The Rapture Of The Church

[dfw69]

thank you for your honesty Zeke37......yes i get confused..lol....i will say the children of israel instead......but the children of israel would not have allowed their inheritance by tribe to be forgotten....

the whole house of Israel must exist....even when they were scattered by assyria then babylonia they keep their tribes ....and i truly believe though rome scattered her and its been many years until their return to the land of Israel they still held to their tribes.....so not lost.....when the kingdom comes they will be restored and receive the land promised to each tribe.....

but prophecy proves Israel is not lost....for one more scattering is prophecied to come to pass to the nation of israel......this will be done by antichrist....

yes i believe that the 144000 of the actual true 12 tribes of israel will become or are christians(having faith in jesus) and are the firstfruits of harvest unto the messiah and be raptured before the antichrist comes into israel and jerusalem

 

[Lysimachus]

Lysimachus;59133339]








Wow. Please.




Impossible. The 144,000 are from the 12 tribes.......just like it says.







No, the 144,000 are the first fruits of the harvest of Israel.....Rev 14:14-16. Just like it says.




Some of them go through the Time of Trouble because we see they come out of great tribulation..........just like it says.




They will resurrect before the wrath of God has been poured out. That is why you see the great multitude in heaven before the seventh seal.....just like it says.

The 144,000 will be protected from wrath because they will be in heaven. They are the first fruits of the great multitude.....just like it says.


Who is teaching you this stuff? You could use a change. Try applying what it says and see what happens.

When James was writing his letter to the Church, he labeled them the "twelve tribes" that were scattered.

James 1:1 - "James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.​

Yet in the same letter, the context shows that he is writing to the Church:

5:14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord​

The "twelve tribes" now symbolically belongs to the Church.

The 144,000 cannot in any way shape or form be literal Jews. They are SPIRITUAL JEWS.

Here is a link to prove it:

http://www.amazingfacts.org/Resources/Download/PBLib/BK-WWSS.pdf

And here is another good one:

http://www.amazingfacts.org/Resources/Download/PBLib/BK-WWSS.pdf

 

[Lysimachus]

.

No, the 144,000 are the first fruits of the harvest of Israel.....Rev 14:14-16. Just like it says.

This is referring to the Second Coming which is also the Rapture. This is talking about God's people. The 144,000 are symbolic, not literal. They are the "elite force" of God's Church--God's people--those who have gone through great tribulation and have experienced Jacob's trouble.

Some of them go through the Time of Trouble because we see they come out of great tribulation..........just like it says.

It may be possible, but it does not say "THE" great tribulation". It says "great tribulation". Big difference. Same as when Paul said "we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God" (Acts 14:22) It's talking about the redeemed through all the ages. But the 144,000 is that special company that overcomes every defect of character, and are perfect in Christ. They press together, and unify, and work out their differences. They receive the Latter Rain, just like the Church did at Pentecost. They are the final saints who are translated when Jesus Comes--without tasting death.

They will resurrect before the wrath of God has been poured out. That is why you see the great multitude in heaven before the seventh seal.....just like it says.

But it does not say what you are saying. Scripture with scripture. You are reading Revelation without the aid of the Old and other New Testament scriptures. You cannot interpret Revelation without understanding the other passages of scripture. You are also reading Revelation in chronological order, but if you do this, you must conclude there are 3 lakes of fire, and 3 times the New Jerusalem descends from heaven. Revelation 7 is not describing events that transpire prior to the 7th seal in Revelation 8. It is fast-forwarding--(adding a parenthesis) of what is seen later. Revelation 8 simply jumps back on track. John is notorious for going forward, then backward, repeating and enlarging, and he does this throughout the entire book. Revelation is written in a "chiasm", not chronological order.

