Question for christians here

[ShiningBecky]

Would you still love God if Jesus did not die for you? Yes or no is fine.

 

[golgotha61]

Would you still love God if Jesus did not die for you? Yes or no is fine.

Yes.

 

[ShiningBecky]

Yes.

So you would still love God even though he was going to send you to hell forever? Are you being truthful?

 

[bling]

The Jews before Christ could Love God and knew very little about Jesus. So I could be like them.

 

[ShiningBecky]

The Jews before Christ could Love God and knew very little about Jesus. So I could be like them.

You could, but why would you want to?

 

[drich0150]

Yes as well.

Why?

Because He loved me enough to create me.

Doesn't every person on the planet have an innate desire to love and be loved by their parents? It's not till much later in life (At least some of us) that we learn to shun our parents. why would you think it is any different with God?

 

[ShiningBecky]

Yes as well.

Why?

Because He loved me enough to create me.

Doesn't every person on the planet have an innate desire to love and be loved by their parents? It's not till much later in life (At least some of us) that we learn to shun our parents. why would you think it is any different with God?

But christians say only they are God's children, everyone else is a child of satan.

Also, why would you love someone who does not love you and wants to throw you in hell forever?

Any parent who thought that way toward me would be shunned for eternity because I deserve better from someone who supposedly brought me into the world and claims to "love" me.

 

[golgotha61]

So you would still love God even though he was going to send you to hell forever? Are you being truthful?

Well now, there is certainly more to your question that was not fully shared. Here then is the scenario that must be in place. If Christ has not come in the first advent, that means we are still living under the Judaic law.

Your question alludes to my knowing of God and His power to judge along with the sacrificial system being in place and perhaps my becoming a Jew. God still blesses and provides even before the advent of Christ, so He is still my provider. Christ is the expression of God's love to me and my obedience is my expression of love for Him, whether the obedience is to obey Judaic law or accept the gift of Christ's sacrifice at His first coming.

Also, if we are still under the law and Christ has yet to come, then God is still dealing with Israel and the Jews nationally. When He dealt with Israel as is demonstrated in the Old Testament, He did not reveal personal judgement. The judgements before Christ were national and not personal. The personal judgement came along with personal salvation when Christ came for the next step of God's revelation as demonstrated in the New Testament.

The idea that we are expected to love God just because He is God is demonstrated in the book of Job. Our love for Him is not in payment or response to what He does or does not do for us, but rather is based on the fact that He is worthy because His is God.

 

[ShiningBecky]

Well now, there is certainly more to your question that was not fully shared. Here then is the scenario that must be in place. If Christ has not come in the first advent, that means we are still living under the Judaic law.

Your question alludes to my knowing of God and His power to judge along with the sacrificial system being in place and perhaps my becoming a Jew. God still blesses and provides even before the advent of Christ, so He is still my provider. Christ is the expression of God's love to me and my obedience is my expression of love for Him, whether the obedience is to obey Judaic law or accept the gift of Christ's sacrifice at His first coming.

Also, if we are still under the law and Christ has yet to come, then God is still dealing with Israel and the Jews nationally. When He dealt with Israel as is demonstrated in the Old Testament, He did not reveal personal judgement. The judgements before Christ were national and not personal. The personal judgement came along with personal salvation when Christ came for the next step of God's revelation as demonstrated in the New Testament.

The idea that we are expected to love God just because He is God is demonstrated in the book of Job. Our love for Him is not in payment or response to what He does or does not do for us, but rather is based on the fact that He is worthy because His is God.

No. The Jewish laws were only given to Israel, not the Gentiles. So you would not even be obligated to follow them in the first place. Rabbis will be quick to correct you on that.

So my question stands: Would you still love God despite the fact that he does not love you and wants you burn in hell?

I wasn't asking if you wanted to become a Jew. That is beside the matter.

Based on your answer, I think you would love God because you feel it's your "duty" (which isn't really love).

 

[golgotha61]

No. The Jewish laws were only given to Israel, not the Gentiles. So you would not even be obligated to follow them in the first place. Rabbis will be quick to correct you on that.

In order for me to know God or who He is I need to be told. This is the purpose of the revelation of God in the Bible. So in order for your question to be answered, I need to know who God is and what He expects of me. This is why, again, if your question is to have a logical answer, I must be a Jew living under the Judaic law or I will not know God at all and your question is irrelevant.

Based on your answer, I think you would love God because you feel it's your "duty" (which isn't really love).

This is your interpretation, not my statement. Have you ever read the book of Job?

