There is no OSAS

[Sieben]

Like I said before, it's only forever if we remain in Him. If we stray away from the path, only gloom awaits.

For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning. For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them. But it has happened to them according to the true proverb: “A dog returns to his own vomit,” and, “a sow, having washed, to her wallowing in the mire.” 2 Peter 2:20-22

"But when the righteous turns away from his righteousness, and commits iniquity, and does according to all the abominations that the wicked man does, shall he live? All his righteousness that he has done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he has trespassed, and in his sin that he has sinned, in them shall he die." Ezekiel 18:24

Are you so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are you now made perfect by the flesh? Galatians 3:3

"I will hear what God the LORD will speak: for he will speak peace unto his people, and to his saints: but let them not turn again to folly. Surely his salvation is near those that fear him; that glory may dwell in our land." Psalm 85:8-9

"For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: Of how much sorer punishment, suppose you, shall he be thought worthy, who has trodden under foot the Son of God, and has counted the blood of the covenant, with which he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and has done despite to the Spirit of grace?" Hebrews 10:26-29

"He that overcomes, the same shall be clothed in white clothing; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels." Revelation 3:5

"Christ is become of no effect to you, whoever of you are justified by the law; you are fallen from grace." Galatians 5:4

"Remember therefore from where you are fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come to you quickly, and will remove your candlestick out of his place, except you repent." Revelation 2:5

Yes Exactly.

I was reading psalms earlier too, Psalm 95.
Verses 7-11, speak of people being condemned.
It also speaks of the rebellion, no one can say those who rebelled were not under Him Or else they had nothing to rebel from.

 

[heymikey80]

Look, I have been disobedient in those times. Not that I didn't recognize my sin, just that I had fallen into the trap of having a life of sin every day. I did not pluck out my eye or cut off my hand you can say, instead I let whatever was causing me to sin to fester and he chastised me. So its not that I didn't believe, because even though I was despairing and thinking about life without my precious faith, I just trusted in Him anyways, and he bound me up you can say.

I don't know about anyone else, I expect every believer to have been chastised by the Lord.

Count on it. (Scripture actually says that, Heb 12 I believe).

Annd anyway, my point was that if someone is chastised, but hardens their neck, will they not be destroyed? I am no special person to the Lord, even if I was a rare jewel to Him. He would destroy me if I turned against Him in sin

You think God would destroy His child? You are a special person, but for no other reason than "Who loves ya, baby." Sorry, a quote from an ol' singer.

You do mean more to Him: because He has intentionally committed Himself to you, not because you're different in and of yourself.

He's made the commitment, and will carry it through despite our weaknesses.

However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him. 10 If Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness. 11 But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you. Rom 8:9-11

 

[Hentenza]

No one has yet attempted to address a question that I asked several posts back. Did the martyrs of the faith such as Stephen, James of Zebebee, Ignatius, and all that have willingly died for Christ go to their deaths with a maybe or with an assurance that they would see the Lord?

 

[Sieben]

No one has yet attempted to address a question that I asked several posts back. Did the martyrs of the faith such as Stephen, James of Zebebee, Ignatius, and all that have willingly died for Christ go to their deaths with a maybe or with an assurance that they would see the Lord?

Of course they did. They now sleep till the first resurrection!

 

[Publius]

Of course they did. They now sleep till the first resurrection!

To be absent from the body is to be asleep?

 

[Sieben]

To be absent from the body is to be asleep?

Well I do not see any reason why anyone is in heaven now.
Christ Jesus only says he will raise us up at the last day repeatedly in scripture.
And the prophets also speak of this, Dan 12:12


Anyway, I won't talk about that in this thread as to not derail it from its original purpose

 

[heymikey80]

Like I said before, it's only forever if we remain in Him. If we stray away from the path, only gloom awaits.

