These things confuse me

[Migdala]

I saw a video a few days ago that bothered me. It was from a guy I subscribe to his videos on YouTube. In the video, he talks about how he thought he was a good Christian his whole life, but then he died from a heart attack. He stood in front of God, and He said He was going to send him to Hell because He had not told enough people about Him. Maybe God considered him lukewarm, idk.

That video really bothered me because I struggle with coming up with ways to spread the gospel myself-I never know how to start a conversation about God in order to witness, which is what we are all commanded to do-share the gospel of Jesus Christ.

So as I am pondering this video, a friend of mine called me. This girl is one of the strongest Christians I know-she is very involved in her church, has a very strong gift of prophecy and deliverance, and prays for hours for people.....

But she called me and told me that a couple of weeks ago she had a vision that she was standing at the edge of Hell, in front of God. And God was going to send her to Hell because He said she did not love Him with all her heart!

That really freaked me out because I have always thought this girl was a strong, strong Christian-one I turn to whenever I myself need prayer!

I myself had a very vivid vision at the end of last year that was very similar.....

So, as Christians, what do we need to do in order to go to Heaven? Of course I know that we must believe in Jesus....but these two people (and myself) had these visions and experiences that God has given them that really makes me wonder who exactly is going to make it to Heaven?

The examples we are given in the Bible of prior "end times" include Noah and the flood, and Sodom and Gomorrah. During the flood, only 8 people were saved in the entire world! And only 1 was saved out of Sodom and Gomorrah (would have been 2, but Lot's wife looked back and turned to salt). We have no clue how many people lived there, but it was probably a good amount I'm sure.

Point I'm trying to make is that out of all the people in the world, how many do we honestly think will make it to Heaven when they die, or when Jesus comes back? Jesus says that "Many are called, but few are chosen!" and the flood and what happened to Sodom and Gomorrah are a type of example.....I think maybe it is telling us that NOT MANY are actually going to make it to Heaven!

How can we even know when we are in right standing with the Lord God? My friend, and the guy in the video seemed to be such good strong Christians, and they both thought they were in right standing with God because of their belief in Jesus, and their ministries, church involvement, relationship with God, etc. etc....

The thought of being separated from God for all eternity is the most terrifying thing I can imagine! I have struggled with doubts of my own salvation for 4 years now, and hearing about those two experiences of the people I mentioned, as well as my own vision last year scares me so much! I am so thankful that I am still alive, that God is giving me (and all of us here!) more chances to turn to Him completely......

What can we do? How can we know we are on our way to Heaven if these other two people thought they were right with God and had the experiences they had? According to these experiences these two people (and myself) had, one was not going to Heaven because he did not tell enough people about Jesus......God allowed him to come back, and this guy spends every minute available spreading the word, making videos, etc. I really like him-his videos are short and to the point, and he is so devoted to God, he makes a new video nearly every single day!

And then my friend who God showed her that He was sending her to Hell because she did not love Him enough, even though she thought she was a strong Christian who had great spiritual gifts and ministries and spent so much time helping others and involved in her church and had a strong relationship with the Lord Jesus.

This scares me so much. I so badly want to be assured I am going to Heaven when I die, but I don't know what to think now, after hearing of these two people's experiences.

 

[.Iona.]

Accepting and believing in Jesus Christ and the Cross is the only way we can get into Heaven.

We will never be good enough for God - He knows that, and yet loves us anyway. We will all have times where we fail God, and He will always have us back. God knows what is in your heart.

The Bible says everything you need to know - following that and you will be safe for eternity.

 

[dodolah]

Just because they are good and strong christians, it does not mean that their understanding of the principle of christianity can never be wrong. Salvation comes from the lord Jesus alone. It is thru his sacrifice on the cross that we become healed and saved.

Jesus never say that salvation comes from our good deeds. Salvation comes first then good deeds follow next. Not the other way around. You accept Jesus with all of your heart and soul. You believe in His sacrifice and His divinity. Thru His love we become perfected. We slowly changed by His mercy and love to become like Christ, Himself. You see, obedience and good deeds comes AFTERWARD as a gesture of our appreciation of his salvation, NOT as a ticket to salvation. I hope that makes sense.

