What about the Christians who say they know

[Cieza]

It is my understanding that Christianity is strictly a faith based religion and not a fact based religion. Thus once something becomes based on knowledge or facts and not based on faith, then it is not applicable to Christianity.

I've met some Christians who claim they know they're going to heaven after they die. This seems to fly in the face of Christianity being a faith based religion, as they are asserting they have facts that they will go to heaven.

Can anyone reconcile this?

 

[abysmul]

I'm not one of them that say that, so sorry. For what it's worth, I read and understand the scriptures to say that there will be a judgement for us all. I can not reconcile that Judgement with "I'm guaranteed to get to Heaven".

 

[TomZzyzx]

It is my understanding that Christianity is strictly a faith based religion and not a fact based religion. Thus once something becomes based on knowledge or facts and not based on faith, then it is not applicable to Christianity.

I've met some Christians who claim they know they're going to heaven after they die. This seems to fly in the face of Christianity being a faith based religion, as they are asserting they have facts that they will go to heaven.

Can anyone reconcile this?

You are mistaken, Christianity is not a faith based religion. It is based on the facts of the bible and what the bible says about Jesus. Romans 10:9 tells us what is needed to be saved, "that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved." (Romans 10:9 NKJV)

 

[drich0150]

It is my understanding that Christianity is strictly a faith based religion and not a fact based religion. Thus once something becomes based on knowledge or facts and not based on faith, then it is not applicable to Christianity.

I've met some Christians who claim they know they're going to heaven after they die. This seems to fly in the face of Christianity being a faith based religion, as they are asserting they have facts that they will go to heaven.

Can anyone reconcile this?

It seems that you do not understand the concept of a verified faith, nor understand the true nature of a "fact."

A faith simply put is a belief in an unknown (not unknowable) truth.

A fact is a statement that can either be proved or disproved. Truth has no bearing on the status of a fact.

So yes Christianity is a faith based religion. as we can never know All the truths of God. Yet at the same time we can be privy to parts of the truth and it not contradict our faith.

A faith in facts is still a faith. A faith in ever changing facts still requires belief in the unknown or even the unknowable.

When faith and faith in facts becomes a problem for the believer is when, "Faith" is trumped by Faith in Facts.

 

[Merlinius]

It is my understanding that Christianity is strictly a faith based religion and not a fact based religion. Thus once something becomes based on knowledge or facts and not based on faith, then it is not applicable to Christianity.

I've met some Christians who claim they know they're going to heaven after they die. This seems to fly in the face of Christianity being a faith based religion, as they are asserting they have facts that they will go to heaven.

Can anyone reconcile this?

Christ was "in Heaven" while standing on the earth;

(Joh 3:13) And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, eventhe Son of man which is in heaven.

We are with Christ now in Heaven.

(Eph 2:6) And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

Because where He is we are also;

(Joh 17:24) Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.

(Mat 28:20) Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

(Heb 13:5) Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.

And this is the proof;

(Joh 13:35) By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.

No need to wait to see if that is true lol. The Proof is in our present Life.

Is it a fact that we love one another as Christ Loves us? One doesn't need "Faith" to know whether or not that is a "Fact"

In Love,
Merlin

 

[Faulty]

1 John 5:13
"I writethese things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life."


Assurance of our salvation is is biblical concept, and it is a mark towards maturity in the faith. Peter, James, and John tended to give ample ways for one to know they are indeed in the faith because the nature of the person changes, being literally new creation, and it's in the traits of this new nature described where we are able to test ourselves (2 Cor 13:5) to recognize if we have indeed been saved or not.

1 John is a great book to read on this where the traits of a true believer are contrasted with the traits of an unbeliever. It's by these traits, John is able to proclaim that we can KNOW about our salvation.

But if one cannot recognize themselves in those chapters, they have no reason to be assured at all, no matter what they think might have happened in the past. Jesus tells a parable of the soils and tells of a type of soil where one receives the Word gladly, endures for a time, then falls away. These people were never born again, but rather followed in their emotions only, for they were "glad" in what they heard. Perseverence is a sign of the truely saved. The fallen-away were never saved and have no reason, other than their own pride, to think otherwise.

 

[ViaCrucis]

It is my understanding that Christianity is strictly a faith based religion and not a fact based religion. Thus once something becomes based on knowledge or facts and not based on faith, then it is not applicable to Christianity.

I've met some Christians who claim they know they're going to heaven after they die. This seems to fly in the face of Christianity being a faith based religion, as they are asserting they have facts that they will go to heaven.

Can anyone reconcile this?

I think you've set up the wrong dichotomy. A better dichotomy would be between faith and certainty. Not faith and facts. We take it on faith that it is a fact that Christ raised from the dead. Certainty isn't possible, but if we didn't have hope and faith that Christ's resurrection was true and factual then that faith would be pointless.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[razeontherock]

Christ was "in Heaven" while standing on the earth;

(Joh 3:13) And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, eventhe Son of man which is in heaven.

We are with Christ now in Heaven.

