Holiness

[Gregory Thompson]

I've never made it personal as such as been done to me. I discuss the issues, I don't jump on the person.

Well you'd be an exception then. Our objection to all of this and bias is regarding the other 99.9999995% people we've met with the same bias and the way they're really nice . but their love is conditional to agreement with certain concepts . not that it cannot happen, it's just so rare, don't expect anyone online to buy it .

 

[from scratch]

It is focusing on not sinning as opposed to focusing on doing the right thing, and preaching that message which makes us enemies to the cross.

Well stated.

 

[from scratch]

The apostles taught us to do good things and not to do bad things so your argument don't sound right.


Eph_4:28 Let him that stole steal no more: but rather let him labour, working with his hands the thing which is good, that he may have to give to him that needeth

Yes but your focus seems to be stealing where as the pro grace person doesn't even think about it. There is no dwelling on it. I did't say they're not tempted and can't fall (sin). Some are more affected by vanity than others. I have no desire for your stuff. I might find it usefull and therefore aquire (purchase) something similar or build it my self. These days need is more a motivating factor for me. It (need) has always been a more primary factor in my life.

 

[from scratch]

Saying that is like saying Jesus and the apostles are enemies of the cross.

Don't follow you at all here.

 

[from scratch]

That's what i believe also, but that doesn't explain how teaching to not do bad things makes someone an enemy of the cross. I would think the opposite would be true.

Isn't the teaching of love good enough? Do you really have to be told what you don't like being done to you?

 

[from scratch]

Not really.



If you disagree then I'd challenge you find a passage in the NT that contradicts this. But then again I don't place bets on the texts being perfectly accurate, nor on the infalliblity of any man.

Mat 23:26 is excellent in regards to how holiness is expressed in the flesh by the Christian.

 

[JRSut1000]

Then it wouldn't be the whole gospel message! God does show us throughout Scriptures both in OT and NT, what love looks like when played out.

 

[JRSut1000]

God also shows us what love is not. We DO need both. God wouldn't have given us the whole of the Bible if we didn't need it. Anything God says is important and should not be dismissed.

 

[Sieben]

is sinning holy?

lols

 

[JRSut1000]

I don't think anyone here is advocating that we willfully sin, but yet by dismissing God's instructions, any of them, it is much easier to commit sins of ignorance. But is it merely sins of ignorance (not knowing) if we choose not to look at such instructions and apply it to our lives?

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

It is focusing on not sinning as opposed to focusing on doing the right thing, and preaching that message which makes us enemies to the cross.

Saying that is like saying Jesus and the apostles are enemies of the cross.

Love your enemies

Lazarus and the Rich Man - Here a little, there a little - Commentary

Romans 11:28 According indeed to the Good-Message, enemies because of ye,
according to yet the choice, beloveds because of the fathers.

Luke 6:35 Morely be loving thine enemies and be doing good, and be lending, nothing expecting, and shall be the wages of ye much,
and ye shall be sons of Most-High, that He good/kind upon the ungrateful and wicked.
[Proverbs 25:22/Romans 12:20]

Romans 12:20 Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink
for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head. [Prove 25:22]

 

[New_Wineskin]

What is it?

I ask because some seem to say holiness and righteosuness aren't the same thing.

No one will see God without holiness and yet righteousness is discussed in Scripture to imply holiness? I think there is more than one meaning of holiness or being holy. What do you think?

I think there is only one meaning torighteousness.

Looking at the context of both in the Scriptures , there is either little difference or they are so interconnected that they are one and the same . Overall , most of the passages dealing with holy as a people are such as how the Lord has set them apart and made them His own - a person's state by the Lord bringing them into His care . Righteousness has to do with how the person is in standing in their relationship - state of how the person is living .

All in all , too little difference for concern .

