blessed God which was committed to my trust."

 

[squint]

1 Timothy 1:8-11: "8 But we know that the law is good if one uses it lawfully, 9 knowing this: that the law is not made for a righteous person, but for the lawless and insubordinate, for the ungodly and for sinners, for the unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, 10 for fornicators, for sodomites, for kidnappers, for liars, for perjurers, and if there is any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine, 11 according to the glorious gospel of the blessed God which was committed to my trust."

Since 'all have sin' and sin is lawlessness, the math on this matter is cut and dried, even for believers.

Though many try to fancy dance their way past this fact.

s

 

[B-74]

Since 'all have sin' and sin is lawlessness, the math on this matter is cut and dried, even for believers.

Though many try to fancy dance their way past this fact.

s

I agree. That's the way i see it too.

If we break any law then that law is against us until we repent and abstain from that sin. We cannot be a lawless child of God. We must submit to Gods will.

God is patient with us, if we are honest with God and tell him that we struggle He will help. We need to try, we need patience and need to pray and wait on Him.

Its not a matter of letting the law condemn us, God doesn't condemn us, its just a matter of being honest with God and admitting our faults, and knowing we must submit to His will.

 

[Whisper of Hope]

Since 'all have sin' and sin is lawlessness, the math on this matter is cut and dried, even for believers.

Though many try to fancy dance their way past this fact.

s

Galatians 5:4: "You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace."

Salvation belongs to the Lord (Psalms 3:8; Revelation 7:10) and He provided only one way for us to be saved and that is through His Son, Jesus Christ (John 14:6; Acts 4:12). We cannot earn or merit our salvation by our own filthy ragged acts of righteousness (Isaiah 64:6). Any sacrifice we make to God, in an attempt to appease Him or atone for our own sins, would be detestable and an abomination to Him (Proverbs 15:8; Proverbs 21:27). Furthermore, Scripture is very clear that we are not saved by our works, but by the grace of God through faith in Jesus Christ, (John 1:12-13; 3:16-18; 3:36; 4:14; 5:24; 6:26-27; 6:35-40; 6:47-51; 6:54; 10:27-29; 11:25-26; 12:44-46; 17:1-5; Romans 3:16-18; 21-26; 4:2-6; 5:1-11; 6:22-23; 8:1; 9:31-33; 10:9-10; 1 Corinthians 1:4-9; 2 Corinthians 5:17-19; Ephesians 1:13-14; 2:4-10; Colossians 1:13-14; 2:10; Galatians 2:16; 2:21; 3:4; Titus 1:2; 3:4-7; 1 John 5:9-13; 5:20), which is in accordance with the riches of His grace (Ephesians 1:7-8).

Jesus' sacrifice on the cross was sufficient enough to atone for our sins (Romans 3:25; Romans 5:8-9; Hebrews 7:27; 1 Peter 1:18-19; 1 John 2:2; 1 John 4:10), because His suffering and death appeased God's wrath against sin (Isaiah 53:4-6; Romans 3:24-26; 11:6; Hebrews 2:17; 9:26; 10:10-18; 1 Peter 2:24). He bore our sins and nailed them to the cross, once and for all (Colossians 2:14; 1 Peter 2:24; 1 Peter 3:18). It is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes (Romans 1:16-17), and we will be justified by our faith in Jesus Christ (Romans 3:21-26; 5:1-11). We are no longer under God's wrath (John 3:18; John 3:36; Romans 1:18-32). And there is no condemnation for those who are in Jesus Christ (Romans 8:1). God no longer appoints us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ (1 Thessalonians 5:9-10). (the first two paragraphs I excerpted from my post #327)

Romans 3:21-26: "21 But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. 22 This righteousness is given through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile, 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and all are justified freely by His grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. 25 God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement through the shedding of His blood—to be received by faith. He did this to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance He had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished— 26 He did it to demonstrate His righteousness at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus."

Romans 5:1-2: "1 Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, 2 through whom we have gained access by faith into this grace in which we now stand. And we boast in the hope of the glory of God."

Romans 10:9-10: "9 If you declare with your mouth, 'Jesus is Lord,' and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved."

Ephesians 1:7-10: "7 In Him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God’s grace 8 that He lavished on us. With all wisdom and understanding, 9 He made known to us the mystery of His will according to His good pleasure, which He purposed in Christ, 10 to be put into effect when the times reach their fulfillment—to bring unity to all things in heaven and on earth under Christ."

Galatians 2:19-20: "19 For I through the law died to the law that I might live to God. 20 I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me. 21 I do not set aside the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died in vain.”

Galatians 3:1-9: "1 O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you that you should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed among you as crucified? 2 This only I want to learn from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3 Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh? 4 Have you suffered so many things in vain—if indeed it was in vain? 5 Therefore He who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you, does He do it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?— 6 just as Abraham “believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” 7 Therefore know that only those who are of faith are sons of Abraham. 8 And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel to Abraham beforehand, saying, “In you all the nations shall be blessed.” 9 So then those who are of faith are blessed with believing Abraham."

Galatians 3:10-14: "10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them.” 11 But that no one is justified by the law in the sight of God is evident, for “the just shall live by faith.” 12 Yet the law is not of faith, but “the man who does them shall live by them.” 13 Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree&#8221, 14 that the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

Galatians 3:19-25: "19 What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator. 20 Now a mediator does not mediate for one only, but God is one. 21 Is the law then against the promises of God? Certainly not! For if there had been a law given which could have given life, truly righteousness would have been by the law. 22 But the Scripture has confined all under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. 23 But before faith came, we were kept under guard by the law, kept for the faith which would afterward be revealed. 24 Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor."