 

[Thankful For Grace]

Christ is our Savior; He is mighty to save and worthy of all trust. It is by grace we are saved through faith in Him--may all who call on His Name walk in victory over fear during the coming days and years.

Tfg

I saw a video a few days ago that bothered me. It was from a guy I subscribe to his videos on YouTube. In the video, he talks about how he thought he was a good Christian his whole life, but then he died from a heart attack. He stood in front of God, and He said He was going to send him to Hell because He had not told enough people about Him. Maybe God considered him lukewarm, idk.

That video really bothered me because I struggle with coming up with ways to spread the gospel myself-I never know how to start a conversation about God in order to witness, which is what we are all commanded to do-share the gospel of Jesus Christ.

So as I am pondering this video, a friend of mine called me. This girl is one of the strongest Christians I know-she is very involved in her church, has a very strong gift of prophecy and deliverance, and prays for hours for people.....

But she called me and told me that a couple of weeks ago she had a vision that she was standing at the edge of Hell, in front of God. And God was going to send her to Hell because He said she did not love Him with all her heart!

That really freaked me out because I have always thought this girl was a strong, strong Christian-one I turn to whenever I myself need prayer!

I myself had a very vivid vision at the end of last year that was very similar.....

So, as Christians, what do we need to do in order to go to Heaven? Of course I know that we must believe in Jesus....but these two people (and myself) had these visions and experiences that God has given them that really makes me wonder who exactly is going to make it to Heaven?

The examples we are given in the Bible of prior "end times" include Noah and the flood, and Sodom and Gomorrah. During the flood, only 8 people were saved in the entire world! And only 1 was saved out of Sodom and Gomorrah (would have been 2, but Lot's wife looked back and turned to salt). We have no clue how many people lived there, but it was probably a good amount I'm sure.

Point I'm trying to make is that out of all the people in the world, how many do we honestly think will make it to Heaven when they die, or when Jesus comes back? Jesus says that "Many are called, but few are chosen!" and the flood and what happened to Sodom and Gomorrah are a type of example.....I think maybe it is telling us that NOT MANY are actually going to make it to Heaven!

How can we even know when we are in right standing with the Lord God? My friend, and the guy in the video seemed to be such good strong Christians, and they both thought they were in right standing with God because of their belief in Jesus, and their ministries, church involvement, relationship with God, etc. etc....

The thought of being separated from God for all eternity is the most terrifying thing I can imagine! I have struggled with doubts of my own salvation for 4 years now, and hearing about those two experiences of the people I mentioned, as well as my own vision last year scares me so much! I am so thankful that I am still alive, that God is giving me (and all of us here!) more chances to turn to Him completely......

What can we do? How can we know we are on our way to Heaven if these other two people thought they were right with God and had the experiences they had? According to these experiences these two people (and myself) had, one was not going to Heaven because he did not tell enough people about Jesus......God allowed him to come back, and this guy spends every minute available spreading the word, making videos, etc. I really like him-his videos are short and to the point, and he is so devoted to God, he makes a new video nearly every single day!

And then my friend who God showed her that He was sending her to Hell because she did not love Him enough, even though she thought she was a strong Christian who had great spiritual gifts and ministries and spent so much time helping others and involved in her church and had a strong relationship with the Lord Jesus.

This scares me so much. I so badly want to be assured I am going to Heaven when I die, but I don't know what to think now, after hearing of these two people's experiences.

 

[Angelfrog]

Just because they are good and strong christians, it does not mean that their understanding of the principle of christianity can never be wrong. Salvation comes from the lord Jesus alone. It is thru his sacrifice on the cross that we become healed and saved.

