OK what do we think about ghosts?

[artybloke]

Who was Jesus speaking to when he encountered the possessed?

Jesus lived in a time when people believed that mental illness was demon possession. So he was speaking to the mentally ill person in the language both they and he would have understood.

 

[artybloke]

Yes, and something came out of the tombs when the veil of the temple was split.

Poetic description does not count as evidence of the supernatural.

 

[Amber the Duskbringer]

So if we are going to discount it as mental illness, would that also discount the witnessing of angels too? Or other paranormal phenomena in the bible?

 

[artybloke]

Why should we accept something as factual just because it's in the Bible?

 

[Amber the Duskbringer]

I am just going under the assumption most here would believe just that However I am not calling ya out personally, just askin a question to keep this thread alive ^__^

 

[Matariki]

Jesus lived in a time when people believed that mental illness was demon possession. So he was speaking to the mentally ill person in the language both they and he would have understood.

If believe that Jesus was more than capable of telling the differences between the demonically possessed and the mentally ill.

Mark 5:1-20
Jesus Heals a Man with a Demon

They came to the other side of the sea, to the country of the Gerasenes. And when Jesus had stepped out of the boat, immediately there met him out of the tombs a man with an unclean spirit. He lived among the tombs. And no one could bind him anymore, not even with a chain, for he had often been bound with shackles and chains, but he wrenched the chains apart, and he broke the shackles in pieces. No one had the strength to subdue him. Night and day among the tombs and on the mountains he was always crying out and cutting himself with stones. And when he saw Jesus from afar, he ran and fell down before him. And crying out with a loud voice, he said, "What have you to do with me, Jesus, Son of the Most High God? I adjure you by God, do not torment me." For he was saying to him, "Come out of the man, you unclean spirit!" And Jesus asked him, "What is your name?" He replied, "My name is Legion, for we are many." And he begged him earnestly not to send them out of the country. Now a great herd of pigs was feeding there on the hillside, and they begged him, saying, "Send us to the pigs; let us enter them." So he gave them permission. And the unclean spirits came out, and entered the pigs, and the herd, numbering about two thousand, rushed down the steep bank into the sea and were drowned in the sea. The herdsmen fled and told it in the city and in the country. And people came to see what it was that had happened. And they came to Jesus and saw the demon-possessed man, the one who had had the legion, sitting there, clothed and in his right mind, and they were afraid. And those who had seen it described to them what had happened to the demon-possessed man and to the pigs. And they began to beg Jesus to depart from their region. As he was getting into the boat, the man who had been possessed with demons begged him that he might be with him. And he did not permit him but said to him, "Go home to your friends and tell them how much the Lord has done for you, and how he has had mercy on you." And he went away and began to proclaim in the Decapolis how much Jesus had done for him, and everyone marveled.

I don't know about you, but from reading this it doesn't sound like a case of multiple personality disorder or schizophrenia. In cases of demon possession, individuals were given attributes not natural to their being, the bible is clear to mention that.

 

[artybloke]

I don't know about you, but from reading this it doesn't sound like a case of multiple personality disorder or schizophrenia.

Well it wouldn't, would it? The account in Mark was written 30 years at least after any possible event that it might refer to, if indeed it was an event rather than a legend that Mark picked up on.

 

[woodpecker]

there are many people who have witnessed demonic activity,and had more than one witness, were they all mentally ill?

The supernatural is very real, if you believe in Jesus, you believe in the supernatural, or are all Christians mentally ill?

My grandfather came to me in my dream, I was mourning the death of my grandparents, it was so real, ...my grandfather told me to rejoice, be happy for he and my grandmother were extremely happy.

My father in-law had a visit from his aunt after her death, who raised him, saying the same.

 

[artybloke]

there are many people who have witnessed demonic activity,and had more than one witness, were they all mentally ill?

No, they saw what they're religion programmed them to see.

 

[artybloke]

And believing in the possibility of the supernatural shouldn't give you the license to believe in any old crock that passes itself off as - whoooo! supernatural! ghostly!!!

 

[Amber the Duskbringer]

I believe in the idea of debunking most things. Jumping at the thing and calling it casper helps noone and neither does calling out people who believe in the supernatural as all being that way.

 

[Timothew]

there are many people who have witnessed demonic activity,and had more than one witness, were they all mentally ill?

The supernatural is very real, if you believe in Jesus, you believe in the supernatural, or are all Christians mentally ill?

My grandfather came to me in my dream, I was mourning the death of my grandparents, it was so real, ...my grandfather told me to rejoice, be happy for he and my grandmother were extremely happy.

My father in-law had a visit from his aunt after her death, who raised him, saying the same.

It's real because you dreamed it?

Once I dreamed a hamburger was eating me!

 

[Amber the Duskbringer]

I guess we can lump the visions of the Lord in with all of this. I mean it's only a dream or a hallucination right? I mean the Lord did rise from the death, fed thousands with fish and bread. Surely you wouldn't just label him a therapist for simply curing them of a mental disorder. At what point do we stop debunking and admit to the possibility that demons can be real and among those unfortunate enough to deal with them?

 

[artybloke]

At what point do we stop debunking and admit to the possibility that demons can be real and among those unfortunate enough to deal with them?

__________________
Dunno - how about when we actually see some kind of evidence that isn't just anecdotal?

 

[Amber the Duskbringer]

__________________
Dunno - how about when we actually see some kind of evidence that isn't just anecdotal?

I see the seeker symbol, I take you also apply that to being christian? Just checking

 

[Timothew]

I guess we can lump the visions of the Lord in with all of this. I mean it's only a dream or a hallucination right? I mean the Lord did rise from the death, fed thousands with fish and bread. Surely you wouldn't just label him a therapist for simply curing them of a mental disorder. At what point do we stop debunking and admit to the possibility that demons can be real and among those unfortunate enough to deal with them?

The difference is that people actually saw the Lord. They didn't claim he rose from the dead because they dreamed that he rose from the dead. (I mean the 5000 Paul refers to, and the apostles who saw and ate with Jesus. I don't mean the current visions of Jesus on a piece of toast or whatever.)

What happens in a dream is not an eyewitness account.

 

[Amber the Duskbringer]

The difference is that people actually saw the Lord. They didn't claim he rose from the dead because they dreamed that he rose from the dead.

What happens in a dream is not an eyewitness account.

But you didn't so my point still stands.

 

[Timothew]

But you didn't so my point still stands.

I actually agree with you:

I believe in the idea of debunking most things. Jumping at the thing and calling it casper helps noone and neither does calling out people who believe in the supernatural as all being that way.

 

[artybloke]

I see the seeker symbol, I take you also apply that to being christian? Just checking

None of the Gospel accounts are actually eyewitness accounts either. I'm afraid I'm with Bultmann on that one.

 

[Amber the Duskbringer]

I know but I also like to play devil's advocate on occasion as well I think that so many are willing to dismiss ghosts and demons but quick to accept the incredibly implausible things in the bible.

Keeps the thread interesting