These things confuse me

[Pal Handy]

Let me ask you this. If our future sins are paid for, then why would Jesus give a warning to the churches in Revelation?

He tells the church in Ephesus that they have left their first love, and if they do not do the first works, He will remove their lampstand-unless they repent. And the church at Sardis, if they did not repent, He would blot them out of the Book of Life.



If their future sins were paid for, there would have been no need for the warnings at all. Jesus would not tell us that those who endure till the End would be saved, nor would He tell those to OVERCOME in order to enter the Kingdom of God.

Paul would not tell us to put on the full armour of God and fight if it was Ok to just go along with Satan's tricks and deceptions. We would have no reason to confess and repent to God if that were the case.

You answered your own question...
You receive the pardon if you endure to the end and keep your faith.

Jesus died over two thousand years ago and yet our sins are forgiven today.
Sounds to me like Christ's sacrifice covered not only sins of the past
and present but also the future sins of all men.

The sin is paid for once and for all time but the the acceptance
of the forgiveness and pardon is dependent upon a person dying in their faith in Christ.

Freewill is always a factor.
God can forgive us our sins but if we call Him a liar and reject His free
gift of a pardon and eternal life then God honors our decision.

Just ask the unbeliever what He thinks and He will tell you that you are
a liar who spreads more lies about a non existent God and that the Bible
is false and written by men to dupe other men and on and on.
They will hurl every blasphemy against God, His Christ and the Holy Spirit
as they curse you and God.

God has forgiven all their sin but they reject God and curse Him and those
that preach the gospel by telling them of His gift of salvation.

God is not mock so whatever a man sows he will reap, including their
rejection of God and their blasphemy of God's Spirit that testifies of
Christ, if they die without repenting.

All sin has been paid for but all who would receive the forgiveness must
admit that they are wrong and God is true otherwise they commit
the unpardonable sin if they die while insisting that God is wrong and they are right.

The pardon is useless if not received.

We receive by faith and not by works.

The unpardonable sin is calling the Holy Spirit's (God the Holy Spirit)
testimony of Christ a lie and dying in that denial of of God's
testimony of Christ's salvation.

Pride is the original sin that caused the original fall of man and
pride is the final sin that a person commits that causes his final fall from the final
offer of God's grace and pardon.
In their pride they reject God by calling Him a liar while insisting
that they know the truth. (sounds like a reenactment of the first man)

All sin can be forgive except this one sin of dying in unbelief and
rejection of the Holy Spirit's testimony given to a person who hears
the gospel and then rejects it and dies without faith in Christ.

God so loved the world that He sent His only begotten son that
whosoever believes on Him will not perish but have everlasting life.

You cannot believe on Him if you deny Him before you die.

You have to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ till the end....

 

[paul1149]

Let me ask you this. If our future sins are paid for, then why would Jesus give a warning to the churches in Revelation?

He tells the church in Ephesus that they have left their first love, and if they do not do the first works, He will remove their lampstand-unless they repent. And the church at Sardis, if they did not repent, He would blot them out of the Book of Life.

If their future sins were paid for, there would have been no need for the warnings at all. Jesus would not tell us that those who endure till the End would be saved, nor would He tell those to OVERCOME in order to enter the Kingdom of God.

Paul would not tell us to put on the full armour of God and fight if it was Ok to just go along with Satan's tricks and deceptions. We would have no reason to confess and repent to God if that were the case.

Our future sins must be paid for, because there is no possible further sacrifice but that which has already been sacrificed - the perfect Lamb of God. Either that sacrifice covers it all, or none of us has a chance, because there hasn't been one person who walked perfectly even after accepting Christ.

Jesus issues warnings because sin still carries a price. It may be earthly consequences, it may be heavenly rewards, it may be both. He still disciplines and chastises us for our own good, but as far as forgiveness, the Lord is not counting our sins against us, so long as we remain under the blood.

For our part, we need to confess and repent along the way, because doing the will of God is not automatic, nor is intimacy with Him. Being forgiven and being reconciled are two separate things, which is why the scriptures are so full of exhortation. And on top of that we still have an adversary who can do very real damage. We should take nothing for granted, with the exception of God's loving faithfulness.

And if we willfully rebel, God is not mocked. Being ultimately blotted out of the book of life is serious business. Let's take a closer look at that Sardis verse.

The one who conquers will be clothed thus in white garments, and I will never blot his name out of the book of life. I will confess his name before my Father and before his angels. -Rev 3:5​

First of all, the verse is overwhelmingly positive and encouraging. It affirms life for those who overcome. It is only by implication that the verse says that those who do not overcome will be, or at least run the risk of being, blotted out. But that implicit warning should not be minimized. This is all the more reason to draw near for grace to overcome.

I would exhort you to test your vision very carefully, for two reasons. First, not all spirits are of God. Second, satan will try to hijack a word even when what we have heard is from God. He can twist things to emphasize condemnation and hopelessness. But we see that the Lord couches even this strong warning to the Sardins in affirmations and promises. He also was speaking to a church that most probably had some unsaved among them. But for those who are truly sealed, He always leaves a way out.

