• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

Question for christians here

ShiningBecky

Love is what matters, not dogma
Jan 4, 2012
305
10
My room :)
✟535.00
Faith
Seeker
Marital Status
Single
You are misinformed, for Jesus is God, and God is Jesus, and He can choose to give His life for another as He so wishes, just as, I hope, you'd give your life for your own child. It is the most awesome sacrifice any one of us could do for the love of another. For one who was in ministry for 10 years, I'd say you need to brush up on your knowledge of the Bible and what it actually states.

Those who debate here and now know what God expects of them and they now have no excuse, except that of their own 'scapegoating'. Mankind very well better own up to his/her own atrocities before pointing the finger at their Creator, who being perfect, all-knowing and love, is just, fair and righteous.

What judge would allow a criminal to go based on the fact that, outside of their atrocity, they were more or less a good person? Would not the judge laugh in his face? No, the judge will put him into prison and in most cases, throw away the key without all the mamby pamby, "Honestly, I'm really a good person, I just had too much to drink and didn't mean to run over and kill that woman and child."

People can say they are 'good', but we are all sinners who deserve the death penalty in contrast to a perfect and holy Creator. When one can be honest enough with themselves in this point, only then can the realize the gist of the Word of God and the need for a Saviour who can clean them of their filth.

My goodness, look at this world without the rose-coloured glasses, you are defending all sorts of wickedness and lies and trying to justify it by blaming the Creator for the freewill of each one of us. The line in the sand has been drawn...pick a side for you cannot worship this world and God at the same time. You know the scriptures.

The creator probably is all those things you describe. Unfortunately, that is not the god of the bible.

Most people aren't as bad as your religion says they are. You only believe people are only evil because that is what you have been taught. If you believe you're a worthless wretch that should burn in hell because Adam ate an apple, that's up to you. But most people would consider that to be an insult and a gross exaggeration of who they are.

You bring up a very interesting point: Okay, you say, "but we are all sinners who deserve the death penalty in contrast to a perfect and holy Creator."

I'm very familiar with this doctrine. It IS christianity and probably the number 1 or 2 reason I reject it as false. Assuming what you say is true, then is suicide wrong? It shouldn't be, since we all deserve to die. It would actually be serving justice if someone did so because "we all deserve to die" right?? Murders should be exalted then!

Is abortion wrong, for the same reasons? How can you blame someone for taking life since living is basically a sin, according to you? And if your god - who is all-powerful you believe - wants humans dead so badly, what is stopping him from doing us all in right now? I welcome it, if your god wants to smite me on the spot!

You are right though, without knocking people to lower than dirt, people don't need a savior and don't need anything to do with jesus or blood appeasements to your god. That is why it's so important to constantly tell people how evil they are.
 
Upvote 0

ShiningBecky

Love is what matters, not dogma
Jan 4, 2012
305
10
My room :)
✟535.00
Faith
Seeker
Marital Status
Single
ShiningBecky,

Hello to you! You say that you are lost and that is the way many people in this world feel. You also state that you were in ministry for 10 years; I would love to hear what that entails.

Also, if that is the case, then if we discuss this am I to base and direct it toward someone who believes in the Bible or do you consider yourself an unbeliever at this time?

I find it hard to understand how an unbeliever can judge, slander and point the finger at One who does not exist in their minds. Are there many Christians who are angry at God…you bet, but that can be reconciled with time, discussion and prayer. It’s one thing not to believe, but to judge and become angry with something one does not believe in is quite the enigma. So, I suppose I am asking if this is just anger that is directed at a God you believe in.

But, let’s talk about something even a struggling Christians or atheist can confirm from today and history past and that is the evil which prevails within much of the human race. And not just those who commit atrocities against other human beings, but even those who commit atrocities against animals.

We can all agree that mankind can be so evil that we can become frightened of them, the mere thought of them can give us nightmares. Look at all the slasher movies and look at all the inventive ways to which human beings can be tortured, mutilated and hated. And look at the people who pay good money to flock to such things. I find that Atheist feel so clever pointing the finger at God who would dare judge such human beings and then lop ‘good people’ in with them.

