Question for christians here

[ebia]

Would you still love God if Jesus did not die for you? Yes or no is fine.

You need to set up the alternative scenario.

A god who isn't acting to put his creation right would not be YHWH.

 

[Faulty]

Scripture states we love God, only because God loved us first, and manifested His love for us by sending His Son into the world to take our sins upon Himself, for our sake.

Jesus taking our penelty upon Himself, the wrath of the Father towards us because of our sin, is the focal point of all history. Those before the cross, looked to its promise and were saved, and now we who look back upon it for it's promise, are also saved. In this we know true love, that a debt we could never pay, was paid for us.

Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God, and whoever loves has been born of God and knows God. Anyone who does not love does not know God, because God is love. In this the love of God was made manifest among us, that God sent his only Son into the world, so that we might live through him. In this is love, not that we have loved God but that he loved us and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.... We love because he first loved us.
1 John 4:7-10, 19
​

 

[elman]

Would you still love God if Jesus did not die for you? Yes or no is fine.

Yes.

 

[elman]

So you would still love God even though he was going to send you to hell forever? Are you being truthful?

God sends no one to hell forever. That is a man made idea--not divine truth.

 

[elman]

But christians say only they are God's children, everyone else is a child of satan.

Also, why would you love someone who does not love you and wants to throw you in hell forever?

Any parent who thought that way toward me would be shunned for eternity because I deserve better from someone who supposedly brought me into the world and claims to "love" me.

No Christians do not say that.

 

[bling]

You could, but why would you want to?

God showed lots of times His willingness to forgive the Jews and individuals like King David.

 

[salida]

In the old testament Jesus didn't die for them and they still loved God. So yes I would maam.

 

[ShiningBecky]

Do you have book chapter and verse for that or is that something spiteful people say to hurt one another?


If you have ever been addicted to drugs or sinned against your parents to the point where they have no other choice but to hold you accountable to your actions maybe then you could see past your own version of righteousness to what has to be done. You are not a good person, none of us are good enough to deserve Heaven.

God above all else is Righteous. Righteousness demands a accountability or atonement for sin. True Love on His part provided you with atonement. Love on your part would have you accept the sacrifice given.

If Jesus never died for us then we would still be seeking atonement through animal sacrifice. Either way atonement is provided.

I think it's John 8 somewhere. Jesus called the Jews the children of satan, and every preacher I know says that refers to all people before faith in Jesus.

I would never follow a belief system that required the death's of innocent animals. If that's what you believe in, you might want to stop, take a step back and reflect on how savage and truly awful that really is! It's sick and almost satanic I think. People who abuse animals are sick in the head.

Any god that needs the bloody death of animals cannot be the Creator God.

I'm glad you see fit to judge whether I'm a good person or not. People in glass houses should not throw stones.

 

[ShiningBecky]

No Christians do not say that.

Yeah they do elman. I have read it with my very own eyes on here and have heard many sermons on those very same things. They're not christians then??

 

[razeontherock]

Jesus called the Jews the children of satan, and every preacher I know says that refers to all people before faith in Jesus.

Wow This is COMPLETELY wrong! Yes get away from that by all means, but do not conflate that with Christianity. (If you wish to pursue what this actually talks about, it's not that difficult)

 

[ShiningBecky]

Wow This is COMPLETELY wrong! Yes get away from that by all means, but do not conflate that with Christianity. (If you wish to pursue what this actually talks about, it's not that difficult)

You have nice ideas, but you're just one man. You don't represent what your religion or faith teaches. You're like a speck of dust in a junkyard (no offense LOL), I mean you may have attractive teachings like "everyone is god's child" or whatever, but that is not what most of christianity says. Most christians I have met say that the only way to become a child of god (through adoption) is through faith in Jesus Christ's death, etc. By nature, we're children of wrath and disobedience, your bible declares, doesn't it?