The ultimate proof of this is that AFTER the 7th seal, you have the Devil being cast out of heaven in Revelation 12, and then you also have the Second Coming (7th seal) described in Revelation 6 and 19! In fact, it describes the Second Coming in Revelation 6:14-17 when heaven departs as a scroll AFTER the 6th seal described in verses 12 and 13, and BEFORE the 144,000 and Great Multitude are discussed in chapter 7. Then you have the Second Coming described again in chapter 19--when the flesh of "all men" are being consumed by the fowls. Not to mention that verse 1 says "And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honour, and power, unto the Lord our God." Why is John saying he saw people in heaven "after" "these things" if he already saw them in chapter 7? It's because it's repeating events from different angles, filling in the blanks. There is a LOT going on in REvelation

The 144,000 will be protected from wrath because they will be in heaven. They are the first fruits of the great multitude.....just like it says.

But the first fruits transpire after "the" great tribulation. Old Testament typology shows that Moses and the Israelites were still in Egypt while the 10 plagues fell. Yet God protected them. It was not until after the 10 plagues fell that the Israelites were delivered out of Egypt to go to the Promised Land.

So, this Old Testament typology is a teaching device so that we know what order it will be at the end of time. God's people will be on the earth DURING the tribulation, but they will be delivered "out of it". Meaning, they will not receive the judgments. The dead and dying will be falling all around us (just like Psalms 91 describes), but God's people will be protected. This is exactly what needs to happen so that the wicked can see that even amidst all the tribulation around them, God can still protect His children. Thousands will fall at our right hand, and another ten thousand at our left hand.

Who is teaching you this stuff? You could use a change. Try applying what it says and see what happens.

Revelation is not such a simple book. It requires sound exegesis. Students of prophecy have sweated for years trying to crack these codes. Reading it in straight chronological order is absolutely impossible. There are hundreds and hundreds of parenthesis scattered throughout the book to help depict the great controversy theme between Christ and Satan.

It is a book for the Church, not the literal Nation of Israel.

Revelation 22:16 - I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches.​

 

[vinsight4u]

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[vinsight4u]

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[vinsight4u]

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[zeke37]

thank you for your honesty Zeke37......yes i get confused..lol....i will say the children of israel instead......but the children of israel would not have allowed their inheritance by tribe to be forgotten....

hi
but obviously they did, as they are not known by their tribes today...are they?
but Our God knows who they are.

the whole house of Israel must exist....even when they were scattered by assyria then babylonia they keep their tribes ....

after some time, not really.
only a sparse few of the northern tribes returned to Israel.
most did not.

and i truly believe though rome scattered her and its been many years until their return to the land of Israel they still held to their tribes.....

rome?

so not lost.....

sattered abroad, to the 4 winds

when the kingdom comes they will be restored and receive the land promised to each tribe.....

yep.

but prophecy proves Israel is not lost....for one more scattering is prophecied to come to pass to the nation of israel......this will be done by antichrist....

the Saints, not the nation of political Israel today.
Saints refers to us Christians, in the NT.
God's holy people are those who keep the commandments and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
they are certainly not he ones that deny Him

yes i believe that the 144000 of the actual true 12 tribes of israel will become or are christians(having faith in jesus)

not become...those sealed elect, are sealed in Rev7, before the 4 winds blow....
so they are not converts.

and are the firstfruits of harvest unto the messiah and be raptured before the antichrist comes into israel and jerusalem

not before antiChrist, but after.
the rapture happens after the dead are raised and walk among us.
but before the wrath of God, which is NOT the trib, but after it.

 

[vinsight4u]

/

 

[Choose Wisely]

When James was writing his letter to the Church, he labeled them the "twelve tribes" that were scattered.

James 1:1 - "James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.
​

Yet in the same letter, the context shows that he is writing to the Church:

5:14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord
​

The "twelve tribes" now symbolically belongs to the Church.

The 144,000 cannot in any way shape or form be literal Jews. They are SPIRITUAL JEWS.

Here is a link to prove it:

http://www.amazingfacts.org/Resources/Download/PBLib/BK-WWSS.pdf

And here is another good one:

http://www.amazingfacts.org/Resources/Download/PBLib/BK-WWSS.pdf

First let me compliment you on the two posts that you have written. There are many important key points that we do not agree on. However, we do agree in part how Rev flows.........and I would like to compliment you for your overall knowledge.