Jesus never say that salvation comes from our good deeds. Salvation comes first then good deeds follow next. Not the other way around. You accept Jesus with all of your heart and soul. You believe in His sacrifice and His divinity. Thru His love we become perfected. We slowly changed by His mercy and love to become like Christ, Himself. You see, obedience and good deeds comes AFTERWARD as a gesture of our appreciation of his salvation, NOT as a ticket to salvation. I hope that makes sense.

Spot on!

Don't forget that just because someone is a Christian, it doesn't mean that everything they dream, see or imagine is a dead accurate direct message from God.

Sometimes things really are just dreams or imaginings. Sometimes they come, not from God, but from our own sub-concious fears or worries. Sometimes it's the enemy.

If God was genuinely telling someone that they weren't going to make it into heaven because they didn't tell enough people about Him- then that would mean that God was saying- 'You didn't earn salvation- you needed to do something to earn a place here and you didn't do enough of it. The sacrifice of My Son wasn't enough to save you- you should have talked more about Me.'
If you look at it like that, well- that dooms us all- because every Christian has let God down over something at some point. We pretty much do it on a daily basis!!! Whatever caused the vision- (demonic attack, own doubts, just one of those things....etc)- does it really seem like something God would say?


The fact that it seems to have had a positive outcome (that he's sharing Jesus) is great- as long as he doesn't believe that it's doing so that has gained him a place in heaven- ie something he is doing rather than what Jesus has done.

As for the girl being told she'd go to hell for not loving God enough- if she's truly born again and loves Him (and it certainly sounds as though she is and does) - then what purpose would God have for sending a vision like that? If she can't 'make' herself love God more than she does (and again- that'd doom us all, because none of us can say we've all always loved God as He deserves, nor will we ever love Him the way He loves us- His love is just so amazingly vast and deep)- then would God really tell her something she can't make herself do and which would only stress her or others who she may tell.

If it isn't something that edifies or instructs or warns of something which can be changed- is it actually a real message of God or something else (as before- own anxieties, just imagination, the enemy, etc?).

I suppose it comes down to always testing the vision/ message whatever.

 

[timf]

So, as Christians, what do we need to do in order to go to Heaven?

I wrote this for another post, but I think it fits here. It is very common to doubt our own salvation. It is also common to want assurance of salvation.

Jesus says that there will be many to whom he will say, "I never knew you". We also see Jesus telling the Pharisees, "you are of your father the devil". There have been, are, and will be people who are mistaken about their salvation and the status of their relationship with God.

The question becomes, "How can we be sure?"

The Bible says both that we can "know" we are saved (1John 5:13), and that we should examine ourselves to see if we are in the faith (2Corinthians 13:5). This is not a contradiction.The Bible tells us that there is uncertainty and can be certainty. The Bible also tells us to persevere. To the theologian this apparent ambiguity is something he must resolve and explain. As a result, there are many doctrines of various denominations that are promulgated more for their tidiness than their accuracy.

We might want to consider that the lack of Biblical specificity is not an error, but rather the desire of God that we derive our assurance of salvation directly from Him. God may want us unsure and ill at ease until we mature in faith and grow in the image of Christ and closer to Him.

Some religious experts offer measurement standards such as having been baptized, saying a particular prayer, having taken Jesus "into your heart", or made Jesus Lord of your life as the criteria to guarantee that one is saved.

If someone asks me if they are saved, I try to help them by using measurement criteria from the Bible. For example, the Bible is foolishness to those that are perishing, "Do you think the Bible is foolish?". The Bible says that people will know that we are Christians by the love we have for each other, "Do you have love for other Christians?" We have been sealed with the Holy Spirit, "Do you discern His presence?" The Christian is supposed to be in a process of becoming like Jesus, "Are you becoming like Jesus?".

For the person who is not comforted by such questions, I suggest that he put more work into knowing his Savior, the Bible, and surrendering himself to Jesus. Often it is our worldly attachments and walking in the flesh that prevent us from growing closer to his Lord and thus able to draw certainty of salvation.