 

[ebia]

""A certain man had two sons. 12 The younger son said to his father, 'Father, give me my share of the inheritance.' Then the father divided his estate between them. 13 Soon afterward, the younger son gathered everything together and took a trip to a land far away. There, he wasted his wealth through extravagant living." 14 ""When he had used up his resources, a severe food shortage arose in that country and he began to be in need. 15 He hired himself out to one of the citizens of that country, who sent him into his fields to feed pigs. 16 He longed to eat his fill from what the pigs ate, but no one gave him anything. When he came to his senses, he said, 'How many of my father's hired hands have more than enough food, but I'm starving to death! 18 I will get up and go to my father, and say to him, "Father, I have sinned against heaven and against you. 19 I no longer deserve to be called your son. Take me on as one of your hired hands.' 20 So he got up and went to his father." ""While he was still a long way off, his father saw him and was moved with compassion. His father ran to him, hugged him, and kissed him. 21 Then his son said, 'Father, I have sinned against heaven and against you. I no longer deserve to be called your son.' 22 But the father said to his servants, 'Quickly, bring out the best robe and put it on him! Put a ring on his finger and sandals on his feet! 23 Fetch the fattened calf and slaughter it. We must celebrate with feasting 24 because this son of mine was dead and has come back to life! He was lost and is found!' And they began to celebrate." 25 "Now his older son was in the field. Coming in from the field, he approached the house and heard music and dancing. 26 He called one of the servants and asked what was going on. 27 The servant replied, 'Your brother has arrived, and your father has slaughtered the fattened calf because he received his son back safe and sound.' 28 Then the older son was furious and didn't want to enter in, but his father came out and begged him. 29 He answered his father, 'Look, I've served you all these years, and I never disobeyed your instruction. Yet you've never given me as much as a young goat so I could celebrate with my friends. 30 But when this son of yours returned, after gobbling up your estate on prostitutes, you slaughtered the fattened calf for him.' 31 Then his father said, 'Son, you are always with me, and everything I have is yours. 32 But we had to celebrate and be glad because this brother of yours was dead and is alive. He was lost and is found.'"

 

[ShiningBecky]

""A certain man had two sons. 12 The younger son said to his father, 'Father, give me my share of the inheritance.' Then the father divided his estate between them. 13 Soon afterward, the younger son gathered everything together and took a trip to a land far away. There, he wasted his wealth through extravagant living." 14 ""When he had used up his resources, a severe food shortage arose in that country and he began to be in need. 15 He hired himself out to one of the citizens of that country, who sent him into his fields to feed pigs. 16 He longed to eat his fill from what the pigs ate, but no one gave him anything. When he came to his senses, he said, 'How many of my father's hired hands have more than enough food, but I'm starving to death! 18 I will get up and go to my father, and say to him, "Father, I have sinned against heaven and against you. 19 I no longer deserve to be called your son. Take me on as one of your hired hands.' 20 So he got up and went to his father." ""While he was still a long way off, his father saw him and was moved with compassion. His father ran to him, hugged him, and kissed him. 21 Then his son said, 'Father, I have sinned against heaven and against you. I no longer deserve to be called your son.' 22 But the father said to his servants, 'Quickly, bring out the best robe and put it on him! Put a ring on his finger and sandals on his feet! 23 Fetch the fattened calf and slaughter it. We must celebrate with feasting 24 because this son of mine was dead and has come back to life! He was lost and is found!' And they began to celebrate." 25 "Now his older son was in the field. Coming in from the field, he approached the house and heard music and dancing. 26 He called one of the servants and asked what was going on. 27 The servant replied, 'Your brother has arrived, and your father has slaughtered the fattened calf because he received his son back safe and sound.' 28 Then the older son was furious and didn't want to enter in, but his father came out and begged him. 29 He answered his father, 'Look, I've served you all these years, and I never disobeyed your instruction. Yet you've never given me as much as a young goat so I could celebrate with my friends. 30 But when this son of yours returned, after gobbling up your estate on prostitutes, you slaughtered the fattened calf for him.' 31 Then his father said, 'Son, you are always with me, and everything I have is yours. 32 But we had to celebrate and be glad because this brother of yours was dead and is alive. He was lost and is found.'"

The man in that story cannot possibly represent the christian God.

Beautiful story though, advocating true, unconditional love. Thanks for sharing!