As to this first point we will just have to disagree. Yes James is addressing the 12 tribes and also mentioning the church. But Israel certainly was not saved like they will be in the time of the tribulation. They will receive the latter rain and will come to know Him whom they have pierced.

The Church will be gone in the pre trib rapture. The 144,000 will be 12000 from each tribe.........just like it says.

 

[dfw69]

the Saints, not the nation of political Israel today.
Saints refers to us Christians, in the NT.
God's holy people are those who keep the commandments and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
they are certainly not he ones that deny Him

yes the nation of political Israel today.......

Zech 1:18-19

18 Then I raised my eyes and looked, and there were four horns.

19 And I said to the angel who talked with me, “What are these?” So he answered me, “These are the horns that have scattered Judah, Israel, and Jerusalem.”.........

here in prophecy Judah Israel and Jerusalem is scattered 4 times by 4 horns that will rise thoughout history......and we know in history that Judah Israel and Jerusalem have only been scattered 3 times.....by assyrian , babylonian and roman empires.....one more scattering is left to come for israel......when the antichrist sets up the abomination and Israel flees to wilderness to petra where she is feed is the last scattering.....peace

 

[Choose Wisely]

Lysimachus;59134468]

This is referring to the Second Coming which is also the Rapture. This is talking about God's people. The 144,000 are symbolic, not literal. They are the "elite force" of God's Church--God's people--those who have gone through great tribulation and have experienced Jacob's trouble.

We will just disagree on every point in this comment. The second coming is not the Rapture. In fact there will be a pre trib rapture, a pre wrath rapture and a second coming.

The 144,000 are not symbolic. They are the first fruits of the coming harvest of Israel.

There is a reason it is Jacobs trouble...........Israel. The mostly gentile church will be gone.

It may be possible, but it does not say "THE" great tribulation". It says "great tribulation". Big difference. Same as when Paul said "we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God" (Acts 14:22) It's talking about the redeemed through all the ages.

I agree with your point, however the timing shows me that the tribulation is over.......and it is the great trib.

But the 144,000 is that special company that overcomes every defect of character, and are perfect in Christ. They press together, and unify, and work out their differences. They receive the Latter Rain, just like the Church did at Pentecost. They are the final saints who are translated when Jesus Comes--without tasting death.

They are the first fruits of the harvest of Israel.

But it does not say what you are saying. Scripture with scripture. You are reading Revelation without the aid of the Old and other New Testament scriptures. You cannot interpret Revelation without understanding the other passages of scripture. You are also reading Revelation in chronological order, but if you do this, you must conclude there are 3 lakes of fire, and 3 times the New Jerusalem descends from heaven. Revelation 7 is not describing events that transpire prior to the 7th seal in Revelation 8. It is fast-forwarding--(adding a parenthesis) of what is seen later. Revelation 8 simply jumps back on track. John is notorious for going forward, then backward, repeating and enlarging, and he does this throughout the entire book. Revelation is written in a "chiasm", not chronological order.

No, I am not reading Rev in chronological order and I am using the old testament. I agree with what you are saying about the order of Rev (it is not in order).

and then you also have the Second Coming (7th seal) described in Revelation 6 and 19!

The second coming is in Rev 19. The 7th seal is not the second coming, it is the wrath of God. The harvest of Israel and old test saints will happen before the 7th seal. This is the great multitude.


The order of events would be, the pre tribulation rapture of the church, then the tribulation - Jacobs trouble, then the tribulation is over , the first fruits of Israel - 144,000 are taken to heaven, Israel is raptured and then the wrath of God is poured out on the earth..........Then the second coming.

In fact, it describes the Second Coming in Revelation 6:14-17 when heaven departs as a scroll AFTER the 6th seal described in verses 12 and 13,

No, this is not the second coming. This is WRATH OF GOD.

and BEFORE the 144,000 and Great Multitude are discussed in chapter 7. Then you have the Second Coming described again in chapter 19--when the flesh of "all men" are being consumed by the fowls.