The critical thing here is not to be knocked out of the box. Keep your focus on Jesus, not yourself, because Jesus is The Way forward. If this vision is causing you to doubt His ability to save you, even despite weaknesses and past failures, you're in faithless works-salvation territory, and that is a downward spiral.

In that verse, Jesus' promises apply to those who overcome. And who are those who overcome?

For everyone who has been born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world: our faith. -1John 5:4

And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. -Rev 12:11​

Not only is Jesus the Author and Finisher of our faith, He's its object and focus as well. If after all, you believe this vision is of God, then take it to heart, but do not let it shake your faith in Jesus' power to save. Remember, He is faithful even when we are not, and when our hearts condemn us, God is greater than our hearts, and knows all things. Instead, draw near to the full assurance of salvation that we have in Christ. Get serious about letting go of anything that holds you back, as the Holy Spirit leads and empowers you to do. As you see His goodness and gentleness again, you will fall in love with Him afresh. He will use even this to elevate you to new levels of intimacy, and a new empowerment to minister to others. You might want to spend some time in 1John, which deals with many of these issues.

 

[holythemholyme]

Hold on a minute...im tired of the idea of "not telling enough people" when the manjority of people do know but choose to go the other way by their own free will. In the bible when salvation is talked about to a group of people some accept it and others did not, are you going to hell for others choices ? Absolutely not. I would say be careful with these hell/heaven revelation because satan is the greatest accuser and he too makes you see scenes to intimidate and to make you fearful.

I used to read hell stories online but I sick that god/jesus seems to throw almost everyone in there in those stories , even if you were saved, the most minor detail seems to set him off.

 

[Migdala]

Hold on a minute...im tired of the idea of "not telling enough people" when the manjority of people do know but choose to go the other way by their own free will. In the bible when salvation is talked about to a group of people some accept it and others did not, are you going to hell for others choices ? Absolutely not. I would say be careful with these hell/heaven revelation because satan is the greatest accuser and he too makes you see scenes to intimidate and to make you fearful.

I used to read hell stories online but I sick that god/jesus seems to throw almost everyone in there in those stories , even if you were saved, the most minor detail seems to set him off.

Me too,because all I know is that no one can come to Christ without the Holy Spirit drawing them to Him. A person can pray and pray, and read their Bible till they are blue in the face, but if God has not chosen them to be saved, then there is nothing they can do on their own to be saved. I like reading the fact that God wants ALL to be saved and coming to the knowledge of Christ, but we've got to look at the fact that it was GOD who hardened Pharoah's heart.....and it was Jacob that God loved, and Esau that He hated. Things like this terrify me, and make me beg over and over for Him to save me, even though I know I am wasting my time because salvation is a gift from God and we can do nothing to earn it.

I also used to spend a lot of time reading stuff online about Hell and demons....but now I'm learning that what we put in our minds affects everything! I notice that when I read stuff or watch videos about Jesus and His miracles, I fall in love with Him more. But if I watch demonic stuff, even though it pertains to Christianity, I'm a lot more fearful.

 

[Aibrean]

I think you are confused Migdala. Sure there are some denominations that believe in predestination of the unsaved, but I am not a part of one of them. We believe that God doesn't predestine to damnation. No, Christ died to save the WHOLE world.

For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.

If a person rejects God after hearing the gospel, it is because of their own hardening of heart, not God hardening it.

Salvation is a gift to all who would receive it.

 

[Migdala]

I think you are confused Migdala. Sure there are some denominations that believe in predestination of the unsaved, but I am not a part of one of them. We believe that God doesn't predestine to ****ation. No, Christ died to save the WHOLE world.



If a person rejects God after hearing the gospel, it is because of their own hardening of heart, not God hardening it.

Salvation is a gift to all who would receive it.

Yes, IF God opens their heart to believe in Jesus. I never thought much about salvation until I walked in my bedroom a few years ago and sat down at my desk and asked God to forgive me and change my heart. He baptized me in the Spirit right then, and opened my heart to salvation. I could have never done it on my own.

I have witnessed and witnessed to people who seem to agree with what I am saying, but after talking to them more, you can obviously tell that God has not opened their minds to salvation....HE is the one who has to do it. We can't do it on our own.

I sinned horribly by the words of my mouth, due to mental issues I have. Every day I would say I'm not going to talk negative, but when those moods hit, my faith would bite the dust and I would say horrible things, not even knowing if I was saved or not. Then I'd cry and cry for God to forgive me AGAIN.

Point is, a person can read the Bible over and over, but if the Holy Spirit does not open their minds, then it's useless. Yes, Jesus died for everyone, but they have to RECEIVE that teaching. And they can't receive it unless God opens their minds spiritually.

 

[dodolah]

So, in short, you are under the belief that Jesus predestines some people to go to hell by refusing to open their minds spiritually?
This is just my opinion, but if God indeed responsible to cause some people to go to hell no matter how hard they want to be saved, do you realize the consequence of such statement?

In other words, you are indirectly saying that Lucifer has a just cause to rebel against such God.

 

[Migdala]

I don't understand what you mean by that statement.