(Eph 2:6) And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

Because where He is we are also;

(Joh 17:24) Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.

(Mat 28:20) Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

(Heb 13:5) Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.

And this is the proof;

(Joh 13:35) By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.

No need to wait to see if that is true lol. The Proof is in our present Life.

Is it a fact that we love one another as Christ Loves us? One doesn't need "Faith" to know whether or not that is a "Fact"

In Love,
Merlin

Off to a good start (Even with a Wizard's name )

I add to the mix that certainty is possible and refer one to "beautific vision," which should be referenceable online.(?)

 

[hedrick]

Christianity is based on faith, but I think what you're hearing is the wrong definition of faith. Faith in the Christian sense is trusting God and following him. What does it mean in English when you say "I have faith in you"? It doesn't mean that you're sure the person exists (although it would obviously be hard to have faith in someone who doesn't), but rather that you trust them and rely on them.

There are certainly many Christians who see faith as a way to avoiding looking at evidence. "Well I just have faith" is fairly common among Christians when they can't answer a question. However that's not a Biblical use of faith. Faith does mean relying on God even in situations where there are pressures not to. After all, things happen in our lives that make it difficult for us to follow through on any of our commitments, whether to God or to others. We get discouraged, or some pressures push us to deny our commitment. But this only makes sense if the commitment was sound in the first place.

Practically: sure, we continue to trust God even where we don't understand a lot of things. But I believe there needs to be a reason to trust him in the first place. And eventually when evidence starts to pile up we need to reconsider what we believe about God.

Christians don't agree on how we handle evidence. When dealing with things like evolution I've had Christians tell me that nothing outside the Bible should ever affect our faith. So no matter how clear it was that a literal interpretation of the Bible is wrong, God said it and that ends the discussion. I don't believe that. I hold the classical Christian approach, which referred to "two books", Scripture and God's creation. Both give us information about God, and we can use both. So I am strongly committed to evidence, in theology, in interpreting Scripture, in science. This includes scientific evidence, evidence from history and scholarship, and evidence from the experience of the Christian community (as well as the broader community). Not all Christians are the same way. Indeed I think there are areas in which most Christians in the US ignore evidence. But it doesn't have to be that way.

 

[golgotha61]

It is my understanding that Christianity is strictly a faith based religion and not a fact based religion. Thus once something becomes based on knowledge or facts and not based on faith, then it is not applicable to Christianity.

I've met some Christians who claim they know they're going to heaven after they die. This seems to fly in the face of Christianity being a faith based religion, as they are asserting they have facts that they will go to heaven.

Can anyone reconcile this?

Christianity is based on faith and fact. To say it is based on faith alone would cause a problem with the fact that the apostles, for instance, factually knew Christ as a real person because they lived with him, factually knew His miracles were authentic because they experienced them, factually knew He rose from the dead because they saw, touched Him, and spoke with Him, etc.

These factual based beliefs are transferred to us in the New Testament gospels and epistles. These narratives were written to provide us with the facts of Christ's life, death, and resurrection. John,as one axample says this:1 John 1:1 (NCV) 1 We write you now about what has always existed, which we have heard, we have seen with our own eyes, we have looked at, and we have touched with our hands. We write to you about the Word that gives life.


One of the faith beliefs is my salvation being complete because of the death of Christ in my place. I believe this is true and I take it by faith and trust in the truthfulness of the Word of God.

 

[Cieza]

I'm not one of them that say that, so sorry. For what it's worth, I read and understand the scriptures to say that there will be a judgement for us all. I can not reconcile that Judgement with "I'm guaranteed to get to Heaven".

Are you saying you know there will be a judgement for us all? Or do you merely have faith that there will be judgement for all?

 

[Cieza]

You are mistaken, Christianity is not a faith based religion. It is based on the facts of the bible and what the bible says about Jesus. Romans 10:9 tells us what is needed to be saved, "that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved." (Romans 10:9 NKJV)

Upon what basis do you come to the conclusion that the Bible is a book of facts?

Do you know as a fact that what is said in Romans 10:9 is the truth? Or is this something you take on faith?

 

[Cieza]

It seems that you do not understand the concept of a verified faith, nor understand the true nature of a "fact."

A faith simply put is a belief in an unknown (not unknowable) truth.

How can a faith be verified if the faith is in something which cannot be proven or known?

A fact is a statement that can either be proved or disproved. Truth has no bearing on the status of a fact.

So yes Christianity is a faith based religion. as we can never know All the truths of God. Yet at the same time we can be privy to parts of the truth and it not contradict our faith.

If I follow along correctly, if 9 out of 10 aspects of Christianity or God are known factually to you and the tenth aspect is taken on faith, then you are still operating with a faith based religion. Correct?

If correct, then this doesn't seem much like a faith based religion to me. It seems like a hybrid of reality and faith.

 

[Cieza]

Christ was "in Heaven" while standing on the earth;

What evidence do you have that this is true?

What exactly do you mean by "Heaven"?