The 144000 and great multitude have nothing to do with the second coming. They have to do with the harvest. Rev 14:1-5 are the first fruits taken to heaven. Rev14:14-16 is the harvest of Israel and the old test saints. The remainder are in the wrath of God

Not to mention that verse 1 says "And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honour, and power, unto the Lord our God." Why is John saying he saw people in heaven "after" "these things" if he already saw them in chapter 7? It's because it's repeating events from different angles, filling in the blanks. There is a LOT going on in REvelation

I totally agree with this.............

But the first fruits transpire after "the" great tribulation. Old Testament typology shows that Moses and the Israelites were still in Egypt while the 10 plagues fell. Yet God protected them. It was not until after the 10 plagues fell that the Israelites were delivered out of Egypt to go to the Promised Land.

So, this Old Testament typology is a teaching device so that we know what order it will be at the end of time. God's people will be on the earth DURING the tribulation, but they will be delivered "out of it". Meaning, they will not receive the judgments. The dead and dying will be falling all around us (just like Psalms 91 describes), but God's people will be protected. This is exactly what needs to happen so that the wicked can see that even amidst all the tribulation around them, God can still protect His children. Thousands will fall at our right hand, and another ten thousand at our left hand.

Israel will go through the tribulation, the church will not. It is the time of JACOBS TROUBLE.......ISRAEL.

Revelation is not such a simple book. It requires sound exegesis. Students of prophecy have sweated for years trying to crack these codes. Reading it in straight chronological order is absolutely impossible. There are hundreds and hundreds of parenthesis scattered throughout the book to help depict the great controversy theme between Christ and Satan.

Totally agree.

It is a book for the Church, not the literal Nation of Israel.

The church will be taken in the pre trib rapture and Israel will go through the tribulation. There will be two harvests.

The multitude in Rev 7 is harvest in Rev 14:14-16

 

[zeke37]

Hi zeke37,

One of the other things i have in my notes that I wrote before I replied to you a bit ago is another thing I see as a key. John did not say that he saw "the" 144,000. He couldn't because in chapter 7 he never was allowed to see the people getting sealed. John only saw the angels and heard the numbers report.

why do u think that is relevant?

 

[Lysimachus]

The Church will be gone in the pre trib rapture. The 144,000 will be 12000 from each tribe.........just like it says.

But "just like it says" cannot mean what you think it says, because the 12 tribes were lost a long time ago. The best experts agree that there is no longer any pure blood of these tribes. Read the links I gave, and you will realize it to be impossible.

Revelation is a book of symbols. You have horns, a woman, bottomless pit, smoke, a dragon, a beast, a false prophet, a woman standing on the moon, etc. etc. etc.

In Revelation, you have Babylon which represents world-wide apostasy.

In Revelation you have Egypt and Sodom which is spiritual.

Consistency demands that if Babylon is spiritual, so must be its foe which is anachronistic to Babylon, Israel.

You cannot have Literal Israel juxtaposed to Spiritual Babylon. This is inconsistent. If you are going to have Literal Israel, you must have Literal Babylon.

But we know this is impossible, for Jeremiah foretells the literal city of Babylon would never be rebuilt.

So, it is Spiritual World-Wide Babylon vs. Spiritual World-Wide Israel. Just like Egypt and Sodom are spiritual.

This is what we call consistency of hermeneutics.

 

[vinsight4u]

/

 

[Choose Wisely]

Lysimachus;59142956]

But "just like it says" cannot mean what you think it says, because the 12 tribes were lost a long time ago. The best experts agree that there is no longer any pure blood of these tribes. Read the links I gave, and you will realize it to be impossible.

I read the links but certainly don't agree with them. God says that He will get 12,000 from each tribe.........WE CAN BE SURE HE WILL GET 12000 FROM EACH TRIBE. I don't really care what man says or thinks.......We have the Word of God to KNOW what will happen. Surely you believe that God could keep the lines pure.