 

[ShiningBecky]

In order for me to know God or who He is I need to be told. This is the purpose of the revelation of God in the Bible. So in order for your question to be answered, I need to know who God is and what He expects of me. This is why, again, if your question is to have a logical answer, I must be a Jew living under the Judaic law or I will not know God at all and your question is irrelevant.





This is your interpretation, not my statement. Have you ever read the book of Job?

So God couldn't reveal himself to Gentiles? I thought your god was "all-powerful"?

Why would you love a God who hates you because you're a Gentile, which is what he made you? I'm so lost right now.

Yes. I found Job to be a very depressing and awful book which really hurt my faith at the time. Fortunately as a christian, and even before, I was taught not to take it literally and what the real meaning behind it was, so it never bugged me too much. But as my professor said, "If we look at God in Job, he's an [expletive]." As a christian at the time, I couldn't argue with him either. I knew he was right.

 

[golgotha61]

So God couldn't reveal himself to Gentiles? I thought your god was "all-powerful"?

God revealed Himself first to Israel and then according to His plan to all of us including the gentile. But your question is set in a time before Christ, so in order for a gentile to understand and appreciate who God is in all aspects, the gentile must be privy to and understand the Bible which according to your time line, is the Old Testament.

Why would you love a God who hates you because you're a Gentile, which is what he made you? I'm so lost right now.

God does not hate the gentile. If your question was designed to get responses, you have succeeded but the question is only academic. The truth is Christ did come, did die for all of us, and rose again to complete the promised work.

Yes. I found Job to be a very depressing and awful book which really hurt my faith at the time. Fortunately as a christian, and even before, I was taught not to take it literally and what the real meaning behind it was, so it never bugged me too much. But as my professor said, "If we look at God in Job, he's an [expletive]." As a christian at the time, I couldn't argue with him either. I knew he was right.

Your professor is wrong and probably without the ability to interpret and understand the theology of the book of Job or he would not have made such a foolish statement.

God is just and loving. The proof of this is the fact that Christ did come and sacrificed Himself for our sins in order for us to spend eternity with Him in heaven.

 

[ShiningBecky]

God revealed Himself first to Israel and then according to His plan to all of us including the gentile. But your question is set in a time before Christ, so in order for a gentile to understand and appreciate who God is in all aspects, the gentile must be privy to and understand the Bible which according to your time line, is the Old Testament.



God does not hate the gentile. If your question was designed to get responses, you have succeeded but the question is only academic. The truth is Christ did come, did die for all of us, and rose again to complete the promised work.




Your professor is wrong and probably without the ability to interpret and understand the theology of the book of Job or he would not have made such a foolish statement.

God is just and loving. The proof of this is the fact that Christ did come and sacrificed Himself for our sins in order for us to spend eternity with Him in heaven.

Actually he was dead right. He also graduated Harvard and was a brilliant man whom I greatly loved listening to. A lot better than most preachers that is for sure. I agree with him too.

The question was hypothetical but a meaningful one. If you say yes, I want to know why you'd love a god who hates you. If no, then I understand and am there too.

To be honest, I'm not so sure about any part of the Jesus tale anymore. Used to believe in it, now not so much. The bible is not reason enough to believe anything.

 

[golgotha61]

Actually he was dead right. He also graduated Harvard and was a brilliant man whom I greatly loved listening to. A lot better than most preachers that is for sure. I agree with him too.

He is dead, dead in his sins, but right? No. Knowledge is not the way to salvation, that is a Gnostic teaching.

The question was hypothetical but a meaningful one. If you say yes, I want to know why you'd love a god who hates you. If no, then I understand and am there too.

The answer is still yes and your statement is false to say that God hates me or you.

To be honest, I'm not so sure about any part of the Jesus tale anymore. Used to believe in it, now not so much. The bible is not reason enough to believe anything.

Then believe the evidences of men's lives changed because of the truth of the resurrection. Believe the truth of God's promises because of the preservation of the Nation Israel. At least allow the historical proof of a man named Jesus' existence and allow that to be your reconnection with Him. There are many more reasons and proofs but time is out for me right now. I am on my way out.

Give Christ a chance. He does love you.

 

[ShiningBecky]

He is dead, dead in his sins, but right? No. Knowledge is not the way to salvation, that is a Gnostic teaching.




The answer is still yes and your statement is false to say that God hates me or you.




