How some creationists pushed me away from christianity

[Non sequitur]

The data is between your ears if you will listen to it.

And again, begging the question.

Or do you not understand what that means and what you are doing is wrong?

 

[Paul 5]

On the contrary, I made a determined effort for many years to believe in God, but I really was not able to. Try, right now, to sincerely believe that your God doesn't exist, and that Allah is the one true god. I guarantee you won't be able to do it, no matter how hard you try. Why assume I would be able to change my beliefs any more easily?

As for your evidence that there must be a creator, I have never seen anything that convinces me there needs to be a creator, much less the specific version worshipped by the ancient Israelites.

Nothing in this world needs a creator?, all the incredible forms of life,the beauty,the wonder of falling in love,man did not make any of those things...so if not he than who? Listen,you do not have to make yourself believe in God,you just need to be willing to search for God.

 

[Paul 5]

And again, begging the question.

Or do you not understand what that means and what you are doing is wrong?

I recognize that what you are doing is wrong,you have let a bunch of fruitcakes convince you to accept their ideas rather than observe what is around you and make up your own mind. The human mind will naturally accept that our world is a creation,you have been programned by a bunch of ninnies to reject your own mind and accept their distorted picture of our world.

 

[Ar Cosc]

Nothing in this world needs a creator?, all the incredible forms of life,the beauty,the wonder of falling in love,man did not make any of those things...

Why would they need a creator? Why couldn't they happen naturally? There's no proof, just your opinion. You're obviously perfectly entitled to that, but it's not evidence of anything.

Listen,you do not have to make yourself believe in God,you just need to be willing to search for God.

I was actively searching for almost two decades. I found nothing, and many of the atheists on these boards have similar stories.

 

[Non sequitur]

I recognize that what you are doing is wrong,you have let a bunch of fruitcakes convince you to accept their ideas rather than observe what is around you and make up your own mind. The human mind will naturally accept that our world is a creation,you have been programned by a bunch of ninnies to reject your own mind and accept their distorted picture of our world.

I'll accept that as a yes, you know that you are using logical fallacies.

(I sure wish you guys wouldn't do that. You'd make better points and arguments for things, if you didn't, and people might understand what you are talking about.)

 

[Mr. Pedantic]

I already explained that. Belief in people is about credibility, not existence.

So basically...special pleading?

No.

Why not?

You will not find such historians to give you that degree of evidence about Julius Caesar. Are you now going to doubt his existence as well?

Good luck with that.

Julius Caesar was mentioned extensively by the writings of Cicero, Aulus Hirtius, Catullus, Cato, Gaius Oppius, etc. In addition, his main works, the commentaries of his military campaigns, are also referenced by other historians.

Can't be done.

You can't make me believe the sun does not exist, because I know it does. If someone else happens to be a permanent troglodyte, and is unwilling to step outside and see for themselves, then that is not my concern.

You know the Sun exists because there is evidence.

Five minutes on Google and you conclude I must be making this stuff up?

Riiiiiiight.

For a pedant you are remarkably shallow in your research methodology.

Considerably more than five minutes. And since I get institutional access to medical databases like PubMed, I would say that my search was far more comprehensive than you are trying to represent. Straw man. On the other hand...where is your evidence?

The truth Mr Pedantic is that as a Christian ,I find any one who cannot go
beyond quoting their interpretation of the bible enough to turn me off.
Quoting the bible never made anyone a true Christian.
Seeing someone live their life with care of their family ,their neighbour
having intelligent enquiry,open discussion,common sense based on observed behaviours,
and wisdom ,and relating that to the new testament in particular,what Jesus Himself says.
The story of Lucifer is also in ancient Indian religion,and I take my knowledge from there,
about who he was, and what he represented.
It is measureable,and makes sense,and I like making sense.
Believe me God makes sense,it just that not many bible Christians do.
When you have studied widely,you see that God is very logical,
and maybe we can take it further some time ,but I am off to bed,
so happy thinking .

Well said.

An atheist is someone who believes that there is no God. As far as I am aware this is not a sin per se, because belief is morally neutral. You can no more choose to believe than I can choose not to believe.

This is wrong. Purely wrong. Just like most people do not have negative belief in the all-knowing milk jug, atheists do not have negative belief in god. There is an absence of belief. And yes, there is a difference.

Mr.P: You are faced with the reality of this world,you can believe that a power greater than ourselves created it or you can believe another reason for its existence,however you cannot deny that our world is a reality.

I never said it wasn't. And that is the worrying thing; that you are telling me that our world is based on reality, and yet you still have the dogmatic belief?

When humans have went away from the possiblity of a creator then they have produced ideas that end in puffs of smoke,they cannot explain our correct environment,nor the force that causes life to exist,actually all they can do is observe the processes of life and comment on them.

Must I say this in every single post? YOU NEED TO PROVIDE EVIDENCE TO LEND CREDENCE TO YOUR CLAIMS.

Sure you can, our world screams at us that it is a creation,it takes a determined effort to live in this world and believe that a creator does not exist, atheism is not natural to the human mind. The ancients were wrong in that they thought that some big person in the sky was making it thunder,however the ancients were not wrong in that they recognized that an intelligent power had to be behind our world.