 

[NoelAsa]

Me too,because all I know is that no one can come to Christ without the Holy Spirit drawing them to Him. A person can pray and pray, and read their Bible till they are blue in the face, but if God has not chosen them to be saved, then there is nothing they can do on their own to be saved. I like reading the fact that God wants ALL to be saved and coming to the knowledge of Christ, but we've got to look at the fact that it was GOD who hardened Pharoah's heart.....and it was Jacob that God loved, and Esau that He hated. Things like this terrify me, and make me beg over and over for Him to save me, even though I know I am wasting my time because salvation is a gift from God and we can do nothing to earn it

Where in the bible does it say that God loved Jacob, but He hated Esau?

Genesis 25:23 The Lord said to her, "Two nations are in your womb, and two people from within you will be separated; one people will be stronger than the other, and the older will serve the younger.

They both became nations within their own separate familes. Jacob's was the stronger because he received Isaac's blessing.

Pharaoh already had a hardened heart towards Israelites. In the bible it states nine times that Pharaoh hardened his own heart, or that circumstances may have helped to harden his heart. There are only serveral passages that describe God as the one hardending Pharaoh's heart. This was all done so that the Israelites would be allowed to leave Egypt. The Pharaoh never believed in the one true God.

 

[Aibrean]

As I said, as soon as they hear the gospel, the Holy Spirit works. That is Biblical doctrine. It is their own stubbornness, not the lack of "unhardening" that is causing their separation from God.

 

[spr]

After looking at what paul1149 said about the blotting out of names in the book of life I'm more encouraged that it might not be all as bad as it appears. In the KJV it reads "will not blot out his name", which seems more threatening than "will never blot out his name".

Replacing not with never makes it sound more like a promise, or gift. Everyone probably wavers in their service to Christ until they reach a certian point at which they recieve a promise. So perhaps names are added and removed from the book of life on regular basis for those who have yet to revieve the promise.

 

[Johnnz]

I see that everyone is in that book and needs to be deleted, rather than the otherway around.

John
NZ

 

[seashale76]

Some articles and resources for you:
What Is Most Important
F A I T H
The Way into the Kingdom of Heaven
Значение и (this is in English)
P r a y e r
Let us

 

[dodolah]

I don't understand what you mean by that statement.

If such fact is the truth, then it implies God is fully responsible in causing certain people to go to hell. By saying God predestined certain people to be condemned then you indirectly support Lucifer's rebellion against God. One of Satan's accusation against God is that He is not just.

How can God be a just God if He created human beings so that He can cast them to suffer eternally in hell without a chance to repent.

With such doctrine, no wonder you are confused. Because it is nothing more than a confusion of the truth.

 

[Migdala]

I think you are confused Migdala. Sure there are some denominations that believe in predestination of the unsaved, but I am not a part of one of them. We believe that God doesn't predestine to ****ation. No, Christ died to save the WHOLE world.



If a person rejects God after hearing the gospel, it is because of their own hardening of heart, not God hardening it.

Salvation is a gift to all who would receive it.

Yes, Jesus died to save the whole world...but what is your view on Judas, for instance? If he had not betrayed Christ, we would all die in our sins, right? Do you believe that was his choice,and that he could have repented instead of killing himself, or do you believe that God raised him up for that reason-to betray our Savior?

 

[Migdala]

If such fact is the truth, then it implies God is fully responsible in causing certain people to go to hell. By saying God predestined certain people to be condemned then you indirectly support Lucifer's rebellion against God. One of Satan's accusation against God is that He is not just.

How can God be a just God if He created human beings so that He can cast them to suffer eternally in hell without a chance to repent.

With such doctrine, no wonder you are confused. Because it is nothing more than a confusion of the truth.

I do not believe in "OSAS", but I do believe that if we do lose our salvation, we can ask forgiveness and repent and restore our salvation. People go to Hell by their own choice-by not repenting of their sins.

 

[Migdala]

Some articles and resources for you:
What Is Most Important
F A I T H
The Way into the Kingdom of Heaven
Значение и (this is in English)
P r a y e r
Let us

Thank you for the links and your response!

 

[Migdala]

After looking at what paul1149 said about the blotting out of names in the book of life I'm more encouraged that it might not be all as bad as it appears. In the KJV it reads "will not blot out his name", which seems more threatening than "will never blot out his name".

Replacing not with never makes it sound more like a promise, or gift. Everyone probably wavers in their service to Christ until they reach a certian point at which they recieve a promise. So perhaps names are added and removed from the book of life on regular basis for those who have yet to revieve the promise.

Thank you for pointing that out! That is a LOT more encouraging! I looked the verse up in an interlinear Bible as well, and it says the same thing. Wonder why it is written so negatively in other versions of the Bible? Rather a scary verse!

 

[Migdala]

Where in the bible does it say that God loved Jacob, but He hated Esau?

Malachi 1:3; and referred to in Romans 9:13

 

[Aibrean]

I do not believe in "OSAS", but I do believe that if we do lose our salvation, we can ask forgiveness and repent and restore our salvation. People go to Hell by their own choice-by not repenting of their sins.

You just defined my view on Judas.