Fear of eternal torment

[NZEN]

I would like to know how people, especially those who doubt hell, cope with the possibility of a place of eternal torment believed in by so many.

Certain depictions of hell are quite frightening, but I find reading certain books can make the fear go as fast as it came, if not faster.

 

[ToddNotTodd]

I would like to know how people, especially those who doubt hell, cope with the possibility of a place of eternal torment believed in by so many.

Certain depictions of hell are quite frightening, but I find reading certain books can make the fear go as fast as it came, if not faster.

I'm not frightened by things I don't believe in.

 

[Eudaimonist]

I would like to know how people, especially those who doubt hell, cope with the possibility of a place of eternal torment believed in by so many.

The same way I cope with the thought of being captured by Sauron, the Dark Lord, and taken to his Halls of Lamentation for torture.

How do you deal with that thought?


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[Nanopants]

I would like to know how people, especially those who doubt hell, cope with the possibility of a place of eternal torment believed in by so many.

Certain depictions of hell are quite frightening, but I find reading certain books can make the fear go as fast as it came, if not faster.

It depends on the assumptions one makes about the reality of his or her faith.

In my own estimation, a belief in hell (at least the Judeo-Christian version) and eternal torment is a product of the assumption that the Bible is inerrant.

However, I see no sound reason for this assumption. From my perspective then, the account given in the Bible appears to be the effect of God's progressive shaping of our beliefs, which culminates in the message of Christ saying "Be not afraid."

 

[Snowden]

I never really understood the concept of eternal pain, suffering, burning, torment, etc. in Hell anyway. All of those descriptors are dependent on our physical bodies (nerves, brain, neurons and synapses, etc.). Once we die and no longer have a functioning body (and assuming that a "soul" is then disconnected from the body), how can one "feel" anything? If someone is going to "burn in Hell", what actually burns?

 

[solarwave]

I believe in a God of unlimited love with never ending love. If I am so evil that I must to hell without hope of repentance then my heart must be black and I deserve it.

Few people act as if they believe people they see walking down the street are in danger of hell.

 

[NZEN]

The same way I cope with the thought of being captured by Sauron, the Dark Lord, and taken to his Halls of Lamentation for torture.

How do you deal with that thought?


eudaimonia,

Mark

I love the way you express your certainty that Hell is not where you will go after death. My question was asking how you reach this level of certainty.

The thing is, from time to time things can shake my certainty that there is no Hell.

For example, I read somewhere that someone was digging a hole and breached the gates of hell, and heard screamy noises.

While I know how stupid this sounds, to consider myself a logical, reasonable, rational person, I must investigate this before I can dismiss it (In the end it turned out the screams were from some movie).

Considering how many people believe in Hell is also unsettling, and at times disturbing. Even if their belief is wrong, this is bad (It's bad if it's true and it's bad if they're wrong). The thing is, it's a big gamble.

On top of that there's no way to be sure what actually happens.

For a while I was happy to believe that I was immortal (Along with all consciousness), because if we come from nowhere we can come back from nowhere, and if we come from somewhere, it's still technically eternal life (Since an infinite line can have one endpoint).

Then, this inner peace was shaken by fear of eternal suffering. Hence, me this seeking reassurance.

 

[GrowingSmaller]

I would like to know how people, especially those who doubt hell, cope with the possibility of a place of eternal torment believed in by so many.

As I learned a lesson from a internet philosopher "Kennethamy" that merely being possible is not a good reason to believe a statement. I could be dreaming when I think I am awake, Martians could be secretly running government, suffering in hell could go on for ever etc. These things are "logically possible" (i.e. stateing them does not entail a contradiction), but being possible in this sense is no good reason to actuually believe them.

Or IIRC as Eudaimonist says is not what we can't rule out that matters when thinking of forming a concept of reality, it's what we can rule in that gives us the more reliable picture.

 

[juvenissun]

I never really understood the concept of eternal pain, suffering, burning, torment, etc. in Hell anyway. All of those descriptors are dependent on our physical bodies (nerves, brain, neurons and synapses, etc.). Once we die and no longer have a functioning body (and assuming that a "soul" is then disconnected from the body), how can one "feel" anything? If someone is going to "burn in Hell", what actually burns?

Your questions are "consequences" of a fundamental concept: The recognition of life after life. If you do not accept that, then your questions are all empty.

If you have a life after this life, what would that life be look like? a life of no feeling?

 

[ToddNotTodd]

For example, I read somewhere that someone was digging a hole and breached the gates of hell, and heard screamy noises.

While I know how stupid this sounds, to consider myself a logical, reasonable, rational person, I must investigate this before I can dismiss it (In the end it turned out the screams were from some movie).

Nooooooo.....

Logical and reasonable people know that they don't have time to explore every extraordinary claim, since the number of these claims can be infinite. You'd be effectively paralyzed if you found the need to investigate all claims.

 

[SharonL]

I don't think much about hell - because my Bible says if we believe and repent of our sins that we will be in Heaven. But if you don't believe - it doesn't matter - there is still hell and a person will go there unless they are a Child of God.

It is something a non-believer should worry about - it is not a pretty picture - hell was not made for man, but for the devil and his angels and if a person chooses to go to hell because of non belief, that is not God's fault, it is our choice.

 

[ToddNotTodd]

I don't think much about hell - because my Bible says if we believe and repent of our sins that we will be in Heaven. But if you don't believe - it doesn't matter - there is still hell and a person will go there unless they are a Child of God.

It is something a non-believer should worry about - it is not a pretty picture - hell was not made for man, but for the devil and his angels and if a person chooses to go to hell because of non belief, that is not God's fault, it is our choice.