Our modern organizational religious systems have lost the personal touch. They will often tell someone to be assured because they have met the established criteria and are thus saved. The relational component of Christianity comes in when an older and wiser Christian brother or sister can show a younger one how to draw closer to Jesus and gain the assurance they seek directly from Him who saved them. Christians do not need to fight over what they feel is the most accurate doctrinal statement. They need to encourage those whose faith is weak and walk is distant to draw closer to their Lord and draw their certainty directly from Him who loves them.

What can we do? How can we know we are on our way to Heaven

Assurance is available from our closeness to our Savior. We achieve closeness by not living for ourselves and walking by the Spirit (in truth). We need to be driven to our knees and cry out for wisdom and understanding.

And then my friend who God showed her that He was sending her to Hell because she did not love Him enough

One should be skeptical of information received that does not match up with the Bible.

Ephesians 2:8-9 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.

1 John 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

 

[paul1149]

Migdala, these dreams and visions run counter to my understanding of the Gospel. If our salvation depends on anything other than the blood of Jesus - just as your own motto here states - we are without hope. We love God because He first loved us. We serve Him out of that love, not from our own strength.

The focus in these visions is on our worthiness - our faithfulness to witness, the purity of our hearts, etc. As long as the focus is on us, we will be caught in a Romans 7 torture chamber. There simply is no grace there whatsoever, only misery. Step over into Romans 8, into the grace freely available to us because of the unquenchable love of Christ.

As we focus on the Author and Finisher of our salvation, it all becomes Jesus, and not our ability to do this or be that. It's Jesus. The issue is Jesus. Our job is first of all not to witness more or to change ourselves, but to love Him.

Even in the admonitory letters of Christ to the churches in Revelation, I don't see Him threatening eternal punishment to those who fail to overcome. Only that their light will be extinguished. That's serious enough, and we should do everything we can to avoid any negative judgment. But when the fruit of a dream or vision is to magnify our own malignant fears, or to become obsessed with our own ability to perform religious duties, good is not going to come out of that.

This is why Jesus tells us to abide in His love and in His peace (see the Last Supper discourse in John). Don't let anything shake you from that peace and rest. Everything else will follow. God gives warnings and corrections, and sometimes they are not easy to take. But He always gives assurance and a way out, because it is His love driving the whole thing.

 

[Sketcher]

"For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast." - Eph 2:8-9.

This man on Youtube, if he's saying what you say he's saying, is clearly wrong. God has tasks for each of us to do, but not doing enough of them isn't going to damn us. We'll still get into Heaven, albeit with considerably less reward. 1 Corinthians 3:10-15 comes into play here. If this is how teachers are judged, and James 3:1 tells us that teachers are judged more strictly than the rest of us, then Christians are in pretty good shape. And that shouldn't be surprising, considering what Jesus promised us in John 10:27-29.

 

[Pal Handy]

I saw a video a few days ago that bothered me.

But she called me and told me that a couple of weeks ago she had a vision that she was standing at the edge of Hell, in front of God. And God was going to send her to Hell because He said she did not love Him with all her heart!

I myself had a very vivid vision at the end of last year that was very similar.....

So, as Christians, what do we need to do in order to go to Heaven?

I for one do not trust myself or others when it comes to the Word that God
spoke concerning salvation in Christ alone based on our trust that God is
not a liar and that Jesus spoke the truth.

Why would you???

We only know of the good news by the gospels that were written through
the witnesses that GOD HIMSELF CHOSE. (the disciples)

Jesus makes it clear that His Father chose those men who would see
and hear and then would faithfully record what they saw and heard.
(the gospels)

So who are you going to believe?

Your own fearful heart that conjures up visions or condemnation
simply because you don't feel as if you have done enough to earn
God's GRACE??? or God's word given to us by Jesus Christ as recorded by
the very men God chose to pass on the gospel truth to all men?

Grace is UNMERITTED FAVOR. (grace cannot be earned, period. it is a gift)

No one earns God's grace, He gives it to those who admit they
are lost and need His savior, Jesus Christ.