Galatians 5:1-6: "1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage. 2 Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing. 3 And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law. 4 You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace. 5 For we through the Spirit eagerly wait for the hope of righteousness by faith. 6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but faith working through love."

Titus 3:4-7: " 4 But when the kindness and the love of God our Savior toward man appeared, 5 not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, 6 whom He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 that having been justified by His grace we should become heirs according to the hope of eternal life."

1 Thessalonians 5:9-10: "9 For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ, 10 who died for us, that whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with Him."

 

[Whisper of Hope]

Are we having a misunderstanding here? Scripture is very clear that we are not justified by keeping the Law of God.

1 Corinthians 1:30-31: "30 But of Him you are in Christ Jesus, who became for us wisdom from God—and righteousness and sanctification and redemption— 31 that, as it is written, “He who glories, let him glory in the Lord.”

 

[squint]

scripture only

While I can appreciate you citing massive amounts of scripture if the result you are trying to claim in such citings is that you have no sin, what can I say other than that effort it is an attempt to dodge the question with a truthful answer.

 

[Whisper of Hope]

While I can appreciate you citing massive amounts of scripture if the result you are trying to claim in such citings is that you have no sin, what can I say other than that effort it is an attempt to dodge the question with a truthful answer.

I never once said I was without sin (1 John 1:8-10). I said that we are not justified for keeping the Law of God or justified by our works, but by the grace of God through faith in Jesus Christ.

 

[squint]

What? I'm sorry, but your posts are somewhat incoherent. I never once said I was without sin. I said that we are not justified for keeping the Law of God or justified by our works, but by the grace of God through faith in Jesus Christ.

Well, that's a two time dodge.

The fact is a believer saying they 'have no sin' is by definition 'not in Truth.'

So these matters are not always just a matter of just belief, but of speaking 'truthfully and honestly.'

No one who speaks dishonestly can really claim to be a believer 'in Truth.'

s

 

[B-74]

Galatians 5:4: "You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace."


No one wishes to be justified by the law, that verse is for those who rejected Christ and were teaching circumcision as a means of salvation, its not relevant to us. Everyone knows they need Christ and His righteousness, even the best of men will fall short, we all need Christ and cannot boast in anything.

This is our reasonable service to God...

Rom 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. 2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

9 Let love be without dissimulation. Abhor that which is evil; cleave to that which is good

 

[B-74]

Jos 24:15 And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.

 

[Whisper of Hope]

Well, that's a two time dodge.

The fact is a believer saying they 'have no sin' is by definition 'not in Truth.'

So these matters are not always just a matter of just belief, but of speaking 'truthfully and honestly.'

No one who speaks dishonestly can really claim to be a believer 'in Truth.'

s

Your posts make no sense whatsoever. What believer said they 'have no sin'? I certainly didn't. You can claim all you want that I'm dodging a question, but until you make yourself clear and concise, then that's what you will get from me. We are not saved by our works or are we justified for keeping the Law of God.

 

[B-74]

Revelation and works.

Re 2:2 I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:

Re 2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

Re 2:9 I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.

Re 2:13 I know thy works, and where thou dwellest, even where Satan's seat is: and thou holdest fast my name, and hast not denied my faith, even in those days wherein Antipas was my faithful martyr, who was slain among you, where Satan dwelleth.

Re 2:19 I know thy works, and charity, and service, and faith, and thy patience, and thy works; and the last to be more than the first.

Re 2:23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.

Re 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

Re 3:1 And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead.

Re 3:2 Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God.

Re 3:8 I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name.

Re 3:15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.

 

[squint]

Your posts make no sense whatsoever. What believer said they 'have no sin'? I certainly didn't.

That was the point. The opening poster asked if belief alone is sufficient.

The observation made is that belief, if spoken dishonestly, can't be belief, as it would be A LIE. What is that 'belief' then but A LIE?

You are welcome to try to say this makes no sense, when it makes sense.

s

 

[Habakk]

If theology was not engaged with spiritual understandings, it would largely be a mix of philosophy and psychology, both of which are now contained within theology. The arena of theology today is infiltrated and even dominated and overlapped by the other fields. Theology has lost it's roots in spiritual matters and has become worldly matters posing as theology.

Theology is much more interesting.

s

Good point, “...But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.”

All doctrine must be spiritually discerned and understood too or else we are just quoting scripture legalistically. God's word is profitable for doctrine not the other way around.

 

[Albion]

That was the point. The opening poster asked if belief alone is sufficient.

The observation made is that belief, if spoken dishonestly, can't be belief, as it would be A LIE. What is that 'belief' then but A LIE?

You are welcome to try to say this makes no sense, when it makes sense.

s

Isn't the question this: can believing in Christ save in itself? The 'belief might be a lie' slant doesn't seem to be relevant to the issue at hand.

 

[Whisper of Hope]

Isn't the question this: can believing in Christ save in itself? The 'belief might be a lie' slant doesn't seem to be relevant to the issue at hand.

Now that makes sense.

 

[B-74]

Isn't the question this: can believing in Christ save in itself? The 'belief might be a lie' slant doesn't seem to be relevant to the issue at hand.

The will of God seems relevant.


Mt 12:50 For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.

 

[squint]

Isn't the question this: can believing in Christ save in itself? The 'belief might be a lie' slant doesn't seem to be relevant to the issue at hand.

Someone could certainly claim to 'believe' but if they believed that Jesus was a little green martian how legit is their belief? etc etc.

s

 

[Albion]

Someone could certainly claim to 'believe' but if they believed that Jesus was a little green martian how legit is their belief? etc etc.

s

Exactly, but some are misled by verses that use the word "belief," thinking it means mere comprehension, not faith.