People said that Israel would not be formed as a nation. They came up with replacement theology to help God keep His word. He didn't need help. They said Israel was a worthless desert, God said it would produce fruit. How'd that work out.

It's time for you to start believing what God said and quit following what men say. When you do that, you will have a better understanding of what will happen.

In Revelation, you have Babylon which represents world-wide apostasy.
In Revelation you have Egypt and Sodom which is spiritual.


Consistency demands that if Babylon is spiritual, so must be its foe which is anachronistic to Babylon, Israel.

You cannot have Literal Israel juxtaposed to Spiritual Babylon. This is inconsistent. If you are going to have Literal Israel, you must have Literal Babylon.

But we know this is impossible, for Jeremiah foretells the literal city of Babylon would never be rebuilt.

So, it is Spiritual World-Wide Babylon vs. Spiritual World-Wide Israel. Just like Egypt and Sodom are spiritual.

This is what we call consistency of hermeneutics.

So you conclude that Babylon is spiritual so Israel must be spiritual. You conclude that Babylon will never be rebuilt because Jeremiah foretold that Babylon would not be rebuilt.

Well, I conclude that Jeremiahs prophecy was not just against the city of Babylon, but against the land of the Chaldeans.

Jer 50
1The word that the LORD spake against Babylon and against the land of the Chaldeans by Jeremiah the prophet.

I conclude that the City of Babylon was not destroyed by the sword but was abandoned. I conclude that Jeremiahs prophecy did not occur thousands of year ago, but is occurring right now. I conclude that Babylon is in the middle of a three part judgment. Right now, a great nation has come against Babylon. In the first phase the nations of the earth came from the farthest border to shoot at Babylon. This never happened before but occurred in Gulf War 1. The third phase of the judgment will occur when the Medes (the Kurds) destroy Babylon during the Day of the Lord.

Jer 50
41Behold, a people shall come from the north, and a great nation, and many kings shall be raised up from the coasts of the earth.

So you say that it is impossible to have literal Babylon and yet the truth is the judgment that you think has already happened is occurring right now. You might want to read Jeremiah 50 and 51 and Isaiah 13. You will see in Isaiah 13 that the Day of the Lord is near when this occurs. You might study what happened in Gulf War 1 and Gulf War 2. You might study and find that the city of Babylon was not destroyed by the sword but was abandoned.

You see, God will do exactly what he says he will do. He doesn't need any help to perform his word exactly like he says. So if you want to understand the Bible.......read..........exactly what it says.....and believe it.

 

[Lysimachus]

Lysimachus;59142956]

I read the links but certainly don't agree with them. God says that He will get 12,000 from each tribe.........WE CAN BE SURE HE WILL GET 12000 FROM EACH TRIBE. I don't really care what man says or thinks.......We have the Word of God to KNOW what will happen. Surely you believe that God could keep the lines pure.

People said that Israel would not be formed as a nation. They came up with replacement theology to help God keep His word. He didn't need help. They said Israel was a worthless desert, God said it would produce fruit. How'd that work out.

It's time for you to start believing what God said and quit following what men say. When you do that, you will have a better understanding of what will happen.

So you conclude that Babylon is spiritual so Israel must be spiritual. You conclude that Babylon will never be rebuilt because Jeremiah foretold that Babylon would not be rebuilt.

Well, I conclude that Jeremiahs prophecy was not just against the city of Babylon, but against the land of the Chaldeans.

Jer 50
1The word that the LORD spake against Babylon and against the land of the Chaldeans by Jeremiah the prophet.

I conclude that the City of Babylon was not destroyed by the sword but was abandoned. I conclude that Jeremiahs prophecy did not occur thousands of year ago, but is occurring right now. I conclude that Babylon is in the middle of a three part judgment. Right now, a great nation has come against Babylon. In the first phase the nations of the earth came from the farthest border to shoot at Babylon. This never happened before but occurred in Gulf War 1. The third phase of the judgment will occur when the Medes (the Kurds) destroy Babylon during the Day of the Lord.