Ah, but we forget the atrocities of the heart, the tongue and the eyes. Are these not just as bad? Most of the serial killers admit that they spent quite a lot of time just fantasizing about what they wanted to do and it eventually led to them needing to actually commit these fantasies in real life in order to feel ‘peace’; same with child molesters and rapist. Are these innocent people being judged by God? Why does He tell us that just to ‘lust after another…in one’s heart’ is equally bad for us? Because it usually, by the statistical numbers, leads to one acting upon it. Our God is a wise God! Oh, the lustful desires of the madmen in the world, fantasizing their way into action.

How many ‘good people’ lust for the bodies of another, the death and wealth that comes from insurance policies, the failure at jobs, loves or parenthood, the jealousy, rage, envy deep within the heart. How we love to watch another stumble so that we feel better about ourselves. We are evil and if one is honest with themselves they, too, will admit they are evil or have been in thought alone. And to live with the knowledge of ourselves and what we have done even in our thoughts could drive us mad or even to revenge, murder, stealing. Problem is that we'd never know any of this just to look at someone else because it is all done within the heart and mind. On the outside they are such 'good people'. But, God sees it and God knew this about His creation and God gave us a way out and to live in peace. How terrible of Him.

How many of these ‘scum of the earths’ have never gotten caught or ever will? How many people care only about money and walk past a homeless person on the street? How many people flick the channel when the skin and bones children of the world are on the tv? How many people worship flawed human beings on a daily basis because of their beauty or bank account? And how many people choose to worship satan, literally, when his existence proves there must be a God?

People are spiritual creatures as well as flesh and blood and if they do not believe in the Christian God, they will invent one they do want to worship, we see it daily. Of course their own gods will be everything they need with no flaws or demands, right?

People forget who they are defending when they bash their Creator and hating Him does not remove His existence or what He can and will do for you despite the damning evidence of evil that resides within each of us.

God gave us the rules and the choice to love Him and the world wants nothing to do with Him. He stands back and allows mankind to pave their own way, their own rules and futures and look what it has gotten us. The evil in this world would never allow any type of utopia.

And as for torture, pain and wanting it for all the world, as you accuse God, I often wonder that if men could give such a torturous verdict against other men and women, would they use it? I have to answer honestly, yes, they would. Men would torture forever if they could and they’d televise it for pure profit to boot! And you know what else too; the people of this world would pay to see it. They'd probably have live cams presenting the slow, ongoing tortuous acts and betting as they did. They'd link to it, post it and bootleg it. Tell me it wouldn't happen!

You said, ‘those who live in glass houses…’, so what about you Becky; how do you rate in the big scheme of things??? Are you a sinner? Are you going to die one day? And if you stand before the most glorious Creator in the end, what will you say to Him?

Because you can believe you will disappear out of existence, that is your right, but what if you are wrong? He only asks that you simply believe, love Him and others; is that really too much to ask?

It sounds like you're trying to use the old christian tactic of scaring people into believing. I'm sure you know that does not work by now with most normal people.

If the creator is as loving as I think, then I have nothing to worry about.

I know where you're coming from since I used to say similar things (except more loving) but I have no reason to believe your bible, your small god or your threats. I appreciate your concern but I think you should worry more for your self.

If anyone knows what happens when you die, I'm open to it, but just quoting bible verses doesn't convince me at this stage.
 
Upvote 0

Jonathan95

Veteran
Sep 13, 2011
2,132
78
29
Sweden
✟26,977.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
It sounds like you're trying to use the old christian tactic of scaring people into believing. I'm sure you know that does not work by now with most normal people.

If the creator is as loving as I think, then I have nothing to worry about.

I know where you're coming from since I used to say similar things (except more loving) but I have no reason to believe your bible, your small god or your threats. I appreciate your concern but I think you should worry more for your self.

If anyone knows what happens when you die, I'm open to it, but just quoting bible verses doesn't convince me at this stage.

Don't you believe the bible? The Word of God.

What do you mean? Watch videos of people who have been to hell, and heaven and NDEs, and read testimonies. You can find many here:

Divine Revelations: Face to Face encounters with Jesus Christ
 
Upvote 0

ShiningBecky

Love is what matters, not dogma
Jan 4, 2012
305
10
My room :)
✟535.00
Faith
Seeker
Marital Status
Single
Don't you believe the bible? The Word of God.