For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning. For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them. But it has happened to them according to the true proverb: “A dog returns to his own vomit,” and, “a sow, having washed, to her wallowing in the mire.” 2 Peter 2:20-22

"But when the righteous turns away from his righteousness, and commits iniquity, and does according to all the abominations that the wicked man does, shall he live? All his righteousness that he has done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he has trespassed, and in his sin that he has sinned, in them shall he die." Ezekiel 18:24

Are you so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are you now made perfect by the flesh? Galatians 3:3

"I will hear what God the LORD will speak: for he will speak peace unto his people, and to his saints: but let them not turn again to folly. Surely his salvation is near those that fear him; that glory may dwell in our land." Psalm 85:8-9

"For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: Of how much sorer punishment, suppose you, shall he be thought worthy, who has trodden under foot the Son of God, and has counted the blood of the covenant, with which he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and has done despite to the Spirit of grace?" Hebrews 10:26-29

"He that overcomes, the same shall be clothed in white clothing; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels." Revelation 3:5

"Christ is become of no effect to you, whoever of you are justified by the law; you are fallen from grace." Galatians 5:4

"Remember therefore from where you are fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come to you quickly, and will remove your candlestick out of his place, except you repent." Revelation 2:5

Gloom awaits everyone who strays.
Everyone strays.
Therefore by this measure gloom awaits everyone.

 

[Hentenza]

Of course they did. They now sleep till the first resurrection!

A little correction. Their bodies sleep, their souls are already with the Lord.

 

[Lion King]

Gloom awaits everyone who strays.
Everyone strays.
Therefore by this measure gloom awaits everyone.

Not true. Not everyone strays, only those who live in flesh.

 

[Lindas Place]

Like I said before, it's only forever if we remain in Him. If we stray away from the path, only gloom awaits.

"For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: Of how much sorer punishment, suppose you, shall he be thought worthy, who has trodden under foot the Son of God, and has counted the blood of the covenant, with which he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and has done despite to the Spirit of grace?" Hebrews 10:26-29

None of the scriptures you quoted say that God will disown His children... I will try to respond to all of them one at a time.... Hebrews is my favorite and chapter 10 is the my very favorite, because it confirms that no child of God needs to be concerned with being disown by God.

Hebrews 10… it is written to the Jews, ethnically real Jew, who had heard the gospel, but did not have confidence in the blood of Jesus, they thought they could lose their salvation, because they continued to sin… and that’s why they started offering animal sacrifices again… they lost faith in the blood of Jesus, and that is deliberately sinning, after you have received the knowledge of the truth… Jesus is the only sacrifice needed… Jesus is not going to come and be crucified over and over again for their sins like animal sacrifices… He died once for ALL their sins…

If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. How much more severely do you think a man deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God under foot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified him, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace?

For we know him who said, "It is mine to avenge; I will repay," and again, "The Lord will judge his people." 31It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

Hebrews 10 26-31 19 Therefore, brothers, since we have confidence to enter the Most Holy Place by the blood of Jesus,

35 So do not throw away your confidence; it will be richly rewarded.

 

[Lindas Place]

Like I said before, it's only forever if we remain in Him. If we stray away from the path, only gloom awaits.

"He that overcomes, the same shall be clothed in white clothing; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels." Revelation 3:

This scripture alone should make us jump for joy! "I WILL NOT BLOT OUT HIS NAME".... doesn't get any clearer than that... blessed assurance.

*** Who will overcome?

1 John 5:4
for everyone born of God overcomes the world. This is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith.

1 John 5:5
Who is it that overcomes the world? Only he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God.

 

[Lion King]

None of the scriptures you quoted say that God will disown His children...

I am afraid you haven't understood the Scriptures then. God will rightly disown those who stray away from Him. If the LORD can easily cut off some the natural branches (Israel) from the olive tree, imagine what He'll do to the wild branches (Gentiles)?

Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but tremble. For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either.

Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off. And if they do not persist in unbelief, they will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. Romans 11:20-23

God bless.

 

[Sieben]

This scripture alone should make us jump for joy! "I WILL NOT BLOT OUT HIS NAME".... doesn't get any clearer than that... blessed assurance.