Then believe the evidences of men's lives changed because of the truth of the resurrection. Believe the truth of God's promises because of the preservation of the Nation Israel. At least allow the historical proof of a man named Jesus' existence and allow that to be your reconnection with Him. There are many more reasons and proofs but time is out for me right now. I am on my way out.

Give Christ a chance. He does love you.

Uh... I wouldn't judge that. He's a much better man than you are, I'm sure of that.

If knowledge isn't the key to salvation, then what is?

So god loves people but still delights in sending them to their doom in hell anyway? That makes literally no sense!!

The nation of Israel proves nothing about xtianity. It doesn't prove Judaism either.

I haven't seen anybody's lives changed over that.

I gave Jesus a chance. He turned out to just be a figment of my imagination. My Jesus was the fairy tale whom I constructed in my own mind. It turns out your Jesus picks and chooses who to save and who to damn, he died to appease his angry dad who hates us and demands blood rather than forgiveness. This god is distant and cold. Nothing like a good or loving parent should be.

If my earthly parents were half as bad as god is, I wouldn't even be here now! I'd be dead. No, my earthly parents both love me and accept me, flaws and all. They don't want to see my tortured forever because I was born less than perfect, unlike your god!!

 

[Bear.Fr00t]

I bet your earthly Father would gladly offer his life for yours. This is what your heavenly father did. The Bible shows us that Jesus suffered for our sins not just physically, but spiritually. Read Isaiah 53 and realize that that Isaiah 53 was written 700 years before Christ, yet details the suffering of Christ.

He was oppressed and He was afflicted,
Yet He opened not His mouth;
He was led as a lamb to the slaughter,
And as a sheep before its shearers is silent,
So He opened not His mouth.

Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise Him;
He has put Him to grief.
When You make His soul an offering for sin,
He shall see His seed, He shall prolong His days,
And the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in His hand.

It's hard to reconcile the love of God with the justice of God. Even christians struggle with this.

BTW, I don't believe in eternal torment. I believe the lost will be consumed by the fire, annihilation is the term most often used. Annhilation is supported by the Bible, but eternal torment is also supported by the Bible depending on what Bible verses are ignored and which Bible verses are twisted to say what you want them to say. Hell is a confusing subject when you really dig into the Bible.

 

[drich0150]

But Christians say only they are God's children, everyone else is a child of Satan.

Do you have book chapter and verse for that or is that something spiteful people say to hurt one another?

Also, why would you love someone who does not love you and wants to throw you in hell forever?

If you have ever been addicted to drugs or sinned against your parents to the point where they have no other choice but to hold you accountable to your actions maybe then you could see past your own version of righteousness to what has to be done. You are not a good person, none of us are good enough to deserve Heaven.

Any parent who thought that way toward me would be shunned for eternity because I deserve better from someone who supposedly brought me into the world and claims to "love" me.

God above all else is Righteous. Righteousness demands a accountability or atonement for sin. True Love on His part provided you with atonement. Love on your part would have you accept the sacrifice given.

If Jesus never died for us then we would still be seeking atonement through animal sacrifice. Either way atonement is provided.

 

[razeontherock]

Also, why would you love someone who does not love you and wants to throw you in hell forever?

This question is an assumption (never good) a false assumption (a particularly type to make) and otherwise pretty loaded. May I suggest you unpack that a bit?

Anyway if Jesus didn't die for me it wouldn't affect anything except our ability to "know" G-d, in any real sense. We'd still be separated. If you practice that love you profess, you do so by being joined to Him. No, you don't have to understand those terms, accept them, or even like them, but that is what they mean. So the only difficulty is learning how they are used, so that they indeed do mean that. (Which can be challenging enough)

 

[ViaCrucis]

Would you still love God if Jesus did not die for you? Yes or no is fine.

If Christianity were not true and/or its story never happened at all, then all things being equal I'd think I probably would still have love for the Divine in whatever way I comprehended that.

It'd be quite different since as a Christian my entire understanding and thought processes concerning Divinity come in and through Jesus of Nazareth; and without Jesus in the picture the entire image and conception of the Divine is going to look radically different.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[ViaCrucis]

But christians say only they are God's children, everyone else is a child of satan.

No, we don't. Some might, but not all of us.

Also, why would you love someone who does not love you and wants to throw you in hell forever?

Since when does God want to throw anyone into Hell for any period of time?

Any parent who thought that way toward me would be shunned for eternity because I deserve better from someone who supposedly brought me into the world and claims to "love" me.

I agree. Which is why I believe we have a God who loves everyone and loves them unconditionally. Regardless of who they are.

-CryptoLutheran