No, it doesn't. How do you tell? And how can you know that it is different to how a randomly-created universe would be structured?

Nothing in this world needs a creator?, all the incredible forms of life,the beauty,the wonder of falling in love,man did not make any of those things...so if not he than who? Listen,you do not have to make yourself believe in God,you just need to be willing to search for God.

That is not evidence at all.

I recognize that what you are doing is wrong,you have let a bunch of fruitcakes convince you to accept their ideas rather than observe what is around you and make up your own mind. The human mind will naturally accept that our world is a creation,you have been programned by a bunch of ninnies to reject your own mind and accept their distorted picture of our world.

Do you not understand what begging the question is?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Begging_the_question

Please try keep up.

 

[British Bulldog]

The data is between your ears if you will listen to it.

No, it is between your ears, but when you try and tell us what that data is all we hear is "there must be", which isn't very convincing.

 

[selfinflikted]

I am sorry, darling, that one is simply not going to happen, and never was.

How about; 'Thank you, Lord, that I am perfectly and wonderfully made.'

No wonder things got so confused.

I prayed for many years at one time, for the Lord to mend my marriage, and to help my h overcome his alcohol addiction. Nothing. Eventually I realised that there is no good praying against God's will, and I learned instead to use, 'Thy will be done.' Then I kicked the ex out and divorced him, and there was God, saying, 'It took you long enough, but at least you got there in the end.'

If you are saying god made me gay according to his plan and he is satisfied with that.. then, that would be a first and I can't possibly rep you enough.

 

[Greg1234]

We're just waiting for your god to make a personal appearance...

When you're done, go on a mountain and wait for the atom. Don't worry, I'll wait.

 

[Greg1234]

Why would they need a creator? Why couldn't they happen naturally? There's no proof, just your opinion. You're obviously perfectly entitled to that, but it's not evidence of anything.

Darwinism doesn't count.

I was actively searching for almost two decades. I found nothing, and many of the atheists on these boards have similar stories.

That's a very sad story. There are some people who will never be as strong as Arnold with the same amount of exercise, they'll never reach the moon, having flown in the highest jets, they'll never be as good as Einstein, with the same degree of study. It's all very sad. But they're in luck. Because all they need to do is show that the moon is within the atmosphere, provide evidence for the muscles-are-actually-taped-on-sponge theory, and show that Einstein was hallucinating. In your case, the random assembly of robotics.

 

[Ar Cosc]

Darwinism doesn't count.

Doesn't count as what?

That's a very sad story. There are some people who will never be as strong as Arnold with the same amount of exercise, they'll never reach the moon, having flown in the highest jets, they'll never be as good as Einstein, with the same degree of study. It's all very sad. But they're in luck. Because all they need to do is show that the moon is within the atmosphere, provide evidence for the muscles-are-actually-taped-on-sponge theory, and show that Einstein was hallucinating. In your case, the random assembly of robotics.

This makes no sense.

 

[British Bulldog]

When you're done, go on a mountain and wait for the atom. Don't worry, I'll wait.

Is God really small then?

 

[British Bulldog]

That's a very sad story. There are some people who will never be as strong as Arnold with the same amount of exercise, they'll never reach the moon, having flown in the highest jets, they'll never be as good as Einstein, with the same degree of study. It's all very sad. But they're in luck. Because all they need to do is show that the moon is within the atmosphere, provide evidence for the muscles-are-actually-taped-on-sponge theory, and show that Einstein was hallucinating. In your case, the random assembly of robotics.

So you're saying you are a cross between Arnold Schwarzeneger, Neil Armstrong and Einstein?

 

[Non sequitur]

When you're done, go on a mountain and wait for the atom. Don't worry, I'll wait.

I wasn't aware your god was limited to mountain tops.

 

[Oncedeceived]

I don't know, Christians on the one hand, atheists on the other.

Here you are, dear. Satan does not believe that Christ is the Son of God, and tries to sow doubt in Christ's mind as well.

Fortunately he does not succeed.

Matthew 4:6



I will let you check out the rest of the story for yourself. Satan does not believe in Christ, which is why he hates him so much. If he had believed in Christ as the Son of God he would not have dared to try to tempt him.

Satan has dominion over this world, and the people in it, and therefore assumes he has dominion over Christ. He hasn't.

This is the strangest thing I think I have ever heard. Satan doesn't know who God is? That goes completely against Scripture.

 

[Oncedeceived]

We're just waiting for your god to make a personal appearance...

He did you just don't believe it.

 

[selfinflikted]

He did you just don't believe it.

Why should we?

 

[Non sequitur]

He did you just don't believe it.

A personal appearance implies in-person. Physically.

This has never happened.

 

[Skaloop]

A personal appearance implies in-person. Physically.

This has never happened.

I'm pretty sure he means Jesus.

 

[Non sequitur]

I'm pretty sure he means Jesus.

Probably.

Still holds, though. I said "waiting for", which is in the current tense, indicating it hasn't happened yet.

One doesn't wait for the sun to come up when it's 2pm.