What do you mean? Watch videos of people who have been to hell, and heaven and NDEs, and read testimonies. You can find many here:

Divine Revelations: Face to Face encounters with Jesus Christ

I used to, Jonathan, but there's too many contradictions, cruelties and things that do not reflect a God of love. Would a God of love order the deaths of newborns? Would a God of love order slavery and animal sacrifices to appease "his wrath?" Would a God of love be so angry that he had to send down his son / himself to kill so that he doesn't send us to hell forever? None of it adds up when I stop and ask these questions.

The bible was written, edited, changed and altered many times through history and we know this because there are no originals to read. Some of the stories have been disproven by scholars, scientists and archeologists. For instance Moses could not have written anything since he lived before the hebrew alphabet existed!! But you won't hear that in any church! Most christians just blindly believe whatever their pastor tells them and they never look at outside sources (cuz they're all of the devil!) so they don't ask these questions because they're scared to. No one wants to go to hell, so it's better not to ask period. And what about all the other gospels the church rejected in the 4th century C.E.? The church hid them because they did not agree with their doctrines they voted on. But the Nag Hammadi library has recently shown that there were many other gospels written about Jesus besides the 4 the church decided to keep.

There could be a hell. I don't think it's fire and brimstone though. Probably a state of darkness, loneliness or whatever. I don't think a "God of love" would send anybody there, despite what your religion says. I think God loves everyone, regardless of their religious beliefs. :)
 
Upvote 0

Jonathan95

Veteran
Sep 13, 2011
2,132
78
29
Sweden
✟26,977.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
I don't believe what "culture" tells me. I'm going by what churches teach and what the bible and message of christianity say.

So, you're saying "a lot of christians" are lying about God? If this faith is "the truth" then why are these some many contradictory views of who or what god is, how to get to him, what he is like, etc???

Culture says "god loves everybody" and he would never send anyone to hell. It denies there even is a hell, so I don't know what culture you are referring to. It's the christian who says all roads lead to hell except jesus (usually).

You won't end up good by leaving Jesus. Just because he loves everybody, doesn't mean no one can and will go to hell, because people chose to go there. God is JUST.

God is love:

1 John 4:8
He who does not love has not become acquainted with God [does not and never did know Him], for God is love.
1 John 4:7-9 (in Context)

Yes Jesus is the only way:

John 10:1
I ASSURE you, most solemnly I tell you, he who does not enter by the door into the sheepfold, but climbs up some other way (elsewhere, from some other quarter) is a thief and a robber.

John 14:6
Jesus said to him, I am the Way and the Truth and the Life; no one comes to the Father except by (through) Me.
John 14:5-7 (in Context)
 
Upvote 0

ShiningBecky

Love is what matters, not dogma
Jan 4, 2012
305
10
My room :)
✟535.00
Faith
Seeker
Marital Status
Single
You won't end up good by leaving Jesus. Just because he loves everybody, doesn't mean no one can and will go to hell, because people chose to go there. God is JUST.

God is love:

1 John 4:8
He who does not love has not become acquainted with God [does not and never did know Him], for God is love.
1 John 4:7-9 (in Context)

Yes Jesus is the only way:

John 10:1
I ASSURE you, most solemnly I tell you, he who does not enter by the door into the sheepfold, but climbs up some other way (elsewhere, from some other quarter) is a thief and a robber.

John 14:6
Jesus said to him, I am the Way and the Truth and the Life; no one comes to the Father except by (through) Me.
John 14:5-7 (in Context)

Again with the death threats. That's not very nice you know. This is why nobody listens to christians.

Listen, if you think it's "justice" to send anyone to hell, let alone a good person who earnestly is seeking after the truth and God, then I don't think your god is worthy of worship but is a jerk.

There's nothing loving in anything you said. It's so ironic that you quote "love" but only offer hate instead. :( Talk about hypocrisy of the highest order!!
 
Upvote 0

Jonathan95

Veteran
Sep 13, 2011
2,132
78
29
Sweden
✟26,977.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
I used to, Jonathan, but there's too many contradictions, cruelties and things that do not reflect a God of love. Would a God of love order the deaths of newborns? Would a God of love order slavery and animal sacrifices to appease "his wrath?" Would a God of love be so angry that he had to send down his son / himself to kill so that he doesn't send us to hell forever? None of it adds up when I stop and ask these questions.