Jer 50
41Behold, a people shall come from the north, and a great nation, and many kings shall be raised up from the coasts of the earth.

So you say that it is impossible to have literal Babylon and yet the truth is the judgment that you think has already happened is occurring right now. You might want to read Jeremiah 50 and 51 and Isaiah 13. You will see in Isaiah 13 that the Day of the Lord is near when this occurs. You might study what happened in Gulf War 1 and Gulf War 2. You might study and find that the city of Babylon was not destroyed by the sword but was abandoned.

You see, God will do exactly what he says he will do. He doesn't need any help to perform his word exactly like he says. So if you want to understand the Bible.......read..........exactly what it says.....and believe it.

I hate to say it Choosewisely, but you are reading the Bible carnally. In a perverted, literalistic way, not discerning the spiritual.

The Bible says just what it says, but it must be read in the Spirit. You are reading it with literalistic lenses--Jesuit Futurist theology.

What I have taught is not replacement theology. Israel has never been replaced---Israel has always been spiritual from its inception. The Jewish Nation has been replaced with new husbandmen (the church), but the vineyard, the house of Israel, has given to new husbandmen.

So what you are saying is that the literal city of Babylon in the Middle East is going to play a role in the last days?

Last time I checked, there is nobody over there but a museum. This is literalism to its nth degree.

"And I will render unto Babylon and to all the inhabitants of Chaldea all their evil that they have done in Zion in your sight, saith the LORD. Behold, I [am] against thee, O destroying mountain, saith the LORD, which destroyest all the earth: and I will stretch out mine hand upon thee, and roll thee down from the rocks, and will make thee a burnt mountain. And they shall not take of thee a stone for a corner, nor a stone for foundations; but thou shalt be desolate for ever, saith the LORD." (Jeremiah 51:26)​

Just like says.

"In their heat I will make their feasts, and I will make them drunken, that they may rejoice, and sleep a perpetual sleep, and not wake, saith the LORD. I will bring them down like lambs to the slaughter, like rams with he goats. How is Sheshach taken! and how is the praise of the whole earth surprised! how is Babylon become an astonishment among the nations! The sea is come up upon Babylon: she is covered with the multitude of the waves thereof. Her cities are a desolation, a dry land, and a wilderness, a land wherein no man dwelleth, neither doth any son of man pass thereby." (Jeremiah 51:39-43)​

Just like it says.

"And Babylon, the glory of kingdoms, the beauty of the Chaldees' excellency, shall be as when God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah. It shall never be inhabited, neither shall it be dwelt in from generation to generation: neither shall the Arabian pitch tent there; neither shall the shepherds make their fold there. But wild beasts of the desert shall lie there; and their houses shall be full of doleful creatures; and owls shall dwell there, and satyrs shall dance there. And the wild beasts of the islands shall cry in their desolate houses, and dragons in their pleasant palaces: and her time is near to come, and her days shall not be prolonged." (Isaiah 13:19-22)​

Just like it says.

Brother, I'm going to tell it to you straight:

YOU are BREAKING a fundamental rule in prophetic interpretation!

What is that fundamental rule?

That Law is "The Law of the World-Wide Symbolized by the Local"

The Old Testament was filled with stories in Local Palestine that TYPIFIED the World-Wide in the New Testament.

Old Testament Types:
-Old Jerusalem
-Earthly Sanctuary
-Earthly Priests
-Literal Babylon
-Ancient Israel - the Jewish Nation

New Testament Antitypes:
-New Jerusalem
-Heavenly Sanctuary
-Christ our High Priest in Heaven
-Spiritual World-Wide Babylon (apostasy--headed by the Papacy)
-Modern Israel - the Church (world-wide congregation)

By creating the rules that you, you make people turn their backs on God and focus on the earthly Middle East. In this way, Type always goes back to Type, Local always goes back to Local, and Literal always goes back to Literal. NO!

Type always transfers to Antitype, Local always transfers to Global, and Literal always transfers to Spiritual.