*** Who will overcome?

1 John 5:4
for everyone born of God overcomes the world. This is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith.

1 John 5:5
Who is it that overcomes the world? Only he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God.

IF you lose the faith, then you become unsaved.
The fallacy of once saved always saved

Anyone can say another person has had not saving faith, but if someone is being told I will not blot them who overcomes out of the book of life, then those people have saving faith. No one who is not saved is not in this book. Only the born agains names are. Sinners names are written in the books of works.

So there is another fallacy, ignoring what is being said. God recognizes them in the book of life, so why would he say such a thing? "I will not blot them out of the book of life" If your name is blotted out then you're condemned. You have become condemned.

I don't think scripture can be any more plain than the pure examples being given right now

 

[Lindas Place]

Like I said before, it's only forever if we remain in Him. If we stray away from the path, only gloom awaits.


"Christ is become of no effect to you, whoever of you are justified by the law; you are fallen from grace." Galatians 5:4

"Remember therefore from where you are fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come to you quickly, and will remove your candlestick out of his place, except you repent." Revelation 2:5

Fall Away does not mean lose salvation, it means to lose faith in the blood of Jesus, like the Hebrews did when they returned to animal sacrifice for their sins... believing you can lose God's salvation is falling away, because you put confidence/faith in something other than Jesus, like yourself.

if we are faithless, he will remain faithful, for he cannot disown himself. 2 Tim 2:13

PETER “FELL AWAY”
Peter declared, "Even if all fall away, I will not." "I tell you the truth," Jesus answered, "today—yes, tonight—before the rooster crows twice you yourself will disown me three times." Mark 14:29-30

All THE DISIPLES “FELL AWAY”
"You will all fall away," Jesus told them, "for it is written: " 'I will strike the shepherd, and the sheep will be scattered.' But after I have risen, I will go ahead of you into Galilee." Mark 14:27-28

GALATIONS “FELL AWAY” BECAUSE THEY WERE TRYING TO KEEP THEIR SALVATION BY KEEPING THE LAW.
You who are trying to be justified by law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace. Galatians 5:4

JOHN THE BAPTIST’S “FELL AWAY”
When John heard in prison what Christ was doing, he sent his disciples to ask him, "Are you the one who was to come, or should we expect someone else?" Jesus replied, "Go back and report to John what you hear and see: The blind receive sight, the lame walk, those who have leprosy are cured, the deaf hear, the dead are raised, and the good news is preached to the poor. Blessed is the man who does not fall away on account of me." Matthew 11:2-6

 

[Lion King]

This scripture alone should make us jump for joy! "I WILL NOT BLOT OUT HIS NAME".... doesn't get any clearer than that... blessed assurance.

*** Who will overcome?

1 John 5:4
for everyone born of God overcomes the world. This is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith.

1 John 5:5
Who is it that overcomes the world? Only he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God.

Yes, it's a blessed assurance only if you remain in the LORD. As I said earlier, Christians CAN fall from grace:

These things happened to them as examples and were written down as warnings for us, on whom the culmination of the ages has come. So, if you think you are standing firm, be careful that you don’t fall! 1 Corinthians 10:11-12

 

[Lindas Place]

IF you lose the faith, then you become unsaved.
The fallacy of once saved always saved

Anyone can say another person has had not saving faith, but if someone is being told I will not blot them who overcomes out of the book of life, then those people have saving faith. No one who is not saved is not in this book. Only the born agains names are. Sinners names are written in the books of works.

So there is another fallacy, ignoring what is being said. God recognizes them in the book of life, so why would he say such a thing? "I will not blot them out of the book of life" If your name is blotted out then you're condemned. You have become condemned.

I don't think scripture can be any more plain than the pure examples being given right now

The book of life was completed before the foundation of the world... God is not writing and erasing... and there is no reason to add to the scripture... it means what it say's "HE WILL NOT" not He will.... and it was to encourage the hearer.... not to comdemn them.