There could be a hell. I don't think it's fire and brimstone though. Probably a state of darkness, loneliness or whatever. I don't think a "God of love" would send anybody there, despite what your religion says. I think God loves everyone, regardless of their religious beliefs. :)
Well that's a graven image then. He still loves everyone, Jesus is weeping over the lost ones. Remember that God is far more smarter than us and so, we shouldn't try to comprehend his plans like that, I believe. Just ends up in confusion. He's far beyond our comprehension. Didn't God make us because he wanted people to love him, worship him and so, in a way that angels couldn't?

What has happened to you (leaving Jesus) is the work of Satan I believe, demons of delusion ec, he's trying to set you up against God, and rebel. Just like he has tried many times on me.
 
Upvote 0

ShiningBecky

Love is what matters, not dogma
Jan 4, 2012
305
10
My room :)
✟535.00
Faith
Seeker
Marital Status
Single
Well that's a graven image then. He still loves everyone, Jesus is weeping over the lost ones. Remember that God is far more smarter than us and so, we shouldn't try to comprehend his plans like that, I believe. Just ends up in confusion. He's far beyond our comprehension. Didn't God make us because he wanted people to love him, worship him and so, in a way that angels couldn't?

What has happened to you (leaving Jesus) is the work of Satan I believe, demons of delusion ec, he's trying to set you up against God, and rebel. Just like he has tried many times on me.

What's a graven image?

I don't have much to say about Jesus. I don't know enough about him as a person to say one way or the other. I have no intent of rebelling against God. How could anyone "rebel" against God anyway? Doesn't possible to me......
 
Upvote 0

Jonathan95

Veteran
Sep 13, 2011
2,132
78
29
Sweden
✟26,977.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Again with the death threats. That's not very nice you know. This is why nobody listens to christians.

Listen, if you think it's "justice" to send anyone to hell, let alone a good person who earnestly is seeking after the truth and God, then I don't think your god is worthy of worship but is a jerk.

There's nothing loving in anything you said. It's so ironic that you quote "love" but only offer hate instead. :( Talk about hypocrisy of the highest order!!

That is not to offer hate. I told you the truth, that you will not have life without Jesus. Life is following Jesus, his ways etc! He is the way. You can't find better life/love than in Jesus!
 
Upvote 0

Jonathan95

Veteran
Sep 13, 2011
2,132
78
29
Sweden
✟26,977.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
What's a graven image?

I don't have much to say about Jesus. I don't know enough about him as a person to say one way or the other. I have no intent of rebelling against God. How could anyone "rebel" against God anyway? Doesn't possible to me......

A graven image:

To make a God that suits oneself. Is your God the One revealed in Holy Scripture? If not, then you have made your own God to suit yourself.

Source: Are you good enough to go to Heaven? The Ten Commandments and you. • ChristianAnswers.Net

Rebelling:

Departing for him, is one of the things.

Source: Bible Topics: Rebellion against God
 
Upvote 0

ebia

Senior Contributor
Jul 6, 2004
41,711
2,142
A very long way away. Sometimes even further.
✟54,775.00
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
Politics
AU-Greens
ShiningBecky said:
What's a graven image?

I don't have much to say about Jesus. I don't know enough about him as a person to say one way or the other.
But it's in Jesus that see God most clearly.

If you want to know what God is like, then look at him. Not the way he is portrayed by any one group of Christians, or even me.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

ebia

Senior Contributor
Jul 6, 2004
41,711
2,142
A very long way away. Sometimes even further.
✟54,775.00
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
Politics
AU-Greens
ShiningBecky said:
So God doesn't exist everywhere? That's not what I was taught.

What you just described is not "forgiveness" though. It is vicarious atonement or scapegoating. God punishes an entirely innocent person (supposedly) to acquit the guilty. Even though the old testament says in Exodus, God does not by any means clear the guilty. How do you explain these discrepancies?

I already "received" him. Then I woke up and realized I don't want to be with a god like the one christianity offers.

You do realise that there is more than one model out there for understanding Jesus death.

