How some creationists pushed me away from christianity

[Skaloop]

I agree. Here is another thing, what if you decided to call that number and Jason answered. Then you could say, well that isn't the sign I asked for. Room for doubt...yes?

Still pretty specific, so it'd be tough to dismiss. But say it was another number, from the same area code, asking for Jim. So same region, same initial. Should I accept that as a sign? Even if it happens far into the future?

 

[Oncedeceived]

OK, what would you say to this (which is what happened):

I was trying to think of a good example of a really specific thing that could happen to make me question my views about God-given signs. As I was thinking, my cell phone rang. It was a number I didn't recognize, but I answered. The guy apologized for the wrong number. So, that's why I decided to use a wrong number situation for my example.

Now, some might call that in itself a sign, by giving me the inspiration. And if so, should the specific number and name I mentioned ever come up, it would be an ever bigger deal. Essentially, it comes down to sending me a sign that I wouldn't recognize as a sign (since wrong numbers are far from uncommon) in order to set me up for a sign that I would recognize as one!

Just thought of something about that last thing I said, so you call and Jason answers and you decide that even thought this was exactly the sign you asked for but it is so close it convinces you. Then you come here and people start to say things like...how many Jason's are in the world? Lots. So your chances of getting Jason are really quite good. Just a thought

 

[Delphiki]

I sometimes still have trouble believing that while a religion's dogma puts lying up there as one of the worst possible things you could do, it's followers still insist that they've talked personally with God in a manner that they claim couldn't be attributed to desperate imagination or mental illness. You know you've never talked to God directly, so why keep lying about it? You know every single one of you who might speak in tongues at church is faking it, but you do it anyway because you fear that all the other fakers aren't faking it.

Quit being dishonest with yourselves and open your eyes and your minds to reality. It's actually a much much larger and wondrous universe than the one described as being created by God in your holy book.

So many of you have already doubted, you just repress it. "What would my parents do? What would my friends do?"

The reason it's so difficult to take those Christians that are so afraid that they claim to believe in the literal account of Genesis seriously is because I know that you're either mad or lying.

I know you think the creation story and the flood story are ridiculously impossible, and that you've never see one proof of God. I know that you see the beauty in the universe and know that you know it's all really there. Why waste your life lying to yourself and others?

Sorry, everyone.. feeling a little "soapbox-y".

 

[FrenchyBearpaw]

YES or NO -- did Darwin [hopefully] make a deathbed conversion?

In your opinion, of course.

Convert to what, exactly, in your opinion?

 

[Oncedeceived]

Still pretty specific, so it'd be tough to dismiss. But say it was another number, from the same area code, asking for Jim. So same region, same initial. Should I accept that as a sign? Even if it happens far into the future?

I think that might be stretching it.

 

[Oncedeceived]

Still pretty specific, so it'd be tough to dismiss. But say it was another number, from the same area code, asking for Jim. So same region, same initial. Should I accept that as a sign? Even if it happens far into the future?

But now because you have said this, what if that exact thing happened?

 

[Skaloop]

But now because you have said this, what if that exact thing happened?

Good point! But I could come up with countless other variations on the theme, and each time it reduces the possibility of it being a sign. A number off by two digits, from James. A number off by three digits, from Mason. If I make enough predictions, one is sure to come out right (or at least, close enough to being almost sort of right).

 

[Oncedeceived]

Good point! But I could come up with countless other variations on the theme, and each time it reduces the possibility of it being a sign. A number off by two digits, from James. A number off by three digits, from Mason. If I make enough predictions, one is sure to come out right (or at least, close enough to being almost sort of right).

I agree.

 

[selfinflikted]

...God always leaves room for doubt.

Why? What's the point in that?

 

[Skaloop]

Why? What's the point in that?

Free will, of course.

 

[selfinflikted]

Free will, of course.

Rubbish. That would in no way take away my choice to believe it.

When god and Jesus were so very present in Biblical times, were the peoples' free will compromised then?

 

[Oncedeceived]

Why? What's the point in that?

God always wants it to be a choice.

 

[selfinflikted]

God always wants it to be a choice.

Even if he left no doubt, the choice would still be there. I don't follow that logic.

 

[Skaloop]

Why? What's the point in that?

Free will, of course.

Rubbish. That would in no way take away my choice to believe it.

God always wants it to be a choice.

Told ya.

 

[Simply_Amazing]

Yes, true. I could say that the United States was at its best, Christians were pretty united in faith, at least in most of the basic tenets of faith. That has changed, and some Christians have decided that those things that were once considered tenets of the faith are not. Our culture has changed and so has the way some in our faith have come to believe. I think that has something to do with it, but that is just opinion. Again, no proof, just thoughts.

Uh, no. Quality of life has vastly improved as the U.S. has moved to become a secular nation.

You misunderstood what I said. I said God sees death differently, not Christians.

How does he see it differently?

I guess that would depend on what you mean by uncommon.

Not unusual.

 

[selfinflikted]

Told ya.

Reps inc.

 

[Oncedeceived]

Even if he left no doubt, the choice would still be there. I don't follow that logic.

He likes when we choose Him even when it seems to hard to do so. It allows us to learn to love Him rather than just worship without feelings. He loves us so He wants us to be able to love Him too.

 

[Oncedeceived]

Told ya.

So you have been listening.

 

[AV1611VET]

So you have been listening.

God bless, sis!

Stay the course!

 

[selfinflikted]

He likes when we choose Him even when it seems to hard to do so. It allows us to learn to love Him rather than just worship without feelings. He loves us so He wants us to be able to love Him too.

Kinda hard to love someone when you aren't sure they exist.