This is nothing but the Devils' COUNTERFEIT prophecy---a very prophecy devised by Satan himself to take the minds of individuals from the REAL issues.

I've got news for you Choose Wisely. I've got gigantic news! The things you see happening in the Middle East have NOTHING to do with God's end time prophecies. NOTHING! Get that through your head. It is the Devil's COUNTERFEIT prophecy to turn the eyes of men AWAY from the Pope of Rome and the United States.

The Sea Beast of Revelation 13 IS the Papacy.

The Lamb-Like Beast coming up out of the earth IS the United States of America.

The perfidious doctrines of Dispensational-Futurism throw all of these vital prophecies into some futuristic, fictitious 70th week so that the minds of men will be DISTRACTED from these truths, because Satan knows that if these things are understood, people will NOT be able to discern who the Antichrist is, or who the Lamb-Like Beast is, and therefore, will receive the MARK OF THE BEAST while they vainlessly have their eyes focused on the Middle East.

With all due respect, I say this with sincerity. I whole heartedly believe that all the events taking place in the Middle East is the Devil's counterfeit prophecy to divert the minds of Protestants and Christians around the world from the real issues that are taking place. And I make a call for all who are focussed on the Middle East to reconsider what I am saying, and go back to the drawing board. If it were possible for me to unveil all the things that are going on behind the scenes concerning the ecumenical movements regarding Rome and her Protestant daughters, your hairs would stand on end. It even gives me goosebumps at times. For example: Most people do not realize that all the events that are taking place in the Middle East were created and started by the Jesuit Order, as a chess piece on their New World Order game-plan, to distract the Protestant world away from her true agenda! I am SERIOUS! *wonders if perhaps he has revealed too much information...shudders*

Example: Albert Pike, a Freemason--(Freemasonry was started by the Jesuits, and so was the Illuminati)--in the year 1840 revealed a 3-World-War blueprint, and embedded in this 3-World-War blueprint for accomplishing the New World Order was to re-establish the state of Israel in Palestine after the 2nd World-War to create friction. From day one, the plan is based on Mark's and Engle's dialectic...thesis vs. antithesis = synthesis (chaos creates a need for peace)....re-establish a straw-man state of Israel, and irritate the Muslim world--have them destroy each other, and out of it comes synthesis!

The modern-State of Israel is just a pawn in the game...a critical piece being moved around the chess board by the Jesuits in command. The Jesuits know this, but they don't want the world to know it, because all the false Middle East prophecies are suiting their devilish purposes. They were responsible for creating the State of Israel. Albert Pike's blueprint in 1840 spelled out one of the purposes for World War II, and that it "was to be fomented by using the differences between Fascists and Political Zionists. This war was to be fought so that Nazism would be destroyed and the power of Political Zionism increased so that the sovereign state of Israel could be established in Palestine." (Guy Carr, Pawns in the Game, XIV, XV)

Let us raise the question: What year was the National State of Israel re-established?

Answer: 1948! Three years after World War II came to a close in 1945! Just as Albert Pike predicted! A Freemason! (goes to show that they are in control of the evils happening in this world! They have it all planned out!)

Israel's re-establishment in 1948 was not a divine act by God in the prophetic book. It was an act by the very anti-christ system itself, to 1. Create a distraction in prophetic interpretation to achieve an ultimate agenda in placing the Eye of Lucifer (check your dollar bill) on the Pyramid and establishing the New World Order, and 2. To irritate and provoke the Muslim World so that Israel and the Palestinians would destroy each-other, creating JUST the "synthesis" they have been looking for! This so called "re-establishment of the State of Israel" was not in favor of the Jews. It was to use them as a pawn to accomplish a much more evil agenda. All they accomplished was create a massive Middle-East crises, putting the Jews in jeopardy. It was an anti-semitic move by placing them in harm's way.

I know it might sound crazy, but I guarantee you....oh I guarantee you, I ain't whistling Dixie here. The information that I have in my possession comes from the HIGHEST sources in Freemasonry and from the Jesuit Order, and other secret societies. Much of this information is not even published on the Internet. You can't get sources from anything higher. They come from the highest of the highest.

