How do you know? Were you there?

[PhantomLlama]

This is a line I have seen many times (or words to that effect). Some creationists seem to think that if science is dealing with past events it ceases to be science and becomes faith.

If they are to be consistent then they would have to reject forensic science as well. Down with the evil religion of Forensicism!

 

[Kung Food Fighting]

I can see how that arguement would go in court:
A forensic pathologist takes the stand, starts to list evidence that the defendent was the killer: the bullet matched the gun, the victum's blood was on his clothes, traces of gun powder was on the defendant's shirt, his fingerprints were all over the victums' house ect.

After the forencis pathologist is finished the defense attorney calmly gets up, walks to the pathologist and asks in his most deadpan voice, "Where you there?"
pathologist: Um...no
defense: Then how can you be really sure that my client is guilty if you were not there to witenes the murder?
pathologist: Well I have all of the evidence that I just listed off pointing to the defendent being guilty of murder.
defense: But where you there?
pathologist: No I wasn't.
defense: Then there is your reasonible doubt ladies and gentlemen of the jury.
He then sits down looking rather pleased with himself.

 

[Follower of Christ]

This is probably because the supernatural power of God is beyond the scope of science to study.

Can science explain the many miracles in the Bible?
No, you will have to conclude they were fabricated.

If God did indeed create it all, it is very much within HIs ability to defy/ignore the laws of nature that He Himself would have put into place.

This is why we can ignore things that you all hold dear.
We acknowedge that God can do as He wishes. Including making it all in 6 literal days.

Obvioulsy you non-believers will never believe or understand this.
Which is why I only intended originally to approach my brethren with my thoughts.

We cannot explain it all. God doesnt want us to understand it all or He would have laid it out in black and white Himself.

He wants us to approach HIm with faith in that which we cannot see or completely understand and worship HIM as our King.

I do reject forensic science the minute it defies the truth of scripture.

 

[Arikay]

But at the same time, if god can do whatever he wants, then he couldnt have also done it different than literal 6 days, and just told people thats how he did it.

Matter of fact, doesnt the creation in 6 literal days seem to stiffle gods power? Why did it take god 6 days at all? Why not 1 second?

If god can do anything, that means he can also make the world however he sees fit, and explain it to people however he sees fit. Making 6 day literalism about as correct as the supposed false evolution.

 

[Cantuar]

If God did indeed create it all, it is very much within HIs ability to defy/ignore the laws of nature that He Himself would have put into place.

And in doing so he would have created a situation that couldn't be addressed by the scientific method. So why do creationists keep insisting that creationism is bona fide science and needs to be taught in science class? The whole point of scientific investigation is that it's limited to the parameters of the laws of nature (hence the full name, "natural science").

 

[Follower of Christ]

Today at 09:31 PM Arikay said this in Post #4

But at the same time, if god can do whatever he wants, then he couldnt have also done it different than literal 6 days, and just told people thats how he did it.

Matter of fact, doesnt the creation in 6 literal days seem to stiffle gods power? Why did it take god 6 days at all? Why not 1 second?

If god can do anything, that means he can also make the world however he sees fit, and explain it to people however he sees fit. Making 6 day literalism about as correct as the supposed false evolution.

You are right, He could have done it instantly.
If you study more, you will see that He did it in 6 days and rested on the 7th for a reason.

 

[Follower of Christ]

Today at 09:35 PM Cantuar said this in Post #5



And in doing so he would have created a situation that couldn't be addressed by the scientific method. So why do creationists keep insisting that creationism is bona fide science and needs to be taught in science class? The whole point of scientific investigation is that it's limited to the parameters of the laws of nature (hence the full name, "natural science").

You may misunderstand my stance.
I would rather that religion be dropped from schools altogether.

Only because our children have already been in contact with Wiccans wh were teachers.

I would rather that my children not be forcibly taught Muslim ''culture''.

 

[Arikay]

But god doesnt need a reason, god is all powerfull. For god to need a reason is to mean we can understand him. If we can understand him then evolution is a possibility.
If evolution isnt a possibility because we cant understand him, then neither is anything else our small brains come up with.

 

[Mechanical Bliss]

Today at 09:40 PM Follower of Christ said this in Post #6


You are right, He could have done it instantly.
If you study more, you will see that He did it in 6 days

And if you actually studied the physical evidence honestly you'd realize the impossibility of the young earth model.

 and rested on the 7th for a reason.

And what reason would an omnipotent being have to rest? Surely the powers of an all-powerful being are inexhaustable, so no rest would be required.

 

[Follower of Christ]

Today at 10:05 PM Mechanical Bliss said this in Post #9

And what reason would an omnipotent being have to rest? Surely the powers of an all-powerful being are inexhaustable, so no rest would be required.

Exactly.
Now you are starting to get the picture.

The fact that He didnt need to rest Or need 6 days to begin with are part of understanding what actually happened.

 

[Mechanical Bliss]

"What actually happened" is recorded as physical evidence in the Earth. That's what needs to be studied.

 

[Late_Cretaceous]

"The fact that He didnt need to rest Or need 6 days to begin with are part of understanding what actually happened."

How do you know, where you there?

 

[Follower of Christ]

Today at 11:01 PM Late_Cretaceous said this in Post #12

"The fact that He didnt need to rest Or need 6 days to begin with are part of understanding what actually happened."

How do you know, where you there?

Were you?

I've a very distinct feeling that you probably arent big on Bible study OR prayer, so why do you even bother to reply to my posts knowing that your POV will immediatley be void in regards to scripture?

 

[webboffin]

My own stance is that science is probably correct in aging the Earth, I don't know about the Universe as such as that is a much bigger tough question.
But when God said he did creation in 6 days I think it really means stages.
A stage could of be an uncertain amount of time but do we really know that God was calling a day in the physical period on a single Earth rotation or was talking more about the steps he made in creation?
The 7th day of rest means that he had accomplished creation needed for mankind. But he didn't just stop there as he only rested for one day. God is always creating even today.

 

[PhantomLlama]

I had you down as a YEC. Seems I was wrong. It's good to see you apply a more realistic interpretation.

 

[AV1611VET]

If they are to be consistent then they would have to reject forensic science as well.

No.

Ever heard of X-ing a Paragrab?

That's what Internet scientists here expect us to do with the Bible.

Instead, there are Boolean standards that can be employed to reconcile science and the Bible.

 

[MoonLancer]

No.

Ever heard of X-ing a Paragrab?

That's what Internet scientists here expect us to do with the Bible.

Instead, there are Boolean standards that can be employed to reconcile science and the Bible.

from what i see Christians discard more of the bible anyone. pick and choose and discard what doesn't fit with secular morality.

 

[AV1611VET]

from what i see Christians discard more of the bible anyone.

Not this one.

pick and choose and discard what doesn't fit with secular morality.

Not this one.

 

[Delphiki]

Not this one.

Not this one.

So, you have a long beard, given up all your worldly posessions, steer clear of mixed fibers, stone disobedient children, and you don't put a Christmas tree in your house?

 

[MoonLancer]

Not this one.

your actually the example. ;p

Not this one.

yes this one

so... what is your response to this line in the bible? will you discard it?

Exodus 21:22 "When men fight and hurt a pregnant woman, so that she suffers a miscarriage but no further injury the guilty one shall be fined whatever the woman's husband demands and the court allows."

is the bible going to take a hike?