Pride was the original sin in which man chose his way instead of God's
way. So what makes you think God would allow anyone to be saved by
THEIR OWN WORKS that is rooted in their own PRIDE of doing works to
earn God's favor or grace.

My signature line says it all...

We are righteous (have right standing before God) by what Christ has done
and not by what we have done.

Ephesians 2
8 For by GRACE you have been saved
(God's gift that cannot be earned is salvation and eternal life)

through faith,
(by trusting that God is not a liar and that what He has said is true)

and that not of yourselves;
(We can do nothing to earn or merit God's gift because God gave it to us and
we can only receive this gift by our trust or faith that in God as revealed by
Christ because we believe God is true and not a liar)

it is the gift of God,
(gifts can not be earned, they can only be received)

9 not of works,
(Plainly...not of works, other wise men could take pride in their
earning a place in God's favor)

lest anyone should boast.
(No man will claim to have earned his right into God's kingdom)

Trust in the teachings of Christ and the gospels that His Father intrusted
to the very men He chose to follow His Christ and to testify to the truth
of Jesus as the Christ.

Leave the videos, visions and dreams by the side of the road when they dispute
the Words of God as Given by God Himself to Emanuel, God with man...Jesus the Christ.

 

[Migdala]

Just because they are good and strong christians, it does not mean that their understanding of the principle of christianity can never be wrong. Salvation comes from the lord Jesus alone. It is thru his sacrifice on the cross that we become healed and saved.

Jesus never say that salvation comes from our good deeds. Salvation comes first then good deeds follow next. Not the other way around. You accept Jesus with all of your heart and soul. You believe in His sacrifice and His divinity. Thru His love we become perfected. We slowly changed by His mercy and love to become like Christ, Himself. You see, obedience and good deeds comes AFTERWARD as a gesture of our appreciation of his salvation, NOT as a ticket to salvation. I hope that makes sense.

That was not how it happened with me. I walked in my bedroom, asked God to forgive me, and He literally poured His Spirit all over me-I was baptized in His Spirit (no tongues though) and saw visions of Jesus for a week. I had the most incredible amount of love for God and others...my "good deeds" came immedietely. Because I had the Holy Spirit so strong in me.

I totally understand the concept of salvation, and so do my friends. I was just mentioning the visions they each had. I had one too. I was on the edge of Hell, in the presence of God, and He was very, very angry at me. I felt His wrath. Then I felt my soul(I think?) leave (at the time I thought it was the Holy Spirit leaving me). He was angry with me for a long time, and I am still trying to get my relationship back the way it was. I will not give up on Him. Change can only come if you have the Holy Spirit, although anyone can do it on their own, but sooner or later their true colors are going to come out.

 

[Migdala]

I for one do not trust myself or others when it comes to the Word that God
spoke concerning salvation in Christ alone based on our trust that God is
not a liar and that Jesus spoke the truth.

Why would you???

We only know of the good news by the gospels that were written through
the witnesses that GOD HIMSELF CHOSE. (the disciples)

Jesus makes it clear that His Father chose those men who would see
and hear and then would faithfully record what they saw and heard.
(the gospels)

So who are you going to believe?

Your own fearful heart that conjures up visions or condemnation
simply because you don't feel as if you have done enough to earn
God's GRACE??? or God's word given to us by Jesus Christ as recorded by
the very men God chose to pass on the gospel truth to all men?

Grace is UNMERITTED FAVOR. (grace cannot be earned, period. it is a gift)

No one earns God's grace, He gives it to those who admit they
are lost and need His savior, Jesus Christ.

Pride was the original sin in which man chose his way instead of God's
way. So what makes you think God would allow anyone to be saved by
THEIR OWN WORKS that is rooted in their own PRIDE of doing works to
earn God's favor or grace.

My signature line says it all...

We are righteous (have right standing before God) by what Christ has done
and not by what we have done.