We are with Christ now in Heaven.

Is this something you know as a fact? If so, please describe how you became factually aware of this?

No need to wait to see if that is true lol. The Proof is in our present Life.

Is it a fact that we love one another as Christ Loves us? One doesn't need "Faith" to know whether or not that is a "Fact"

What evidence do you have that Christ loves us?

 

[Cieza]

I think you've set up the wrong dichotomy. A better dichotomy would be between faith and certainty. Not faith and facts. We take it on faith that it is a fact that Christ raised from the dead. Certainty isn't possible, but if we didn't have hope and faith that Christ's resurrection was true and factual then that faith would be pointless.

-CryptoLutheran

If you know as a fact that Christ was resurrected, then you wouldn't have faith (or belief without proof) that it happened.

 

[Cieza]

Christianity is based on faith, but I think what you're hearing is the wrong definition of faith. Faith in the Christian sense is trusting God and following him. What does it mean in English when you say "I have faith in you"? It doesn't mean that you're sure the person exists (although it would obviously be hard to have faith in someone who doesn't), but rather that you trust them and rely on them.

I appreciate your response. It seems as if you have a somewhat better understanding of where I'm coming from. That being said, what exactly does it mean to trust God and to follow him? To minimize the likelihood that the answer will be confusing, please respond in secular terms. Thanks.

There are certainly many Christians who see faith as a way to avoiding looking at evidence. "Well I just have faith" is fairly common among Christians when they can't answer a question. However that's not a Biblical use of faith. Faith does mean relying on God even in situations where there are pressures not to. After all, things happen in our lives that make it difficult for us to follow through on any of our commitments, whether to God or to others. We get discouraged, or some pressures push us to deny our commitment. But this only makes sense if the commitment was sound in the first place.

Practically: sure, we continue to trust God even where we don't understand a lot of things. But I believe there needs to be a reason to trust him in the first place. And eventually when evidence starts to pile up we need to reconsider what we believe about God.

Can you please explain what it means to "trust God". How can one trust something that cannot be seen or heard?

Christians don't agree on how we handle evidence. When dealing with things like evolution I've had Christians tell me that nothing outside the Bible should ever affect our faith. So no matter how clear it was that a literal interpretation of the Bible is wrong, God said it and that ends the discussion. I don't believe that. I hold the classical Christian approach, which referred to "two books", Scripture and God's creation. Both give us information about God, and we can use both. So I am strongly committed to evidence, in theology, in interpreting Scripture, in science. This includes scientific evidence, evidence from history and scholarship, and evidence from the experience of the Christian community (as well as the broader community). Not all Christians are the same way. Indeed I think there are areas in which most Christians in the US ignore evidence. But it doesn't have to be that way.

Can you explain why most Christians don't appear willing to critically examine their faith and/or their belief in a fully omniscient & omnipotent being?

 

[Cieza]

Christianity is based on faith and fact. To say it is based on faith alone would cause a problem with the fact that the apostles, for instance, factually knew Christ as a real person because they lived with him, factually knew His miracles were authentic because they experienced them, factually knew He rose from the dead because they saw, touched Him, and spoke with Him, etc.

These factual based beliefs are transferred to us in the New Testament gospels and epistles. These narratives were written to provide us with the facts of Christ's life, death, and resurrection. John,as one axample says this:1 John 1:1 (NCV) 1 We write you now about what has always existed, which we have heard, we have seen with our own eyes, we have looked at, and we have touched with our hands. We write to you about the Word that gives life.


One of the faith beliefs is my salvation being complete because of the death of Christ in my place. I believe this is true and I take it by faith and trust in the truthfulness of the Word of God.

Perhaps I should reword my question. Is Christianity based on faith or on reality?

 

[abysmul]

Are you saying you know there will be a judgement for us all? Or do you merely have faith that there will be judgement for all?

Yes.

 

[abysmul]

Perhaps I should reword my question. Is Christianity based on faith or on reality?

Yes, both.

 

[elman]

1 John 5:13
"I writethese things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life."


Assurance of our salvation is is biblical concept, and it is a mark towards maturity in the faith. Peter, James, and John tended to give ample ways for one to know they are indeed in the faith because the nature of the person changes, being literally new creation, and it's in the traits of this new nature described where we are able to test ourselves (2 Cor 13:5) to recognize if we have indeed been saved or not.

1 John is a great book to read on this where the traits of a true believer are contrasted with the traits of an unbeliever. It's by these traits, John is able to proclaim that we can KNOW about our salvation.

But if one cannot recognize themselves in those chapters, they have no reason to be assured at all, no matter what they think might have happened in the past. Jesus tells a parable of the soils and tells of a type of soil where one receives the Word gladly, endures for a time, then falls away. These people were never born again, but rather followed in their emotions only, for they were "glad" in what they heard. Perseverence is a sign of the truely saved. The fallen-away were never saved and have no reason, other than their own pride, to think otherwise.

However the goats in Matt 25 knew they were saved--but they were wrong.