 

[Sieben]

The book of life was completed before the foundation of the world... God is not writing and erasing... and there is no reason to add to the scripture... it means what it say's "HE WILL NOT" not He will.... and it was to encourage the hearer.... not to comdemn them.

He is not writing or erasing? Where do you get that?

Yes he has planned before the foundation of the world to save everyone through Jesus Christ. But that doesn't mean he is heartless, he offers salvation to all people. As 1 John 2:2 states "Not ours only, but also the whole worlds"

If no ones name is being written or erased, then there is no reason to believe in Christ Jesus. Preaching is in vain. Studying is in vain. Everyone should despair then, there is no assurance.

 

[Lindas Place]

Yes, it's a blessed assurance only if you remain in the LORD. As I said earlier, Christians CAN fall from grace:

These things happened to them as examples and were written down as warnings for us, on whom the culmination of the ages has come. So, if you think you are standing firm, be careful that you don’t fall! 1 Corinthians 10:11-12

When does a person receive the Holy Spirit?

And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God's possession—to the praise of his glory Ephesians 1:13-14

Does this mean God has accepted them?
Acts 15:8
God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us.

Will Jesus lose any the Father gives Him?
John 6:37-39
37 All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away. 38 For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me. 39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all that he has given me, but raise them up at the last day.

 

[Lion King]

Fall Away does not mean lose salvation, it means to lose faith in the blood of Jesus, like the Hebrews did when they returned to animal sacrifice for their sins... believing you can lose God's salvation is falling away, because you put confidence/faith in something other than Jesus, like yourself.

if we are faithless, he will remain faithful, for he cannot disown himself. 2 Tim 2:13

PETER “FELL AWAY”
Peter declared, "Even if all fall away, I will not." "I tell you the truth," Jesus answered, "today—yes, tonight—before the rooster crows twice you yourself will disown me three times." Mark 14:29-30

All THE DISIPLES “FELL AWAY”
"You will all fall away," Jesus told them, "for it is written: " 'I will strike the shepherd, and the sheep will be scattered.' But after I have risen, I will go ahead of you into Galilee." Mark 14:27-28

GALATIONS “FELL AWAY” BECAUSE THEY WERE TRYING TO KEEP THEIR SALVATION BY KEEPING THE LAW.
You who are trying to be justified by law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace. Galatians 5:4

JOHN THE BAPTIST’S “FELL AWAY”
When John heard in prison what Christ was doing, he sent his disciples to ask him, "Are you the one who was to come, or should we expect someone else?" Jesus replied, "Go back and report to John what you hear and see: The blind receive sight, the lame walk, those who have leprosy are cured, the deaf hear, the dead are raised, and the good news is preached to the poor. Blessed is the man who does not fall away on account of me." Matthew 11:2-6

While the Scriptures teach that we can fall away, it is not usually permanent (unless you commit the unpardonable sin). The parable of the prodigal son testifies to that. It's really simple, if we repent and confess our sins to God through prayer, He will forgive us all our trespasses.

Repent of this wickedness and pray to the Lord in the hope that he may forgive you for having such a thought in your heart. For I see that you are full of bitterness and captive to sin.” Acts 8:22-23

If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. 1 John 1:9

"Remember therefore from where you are fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come to you quickly, and will remove your candlestick out of his place, except you repent." Revelation 2:5

However, if we do not repent, we already stand condemned (thus lose our salvation).

 

[Rick Otto]

I am afraid you haven't understood the Scriptures then. God will rightly disown those who stray away from Him. If the LORD can easily cut off some the natural branches (Israel) from the olive tree, imagine what He'll do to the wild branches (Gentiles)?

Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but tremble. For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either.

Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off. And if they do not persist in unbelief, they will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. Romans 11:20-23

God bless.

Re-gifting salvation? I don't think so. He's warning them that even tho they are chosen to have been given faith and both a faith community & a nation to house it, all that can be stripped away & themselves exiled as captives, just like the Jews.
God doesn't save you from damnation, let you slide back into damnation & save you again. Once you have eternal life, you have life eternaly.