So just what are the real issues? Here is just a glimpse:

1. The Papacy in Rome! (and her dogmas, and ever aggressive strides through global ecumenism, and world-power through the New World Order and Secret Societies established by the Jesuits)

2. The United States of America (the two-horned--lamb-like Beast of Revelation 13)--the smaller beast that will cause all to worship the FIRST beast before it (the Papacy).

The Middle East and a rebuilding of a third temple is NOTHING but a massive, and I mean MASSIVE distraction. The Devil wants us to focus on the Middle East so that our minds will be diverted from the real problems that we face in this world.

Oh that we may wake up before it is too late!

But how do we wake up to these things?

Answer:

Do not ignore the things I'm telling you. Put some trust and faith into what I am saying--that I do have such information. Read the books I recommend, listen to the audios and videos that I suggest, and study the materials thoroughly. Then you will see why I take the stand that I do on such issues. These issues I speak of are not trifling. They deserve considerable attention. If our view on Bible end-time Prophecy is wrong, many of us will be caught "un-awares" with overwhelming surprise.

CONCLUSION:

The Israel in the Middle East that you see today is NOT, and I repeat NOT a true nation! It is a PSEUDO-NATION, fabricated by the Zionistic powers controlled by the Illuminati and the Papacy. They are the ones that MADE the STRAW-MAN-STATE-OF-ISRAEL as chess piece to accomplish her world-wide agenda, and help to distract and deceive the masses from her real goals.

God had NOTHING to do with the re-establishment of the Israel you see today. It was a counterfeit re-establishment.

 

[SharonL]

Choose Wisely..

 

[Choose Wisely]

Lysimachus;59149237]

God had NOTHING to do with the re-establishment of the Israel you see today. It was a counterfeit re-establishment.

That is a very dangerous thing to say.

God said that Israel would be restored..........And Israel was restored........just like it says.

Lets see what God had to say about Israel.

In Ezekiel 4:3-6 God says he has appointed a day for a year and says to lay on the left side 390 days and on the right side 40 days. That totals 430 years. Daniel was taken into captivity in 606 BC and the Jews were allowed to return to the land from Babylon in 536 BC after Cyrus the Great walked into the city of Babylon in 539 BC. (Notice Cyrus did not come with the sword and destroy Babylon.)

If we take the 430 prophesied years and reduce it by the 70 years the Jews were in captivity we get 360 years. But only a few Jews returned to the land as instructed. God says in Leviticus 26:18 that if they do not obey He would punish them 7 times more for their sins.

7 times 360 years is 2520 years. Now convert those Biblical years (360days/yr) to our current year of 365.242 day/yr and we get 2483.8 years.

Starting at the year 536 BC when the Jews were instructed to return to the land and count off the 2583.8 years (be sure to realize there is not a year zero when converting BC to AD)

You will arrive at the year 1948. And if you do a little digging and get specific you will find out you will come out to May 15th, 1948.

God will do exactly what he says he will do and use who he chooses to complete his will.

I suggest you start listening exactly to what God has to say.

 

[Choose Wisely]

So what you are saying is that the literal city of Babylon in the Middle East is going to play a role in the last days?

Last time I checked, there is nobody over there but a museum. This is literalism to its nth degree.

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Did I say the City of Babylon, or did I say the land of the Caldeans .... just like the porphecy says? Notice the prophecy says.......CITIES. Last time I checked the land of the Chaldeans was inhabited. Last time I checked there was a war going on in the land of the Chaldeans. Last time I checked in Gulf War 1 nations came from the farthest borders to attack the land of the Chaldeans. Last time I checked in Gulf war 2 a great nation was attacking Babylon. Last time I checked we are close to the Day of the Lord.

No, I do not expect the city of Babylon to be rebuilt.....Babylon is in JUDGMENT..........JUST LIKE IT SAYS.

 

[SharonL]

Choose Wisely - you are doing a beautiful job - keep it up - following right along with you.