Ephesians 2
8 For by GRACE you have been saved
(God's gift that cannot be earned is salvation and eternal life)

through faith,
(by trusting that God is not a liar and that what He has said is true)

and that not of yourselves;
(We can do nothing to earn or merit God's gift because God gave it to us and
we can only receive this gift by our trust or faith that in God as revealed by
Christ because we believe God is true and not a liar)

it is the gift of God,
(gifts can not be earned, they can only be received)

9 not of works,
(Plainly...not of works, other wise men could take pride in their
earning a place in God's favor)

lest anyone should boast.
(No man will claim to have earned his right into God's kingdom)

Trust in the teachings of Christ and the gospels that His Father intrusted
to the very men He chose to follow His Christ and to testify to the truth
of Jesus as the Christ.

Leave the videos, visions and dreams by the side of the road when they dispute
the Words of God as Given by God Himself to Emanuel, God with man...Jesus the Christ.

I already know and understand the concept of salvation and what Jesus did for us. I already know that it is a gift from God, and not of works. That's why I do not understand the visions and the experience that man had when he died. God gives visions all the time-I have had many myself.

 

[Aibrean]

God wouldn't send a believer to hell because they didn't witness enough. That's a load of scat.

 

[Pal Handy]

I already know and understand the concept of salvation and what Jesus did for us. I already know that it is a gift from God, and not of works. That's why I do not understand the visions and the experience that man had when he died. God gives visions all the time-I have had many myself.

Your visions does not take a place over God's word.
You and your experiances are fallible, God alone is infallible

We are told that we are not to accept any other gospel
even if an angel of light comes to us and preaches another gospel message.

So it is clear to me, you are perplexed about something that has happened
(we will call it your angel of light) that preached a way of earning heaven
and salvation by being good enough to preach the gospel to enough
people to get you into heaven even when you say you know this is false.

Don't concern yourself with the vision but rather draw close to God,
read His words of life and plant them again deep into your heart and
pray and ask God to remove anything from your life that would bring
doubt to you and instead replace your doubt with faith and love and more of His Holy Spirit.

I cannot tell you why you are having these "visions" but you did admit that
you watched a video that brought doubt into your life.

God calls us to meditate on His word and to fill our thoughts with
those things that are from above and not of this evil and doubting world.

The devil is always on the prowl to bring doubt and accusation against
God and so if I were you I would go to God in prayer and ask Him
to remove this vision and the doubts it brings to your life.

We are to test the spirits that come to us to see if it comes from God.

There are three sources that can influence us.
God, ourselves and the devil.
All three can come as our inner voice (and yes visions) so we must discern by using
the word of God and the Spirit of God within us.

Here is an example of the early believers admonished to test
what it is they are hearing.

1 John 4:2
By this you know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that
confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God, and every
spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God.

I have questioned my inner voice that I have thought could be God with the question...
has Jesus Christ come in the flesh?...and have had
that inner voice fall silent because it was not of God.

I am probably giving you more info than you need but I don't know
where you are at in you walk with the Lord.

I can tell you this, your vision is not of God because it is another gospel and
another way other than Christ's sacrifice, so it needs to be dumped and forgotten and
you need to ask God to come in and remove the seeds of doubt and replace them
with seeds of faith and assurance that God has not given us another Gospel
other than the one given to us in Christ.

 

[Migdala]

The vision that happened to me has tormented me for months now, because I do not believe it was from Satan. I am not sure if I committed the unpardonable sin, and am trying to regain my relationship with God, that's all.

I already know how to test the spirits, but have never understood the test of asking the spirits if they believe Jesus has come in the flesh, because obviously the demons believe in Jesus already-they just choose not to follow Him. Remember the story of Jesus casting out the demons and they knew who He was-the Son of God?

So how is that an effective test?

 

[Migdala]

God wouldn't send a believer to hell because they didn't witness enough. That's a load of scat.

So do you think Satan can give a person an experience after they died? This guy had actually died and was standing in front of God, who was sending him to Hell. This was AFTER he died. Do you think Satan is able to do that after a person has died?