When Jesus wanted to explain what was about to happen he didn't give a theoretical model at all - he gave them a meal.
 
Upvote 0

razeontherock

Well-Known Member
May 24, 2010
26,546
1,480
WI
✟35,597.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
You have nice ideas, but you're just one man. You don't represent what your religion or faith teaches.

And the Bible declares that G-d always has a "remnant," and also compares that to the tithe. IOW, we should expect that at any given time, 90% are WRONG. This has no bearing on Truth. And as it happens, I DO think the same as the Church that goes back to the Apostles, (w/o all the killing people along the way) although I came up with it independently. (Lots of others have done this, too)

So no, you can't write me off as "just one man." OTOH, when did the variety of Evangelical belief you're currently grieving start? 1950?

Most christians I have met say that the only way to become a child of god (through adoption) is through faith in Jesus Christ's death, etc. By nature, we're children of wrath and disobedience, your bible declares, doesn't it?

This does NOT equate to what you said previously along these lines that I responded to; something about Jews being "of satan," etc
 
Upvote 0

razeontherock

Well-Known Member
May 24, 2010
26,546
1,480
WI
✟35,597.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Well the problem is it doesn't line up with god's own character, even in the bible.

Where does it say that? "it's God's own story about himself."

That's just your interpretation.

There is no other way to understand the Parable of the Prodigal Son. Not only does Jesus make it clear, much greater depth comes from understanding ANE culture than readily appears in English.
 
Upvote 0

ebia

Senior Contributor
Jul 6, 2004
41,711
2,142
A very long way away. Sometimes even further.
✟54,775.00
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
Politics
AU-Greens
razeontherock said:
There is no other way to understand the Parable of the Prodigal Son. Not only does Jesus make it clear, much greater depth comes from understanding ANE culture than readily appears in English.

Absolutely
 
Upvote 0

razeontherock

Well-Known Member
May 24, 2010
26,546
1,480
WI
✟35,597.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
I don't have time to respond to everything now, and that is a good view. But

This was in response to ViaCrucis. And yes, it WAS a very good view! That's because it was presenting ... (wait for it) ... Biblical Christianity.

You immediately reacted positively. Then you went "but ..."

At some point, you could legitimately compare the 2 versions, to see which holds water. It should be clear. Not quick, maybe not easy, but clear. You could copy and paste his post to a Word document, (just click the blue arrow here by where I quoted you, and then like one post before and you're there) otherwise it'll get buried.

I have nothing against Evangelicals; Jesus taught to evangelize.
I have nothing against Methodists; there is a method to approach G-d.
I have nothing against Baptists; Jesus taught to Baptize.

No matter where you go, you still need to look out for the leaven of false teaching. Not only do you currently demonstrate why, but I think everyone here has fallen prey to it to some extent, at one time or another ...
 
Upvote 0

Harry3142

Regular Member
Apr 9, 2006
3,749
259
Ohio
✟27,729.00
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Would you still love God if Jesus did not die for you? Yes or no is fine. :)

Yes. In the Old Testament there is no mention of heaven or hell's existing. The laws and commandments which we find people in the New Testament hoping will gain them eternal life, in the Old Testament were identified as societal laws which enabled a people to form a strong, cohesive society. Even the agreement which God entered into with the Hebrews showed that the laws and commandments were to be seen as societal in nature:

If you pay attention to these laws and are careful to follow them, then the Lord your God will keep his covenant of love with you, as he swore to your forefathers. He will love you and bless you and increase your numbers. He will bless the fruit of your womb, the crops of your land - your grain, new wine and oil - the calves of your herds and the lambs of your flocks in the land that he swore to your forefathers to give you. You will be blessed more than any other people; none of your men or women will be childless, nor any of your livestock without young. The Lord will keep you free from every disease. He will not inflict on you the horrible diseases you knew in Egypt, but he will inflict them on all who hate you. (Deuteronomy 7:12-15,NIV)

That's it; there is the contract which God made with the Hebrew people. It was a very pragmatic agreement, with their loyalty to his laws and commandments being rewarded with an increase in crops and livestock, children to maintain their society's strength, and freedom from the diseases that were present in the nations around them. But there it ended. To them death meant a return to the dust of the earth, rather than its being a means of journeying from this life to another.