 

[ebia]

The man in that story cannot possibly represent the christian God.

Beautiful story though, advocating true, unconditional love. Thanks for sharing!

Why not?

There were people in Jesus world very like the Christians you describe - so sure that they were in and others were out, that they were God's children and others were not,... Very similar people at heart.

Jesus told that story to them to explain why he kept having parties with the one's they were convinced were (in the language you quote) "children of satan".

If you don't think the father in that story is the christian God then Jesus came to show you that he is - that that is exactly what he is like.

 

[ShiningBecky]

Why not?

There were people in Jesus world very like the Christians you describe - so sure that they were in and others were out, that they were God's children and others were not,... Very similar people at heart.

Jesus told that story to them to explain why he kept having parties with the one's they were convinced were (in the language you quote) "children of satan".

If you don't think the father in that story is the christian God then Jesus came to show you that he is - that that is exactly what he is like.

Because the father in the story is nothing like the christian's God. His character is nothing at all like your god's.

The father in the story is loving and kind. He is unconcerned with vengeance, demanding deaths of innocent humans and animals, and cares about his son. This is the opposite of christian teaching.

In christian teaching, man is so bad that god wants to send man to hell, and often does. But to get around this and show mercy to a small portion of the people he created, he sends his own son to die so he won't be mad at us anymore. That's some extreme anger!! wouldn't you say???

The man in the story is not angry, is loving and kind, and is not concerned with punishing or torturing his son. In short, that is not the christian god.

There's also no mention of sin, death, blood sacrifice or atonement or punishment in the story, so we know it is not talking about the christian God. It's just a story.

 

[ebia]

Because the father in the story is nothing like the christian's God. His character is nothing at all like your god's.

the father in the story IS God according to Christ. If it doesn't match what Christians have told you God is like then they have mislead you. Don't take it that what Christisns say is necessarily true to Christ. Remember that the story was told to just such people to say "hey, you're getting it all wrong. Come and join the party". Many still don't get it - they can't see that they are the older brother.

It's just a story.

it's God's own story about himself.

It should be the story every Christian needs to tell regularly to explain why they are showing so much love, compassion and fellowship to all the wrong people.

 

[ShiningBecky]

the father in the story IS God according to Christ. If it doesn't match what Christians have told you God is like then they have mislead you. Don't take it that what Christisns say is necessarily true to Christ. Remember that the story was told to just such people to say "hey, you're getting it all wrong. Come and join the party". Many still don't get it - they can't see that they are the older brother.



it's God's own story about himself.

Well the problem is it doesn't line up with god's own character, even in the bible.

Where does it say that? "it's God's own story about himself."

That's just your interpretation.

 

[ebia]

It's Jesus story. Jesus is God incarnate. Therefore it is by God.
In context, including the society it's delivered in, the father in the story is clearly God.

Therefore it pretty much is by God about himself. Unless Christ isn't God - in which case don't worry about Christianity - or Luke made it up.

 

[ebia]

Well the problem is it doesn't line up with god's own character, even in the bible.

Maybe you're misjudging that.

 

[ShiningBecky]

It's Jesus story. Jesus is God incarnate. Therefore it is by God.
In context, including the society it's delivered in, the father in the story is clearly God.

Therefore it pretty much is by God about himself. Unless Christ isn't God - in which case don't worry about Christianity - or Luke made it up.

That's irrelevant since Jesus is not the father. Jesus is not even in the story, so he is beside the point completely here.

The father in the story does not resemble the god of christian, the father. God in christianity is actually nothing like a good father, which is why christians use legal terms to describe our "relationship" to god. He's a Judge, also the jury and executioner. A father is not a judge (at least it shouldn't be). The courtroom analogy quoted constantly by christians shows God to be a judge - and a very stern one at that. A judge who demands complete and total perfection or he'll send you to hell. So to get around his own made-up rules, he executes his son instead. As long as somebody is killed, he is happy.

In christianity, we basically have god versus god anyway; the father versus jesus. God, the father / judge, is angry and wants to send humanity to hell, but jesus died and opposed this view, now he doesn't, or something? Who can tell the way the story is told.