 

[spr]

Lay off the youtube. The apostle Paul knew he was going to pass and that a 'crown of glory' was laid up for him. He called his churches his 'crown' and spent his life strengthening their faith. Their standing before God, charity, and so on, no doubt greatly comforted him and gave him great assurance.

God desires to give us all direction and assurance of salvation, but we are not helping ourselves when we feed the seeds the devil plants.

 

[Pal Handy]

The vision that happened to me has tormented me for months now, because I do not believe it was from Satan. I am not sure if I committed the unpardonable sin, and am trying to regain my relationship with God, that's all.

I already know how to test the spirits, but have never understood the test of asking the spirits if they believe Jesus has come in the flesh, because obviously the demons believe in Jesus already-they just choose not to follow Him. Remember the story of Jesus casting out the demons and they knew who He was-the Son of God?

So how is that an effective test?

The devil is the spirit of anti Christ that has gone out into the world and so
he will not confess a testify that the Messiah, the Anointed king, the
Christ of God has come into the world in the flesh.

Knowing something and confessing or testifying of it are two different things.
Of course the devil knows of the truth but the truth is not in him, he cannot
acknowledge the truth when confronted because he is a liar.

The devil himself will come incarnate as the false messiah and
deceive many in the last days of this age.

The devil is the father of lies and so he and his demons will not confess Jesus Christ as the
Anointed Messiah and chosen savior sent to deliver men and establish God's kingdom and
depose the devil's rule.
This is what the early disciples knew and believed so who am I to question them and call them liars?

I personally know that it works and that the devil will not confess Jesus Christ as Lord
when confronted so this test works perfectly as the disciples attested to.

As far as your torment, God does not torment us so this
feeling of angst and confusion is further proof that your vision cannot be from God.

God brings His assurance of peace to our hearts when His truth
is acknowledged by those who receive His truth.

I think that you are allowing this "vision" to come between you and God.

Your vision cannot possibly be right according to the truth that God
has given us through His Christ and the witnesses God Himself has chosen.

Can you set aside this "vision" or will you continue to allow it to
torment you even when you know it cannot be true?

Let God be found true and every man a liar.

Will you simple let it go and trust in God and not your questioning or
reasoning of how you could not possibly be wrong in the face of scripture and the gospel truth?

Many cults have been started by people who chose to believe that they
have been given extra revelation that conflicted with God's written word and truth.

I think it is dangerous ground you are on and I think you need
to confide in your pastor and seek God in prayer and find the
peace of God again in your life.

ps I am not condemning you and I have been where you are so I know that
everything must come under Christ authority and Lordship, even those
things that we believe to be from God must be laid at His feet especially
those things that happen that we do not understand.
Let Jesus be Lord of it all, including this vison.

 

[tturt]

Migdala, I can see why that would be very upsetting. But the first test of any dream, vision, prophetic word, etc. is does it line up with Scripture? I know you know Scripture. Not that He won't correct us but I don't see how the accusing tone could be from Yahweh. I do know if you'll ask Yahweh about it, He will reveal the answer to you. You know "Be still and know that I am Yahweh." So I would get before Him and shut out the world, meditate on Him (not emptying our minds but focusing on Him), and wait for His voice.

 

[Migdala]

The devil is the spirit of anti Christ that has gone out into the world and so
he will not confess a testify that the Messiah, the Anointed king, the
Christ of God has come into the world in the flesh.

Knowing something and confessing or testifying of it are two different things.
Of course the devil knows of the truth but the truth is not in him, he cannot
acknowledge the truth when confronted because he is a liar.

The devil himself will come incarnate as the false messiah and
deceive many in the last days of this age.

The devil is the father of lies and so he and his demons will not confess Jesus Christ as the
Anointed Messiah and chosen savior sent to deliver men and establish God's kingdom and
depose the devil's rule.
This is what the early disciples knew and believed so who am I to question them and call them liars?

I personally know that it works and that the devil will not confess Jesus Christ as Lord
when confronted so this test works perfectly as the disciples attested to.