Are you worried about going to the Islamic hell, or the hell of any other religion? Why or why not?

 

[SharonL]

Are you worried about going to the Islamic hell, or the hell of any other religion? Why or why not?

I don't worry about going to hell - I am a Child of God. There is only one hell.

 

[Tinker Grey]

You seem to be missing the point, Sharon. If you don't worry about an Islamic hell, why would you think an atheist would be concerned with the Christian version of hell.

 

[Antarctika]

It is something a non-believer should worry about - it is not a pretty picture - hell was not made for man, but for the devil and his angels and if a person chooses to go to hell because of non belief, that is not God's fault, it is our choice.

This argument, albeit often used, is completely worthless.

You don't choose to believe. You can't force yourself. If you do it's not a true belief, but merely an intellectual dishonesty.

Given the Bible, along with the Quran, make no sense to me, I don't believe what they say, and therefore I'm not scared at all of what they try to threaten me with.

 

[variant]

I would like to know how people, especially those who doubt hell, cope with the possibility of a place of eternal torment believed in by so many.

Certain depictions of hell are quite frightening, but I find reading certain books can make the fear go as fast as it came, if not faster.

Eternal torment is a dumb idea dreamt up to keep gullible people feeding the donation baskets.

Because God needs bling, it makes him happy.

Seriously, if I would never punish anyone with eternal punishment for anything, why is a God who supposedly of superior morality capable of judgeing me to the same fate for the simple act of non-belief in what I consider a rediculous idea?

And if that is the case why not make himself more feasable or evident and not rely on scare stories? The all powerful creator of the universe has to rely on scareing people into believeing in him, it feeds their "just in case" morality so that it can fill heaven with spineless noodle wristed theologans, who are unwilling to simply state what they do and don't believe?

Really?

 

[Nanopants]

Eternal torment is a dumb idea dreamt up to keep gullible people feeding the donation baskets.

Because God needs bling, it makes him happy.

As much as I hate teachings on giving mandatory tithes to the church, I have to say that that is not a fair or accurate depiction of the Christian faith.

Seriously, if I would never punish anyone with eternal punishment for anything, why is a God who supposedly of superior morality capable of judgeing me to the same fate for the simple act of non-belief in what I consider a rediculous idea?

And if that is the case why not make himself more feasable or evident and not rely on scare stories? The all powerful creator of the universe has to rely on scareing people into believeing in him, it feeds their "just in case" morality so that it can fill heaven with spineless noodle wristed theologans, who are unwilling to simply state what they do and don't believe?

Really?

No.

The Christian faith teaches that God does not rely on scare tactics. He revealed himself to us as Christ, who said "Be not afraid" over and over again, and deposed those who used legalism and scare tactics in their ignorance.

The problem is most Christians fail to believe what Christ blatantly stated and get sucked back into the old and dark way of looking at things. Some of them are corrupt, but the vast majority really are scared of their own faith, and they perpetuate the ignorance through an unguided herd mentality.

 

[variant]

As much as I hate teachings on giving mandatory tithes to the church, I have to say that that is not a fair or accurate depiction of the Christian faith.

So, you are not threatened with eternal hell for unbelief and asked to give donations?

My 18 years with the church must have been a mirage.

The Christian faith teaches that God does not rely on scare tactics. He revealed himself to us as Christ, who said "Be not afraid" over and over again, and deposed those who used legalism and scare tactics in their ignorance.

Yet you come here and ask us why were not afraid of hell? It is a blatant scare tactic that you should be ashamed of advancing.

You have to justify a god that is just and morally superior AND hell if you are going to be a Christian, I can not, but that is not a problem because I am not one.

I don’t believe in it, it is a ridiculous notion that I do not have the ability to doublethink myself around.

 

[Nanopants]

So, you are not threatened with eternal hell for unbelief and asked to give donations?

My 18 years with the church must have been a mirage.



Yet you come here and ask us why were not afraid of hell? It is a blatant scare tactic that you should be ashamed of advancing.

You have to justify a god that is just and morally superior AND hell if you are going to be a Christian, I can not, but that is not a problem because I am not one.

I don’t believe in it, it is a ridiculous notion that I do not have the ability to doublethink myself around.

I don't believe in hell either. Actually, the belief in hell leads to a logical fallacy and is disproven as far as I'm concerned. I don't think that's what people call double think.

I haven't studied the passages concerning hell in a while now, so I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure that all references to anything hell-like in the gospels are simply allegory and parable. It isn't until you get to Revelation, which blatantly displays the dualistic shift in the assumption of God's character which I was talking about, that you find anything that resembles our common notion of it.

 

[variant]

I don't believe in hell either. Actually, the belief in hell leads to a logical fallacy and is disproven as far as I'm concerned. I don't think that's what people call double think.

Oh sorry, got my wires crossed. I must be in a foul mood.

Doublethink.

Believing in something that objectively makes no sense to you because you think you have to and you need to justify it to yourself.

Read some Calvin on hell and a loving god while in a cycnical mood and you'll get what I'm saying about double-think.

I haven't studied the passages concerning hell in a while now, so I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure that all references to anything hell-like in the gospels are simply allegory and parable. It isn't until you get to Revelation, which blatantly displays the dualistic shift in the assumption of God's character which I was talking about, that you find anything that resembles our common notion of it.

I'm aware.

I just accept what is popularly understood to be Christianity to be Christianity, even with all the extras.

I don't think rediscovering the proper intentions of the document 2000 years later and magically having it line up with modern morality is going to cut it with my BS detector.