 

[from scratch]

Throughout Scriptures, people either pray for the way they should go, or God desires to direct them in the ways they should go. But hasn't He already shown us in so many ways the ways we should go? What we should be doing? What we shouldn't be doing? Thoughout the scriptures, He shows us what we should/should not be doing for our own good and for His glory and purposes. He HAS shown us what is good and still shows us what is good. Why throw out what He knows is good for us? Nothing He ever commands whether in the OT, the NT, or directly to our lives now - none of it is evil, everything He says is good.

What needs to be done? Does one have to go through the 613 laws found in the law and make a personal statement on each one to drive home the idea that they simply have no desire to perform the shalt nots of the law as a Christian. I think that this lack of desire comes from within a person by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit for the Christian.

I can't speak for the unregenerate in this matter. It is that I also see this coming from inside a person. I will say that some are more given to evil than others. What better genes? I dunno.

It does contribute to more difficulty in reaching them for Jesus. The lack of holiness on the part of church goers makes it even more difficult to reach these people for Jesus. I too have no need of the behavior exhibited by most church goers who call themselves Christians. Holiness is a very real issue.

 

[from scratch]

I"m off to the temple tomorrow, to be reminded of how sinful the flesh is, over and over again, year after year, day after day, 10:11..see ya....


Heb 10:3 But in those sacrifices there is a reminder of sins year by year.

Hey did you find the Temple?

 

[JRSut1000]

The lack of desire to obey God comes from self, not the Holy Spirit. To want to disobey God is unholy. And I'm sure we've all been there, but that doesnt' mean we shouldn't obey Him. The Holy Spirit prompts us to obey, never to disobey.

I think when someone views the law as ugly and damaging rather than given by God, it's going to look like a drudgery. But King David said 'oh how I love Your Law" and even Paul said the law is holy.

 

[from scratch]

If you truly understood the cross, you would not be about law, read Gal 3:1, and 5:24, and Col 1:22...it is done there.....God sees us holy!


New American Standard Bible (©1995)
1;22yet He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach--

 

[fhansen]

Then it wouldn't be the whole gospel message! God does show us throughout Scriptures both in OT and NT, what love looks like when played out.

I think that's what this is all about. The Law teaches us what holiness "looks like", maybe in a rather crude way, but only because humankind was somewhat cruder-or less mature and experienced corporately speaking- when the Law was first given. But in any case, to simply cloak oneself with the Law, to obey it without grace, is to attempt to be righteousness by my own power, and is a crude attempt to be holy, without truly being holy. And truly being holy means simply to love as God does, as we're told we must, through which the Law happens to be fulfilled. IOW, we don't obey the Law to be holy, rather we need Gods holiness-we need God- in order to obey the Law, in order for us to be holy. But this isn't automatic, we don't become saints overnight. It's a day by day, sometimes grueling, continuous commitment or re-commitment to God on our part as evidenced by the way we live our lives. It's not either/or-either grace or works-it's both/and.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

The lack of desire to obey God comes from self, not the Holy Spirit. To want to disobey God is unholy. And I'm sure we've all been there, but that doesnt' mean we shouldn't obey Him. The Holy Spirit prompts us to obey, never to disobey.

I think when someone views the law as ugly and damaging rather than given by God, it's going to look like a drudgery. But King David said 'oh how I love Your Law" and even Paul said the law is holy.

The desire to obey comes from the flesh wanting to prove it's good enough to be with God . this attitude nullifies the power of the cross .

Therefore, the risen life must be the reason and source for transformation not the deadness of the old written code .

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Hey did you find the Temple?

Umm, it hasn't been built yet

http://www.christianforums.com/t7586672/
Why has the Temple not been rebuilt?

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD

..............The day on which Titus encompassed Jerusalem, was the feast of the Passover.............
　
.......The Temple now presented little more than a heap of ruins............

 

[fhansen]

This is how St Basil put it:

If we turn away from evil out of fear of punishment, we are in the position of slaves. If we pursue the enticement of wages, . . . we resemble mercenaries. Finally if we obey for the sake of the good itself and out of love for him who commands . . . we are in the position of children.