Even at the time of the New Testament, those who were strict interpreters of Torah did not believe in an afterlife. Thr Sadducees were among these people. To them death was still a wall, not a doorway. You lived, you died, the end. Many Jews believe this yet today. Their definition of immortality is nothing more than the memory of the person who has died being kept alive through those who knew that person.

But it was Jesus himself who confirmed that there was an afterlife to be attained. The Pharisees taught that it existed, but they also taught that laws and commandments which were originally written as purely societal in nature could now be used, along with the numerous sublaws that they had attached to each of them, in order to earn our way into heaven.

Jesus 'shot down' the theology of making points with God with this teaching:

"Suppose one of you had a servant plowing or looking after the sheep. Would he say to the servant when he comes in from the field, 'Come along now and sit down to eat'? Would he not rather say, 'Prepare my supper, get yourself ready and wait on me while I eat and drink; after that you may eat and drink'? Would he thank the servant because he did what he was told to do? So you also, when you have done everything you were told to do, should say, 'We are unworthy servants; we have only done our duty.' " (The Gospel of St. Luke 17:7-10,NIV)

So at the same time that Jesus confirmed that there was an afterlife to be attained, he also stated quite clearly that our attaining that afterlife depended on God's actions rather than our own. We were to live our lives in accordance with his teachings, but we were only to expect to attain an afterlife through his work successfully completed, rather than our work still in progress. The laws and commandments were still to be seen as purely societal in nature, while it was only through our accepting Jesus' sacrifice that eternal life was attainable.

So eternal life, God's actions, and Jesus' sacrifice are all a 'package deal'. We Christians believe that there is an afterlife because Jesus confirmed that it does exist. At the same time we believe that we can attain that afterlife because of what God has done already on our behalf. This includes the sacrifice of his Son, Jesus Christ, as the perfect expiation of all the sins of those who are willing to accept his sacrifice as benefitting them.
 
Upvote 0

razeontherock

Well-Known Member
May 24, 2010
26,546
1,480
WI
✟35,597.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Wait a minute! There is actually nothing just at all about a judge killing an innocent man in place of a guilty one!

You're right. And this is why concepts like vicarious redemption and penal substitution have their limits, and their opponents.

How about Jesus as burden bearer?
How about Christus Victor?
How 'bout Savior? :)

You can look up terms, but it's the simplicity of the Gospel that has the Power.

Throwing Jesus away like some rag is morally bankrupt and totally irresponsible too!!

Surely you don't think He was "thrown away?"

"And declared [to be] the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead" (Romans 1:4)
 
Upvote 0

razeontherock

Well-Known Member
May 24, 2010
26,546
1,480
WI
✟35,597.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
I used to, Jonathan, but there's too many contradictions, cruelties and things that do not reflect a God of love. Would a God of love order the deaths of newborns? Would a God of love order slavery and animal sacrifices to appease "his wrath?" Would a God of love be so angry that he had to send down his son / himself to kill so that he doesn't send us to hell forever? None of it adds up when I stop and ask these questions.

I think everyone here is glad you're asking these questions, but you should recognize that rather than asking questions, you're making assertions.

The bible was written, edited, changed and altered many times through history and we know this because there are no originals to read. Some of the stories have been disproven by scholars, scientists and archeologists. For instance Moses could not have written anything since he lived before the hebrew alphabet existed!! But you won't hear that in any church! Most christians just blindly believe whatever their pastor tells them and they never look at outside sources

"Most Christians" have no bearing on my Faith, as you have already noticed. We have nothing to fear from any of these questions, and many before us have plumbed their depths. This Ray is on solid Rock. To follow that analogy, you're irritated by some sand in there somewhere uncomfortable. ^_^

We can point you to where the shovel is ...

There could be a hell. I don't think it's fire and brimstone though. Probably a state of darkness, loneliness or whatever. I don't think a "God of love" would send anybody there, despite what your religion says. I think God loves everyone, regardless of their religious beliefs. :)

What do you know of hell, as taught by Jews of Jesus' day? Because He never specified anything different about it. This tells me they had that much right. And it is not Dante's inferno!
 
Upvote 0