As far as your torment, God does not torment us so this
feeling of angst and confusion is further proof that your vision cannot be from God.

God brings His assurance of peace to our hearts when His truth
is acknowledged by those who receive His truth.

I think that you are allowing this "vision" to come between you and God.

Your vision cannot possibly be right according to the truth that God
has given us through His Christ and the witnesses God Himself has chosen.

Can you set aside this "vision" or will you continue to allow it to
torment you even when you know it cannot be true?

Let God be found true and every man a liar.

Will you simple let it go and trust in God and not your questioning or
reasoning of how you could not possibly be wrong in the face of scripture and the gospel truth?

Many cults have been started by people who chose to believe that they
have been given extra revelation that conflicted with God's written word and truth.

I think it is dangerous ground you are on and I think you need
to confide in your pastor and seek God in prayer and find the
peace of God again in your life.

ps I am not condemning you and I have been where you are so I know that
everything must come under Christ authority and Lordship, even those
things that we believe to be from God must be laid at His feet especially
those things that happen that we do not understand.
Let Jesus be Lord of it all, including this vison.

Yes, I already know that the AntiChrist will come as an angel of light. I know the things I said against the Holy Spirit, and I felt God's anger at me-I literally felt His wrath and I felt my soul leave my body. I have had many demonic attacks and I know the difference. I have never in my life felt terror from God, but I felt it at that point.

I do not know if I have gone past the point of no return with God. All I know is that I have been trying and trying to get the Holy Spirit back strong in my life...over and over and over. My pastor does not meet people-I have been going to my church for about 5 months now and have still not met him...and he has absolutely no tolerance whatsoever for people in my position. He calls them "whining, sniveling cowards who do not know the authority they have in Christ". or something similar. My church is all about the POWER of the Holy Spirit, speaking in tongues, healing, having lots of money, etc. Very big on spiritual warfare also.

I used to have the assurance of the Holy Spirit in my heart. I want that back....I can do nothing without His assurance. I used to have so much LOVE for Jesus and for others....

I am seeing a counselor at my church, but she thinks nothing is wrong with me and she wants me to join the church and the prayer team....even though I do not have the Baptism of the Holy Spirit and would be absolutely USELESS on a prayer team. So I have not even joined the church until I get the Baptism with evidence of tongues-they probably wouldn't let me anyway.

Honestly-don't you think I have not been praying for God to help me with this? Don't you think I have not been praying for peace and assurance of my salvation and to know if I have been forgiven by God for my horrible sin? I am STILL WAITING on that assurance from Him!

I am severely depressed, living in torment day in and day out, and all I do is sleep so I don't have to THINK about what I said.

Yes, God is love....but He also chastens and disciplines and PUNISHES sinners...yes, even Christians who continue in rebellious sin like I did.

If He does not chasten a person then the Bible says we are not His.

Yes, I sometimes see God working in my life....like if I pray for someone and God answers the prayer.....but I need the joy of my salvation-I need the conviction of sin, I need the leading of the Holy Spirit, to hear His still, small Voice again.

My heart is like a rock, and I fear so much that God is hardening my heart like He did with Pharoah. The closer I try to get to Him, the further I feel and I don't know what to do anymore.

 

[dodolah]

My point is simple in this.
To differentiate which side is giving the vision, test the fruits and the spirit it brings about. Holy spirit brings about conviction. The devil brings about condemnation. God brings about peace and the devil brings about the spirit of fear.

You be the judge. If you say that everyday you are constantly living on fear that you are condemned by God to hell and to suffer His wrath, then you don't need a prophet nor a visitation from angel to know exactly who is behind those visions.

You can discuss and defend the vision all night long, but remember the God who died on the cross to save humanity from condemnation... Now why on earth He would go that far for you just to have you suffer His wrath?

Don't rationalize. Just accept. perhaps, the reason why you think the Holy Spirit has not reside in you is because deep down you have not forgive yourself. Perhaps, inside you still doubt the greatness of God's mercy and love.
Stop resisting the fact that He loves you.