Do you agree that christians should keep the 10 Commandments? (4)

[from scratch]

You will not find the written letter to keep and obey the law in the verses I gave, but if you don't understand that the intention is clearly read, all men are subjected to the law of God, then it is up to you to ignore that.

If you try to ignore the clear meaning of each given text or combined text, then you will never find the intention of the author.

I just give few example to proof that all men are subjected to the law of God, and you ignore the clear intention in those verses by giving another text to refute, which I can proof is also having not the same meaning as what you think.

Surely Festus was right stating Paul is mad.

 

[Arthur57]

Originally Posted by MamaZ

If you walk in the Spirit you will not do the works of the flesh.
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__________________
All of 5

How about those who don't believe they are under jurisdiction of the eternal moral law of God?

Walk in the Spirit is a walk of obedience to the law of God, can they never comprehend this? Otherwise how can the righteousness of the law fulfilled in them (Romans 8:104)? By magic? is Christ a magician?

According to the Scripture, at this end of time, spiritism and occultism and hypnotism, magic etc will find it glory, and many of our Christian brother will be swept away.

 

[Arthur57]

Surely Festus was right stating Paul is mad.

Or the reader of his letters, for I believe Paul is the apostle of God.

 

[11822]

Surely Festus was right stating Paul is mad.

Nope. Some people just misunderstand Paul.

 

[from scratch]

You will not find the written letter to keep and obey the law in the verses I gave, but if you don't understand that the intention is clearly read, all men are subjected to the law of God, then it is up to you to ignore that.

If you try to ignore the clear meaning of each given text or combined text, then you will never find the intention of the author.

I just give few example to proof that all men are subjected to the law of God, and you ignore the clear intention in those verses by giving another text to refute, which I can proof is also having not the same meaning as what you think.

Ah so! Is this a confession that I'm correct? So then are you misleading us? Romans 2:14 doesn't show or imply obligation the covenant of the Israelites.

 

[Arthur57]

Originally Posted by MamaZ

Jesus said love love and love..

And He even empowered us to do so by His spirit.

I am not an Isrealite. I am a new creation in Christ Jesus.
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Me too! Now we need a me three and more.

And when I asked them what LOVE is, they come back again citing the Ten cs, for there is no other law in the whole Scripture that describe what law is. How can they citing a law to means what love is when they believe this law already nailed to the cross of Christ more then 2,000 years ago? What you call these kind of people?

They believe and insist that the law was nailed to the cross more then 2,000 years ago, but they too accept and believe that this law is a school master to bring them to Christ for justification by faith, and just when faith come, they are no longer under a tutor.

But the Scripture has confined all under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. 23 But before faith came, we were kept under guard by the law, kept for the faith which would afterward be revealed. 24 Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor. Galatians 3:22-25.

So, how can they believe that a law was nailed to the cross 2,000 years ago, in the same time believing that the same law was a schoolmaster to bring unbeliever to Christ, and just when they announce their faith in Christ, this day the law ended for them. So, when their brother or mother is an unbeliever till today, the same will be the law existence for them till today, till faith come from them.

What a mix and confuse believe.

 

[sheina]

Jesus said love love and love.. And He even empowered us to do so by His spirit. I am not an Isrealite. I am a new creation in Christ Jesus.

Me too! Now we need a me three and more.

Me three

 

[Arthur57]

FOR THOSE WHO BELIEVE THEY ARE NOT UNDER THE JURISDICTION OF THE TEN COMMANDMENT.

Made up your mind!

Is the law nailed to the cross more then 2,000 years ago,

or

just nailed when faith came?

Today, maybe next month, maybe end of time because there would be many unbelievers till that day.

Picking up both to justify your believe that it is both ways, is a mixed and confused believe.

 

[sheina]

Galatians 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

Galatians 3:25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

What is "that faith" in verse 25? Once you have determined what "that faith" is, then you will hopefully (?) understand why we are no longer under the jurisdiction of the OT law (our schoolmaster). The INTENDED PURPOSE of the OT law has been established through our FAITH in Christ Jesus. The OT law was nailed to the cross of Chrst 2000 years ago, but only when a person comes to FAITH in Christ is the OT law is established FOR ITS INTENDED PURPOSE.

 

[11822]

Galatians 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

Galatians 3:25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

What is "that faith" in verse 25? Once you have determined what "that faith" is, then you will hopefully (?) understand why we are no longer under the jurisdiction of the OT law (our schoolmaster). The INTENDED PURPOSE of the OT law has been established through our FAITH in Christ Jesus. The OT law was nailed to the cross of Chrst 2000 years ago, but only when a person comes to FAITH in Christ is the OT law is established FOR ITS INTENDED PURPOSE.

The NT has law. Its not new and Christ took it from the OT. Not the whole OT but some of it. You can post all the out of context scripture you want about the OT law not being Christian law but it doesn't change the fact that Christs law came from the OT.

 

[sheina]

The NT has law. Its not new and Christ took it from the OT. Not the whole OT but some of it. You can post all the out of context scripture you want about the OT law not being Christian law but it doesn't change the fact that Christs law came from the OT.

The reason the law came from the Old Testament is because the entire Old Testament was FULFILLED in Christ in the New Testament. The Christian is not bound to the OT law. Why do you have such a passion to bind yourself to the OT law? And with that passion, try and pull others back from the "law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus" to the "law of sin and death" from which we have all been freed?

 

[from scratch]

As I said, you will not find a written wording "obey the law or observe the law, but the intention of those text or combined text by the author is acknowledgment that all men are subject to the law of God, means are under the jurisdiction of the law. Col. 2:16 is not cancelling God's weekly Sabbath, but Israel annual sabbath celebration of feast days. The law for Christians to observe is not the law of Moses but the law of God, His Ten Cs. 1 Tim 1:9,10 does not say that righteous men are not under the jurisdiction of the law, it says that those law is not for the righteous. Why not? Because they already did what the law demands, therefore they are righteous, otherwise they are still law breakers, murderer, etc.

And you're dividing the law. I don't see how because the forbidding of murder is surely one of the 10 Cs. Isn't lying also covered in the 10 Cs? How about stealing? What about a whoremonger? Isn't that adultery? Now who is the law for? Is my reading that bad? Or are you trying to insult me?

Under the law means under condemnation of the law, not under the law means not under condemnation of the law. Christ is the end of the law for law keepers, in order they might reach perfect righteousness through faith in Him. It doesn't says, Christ cancelled the law because of faith.

Where do you get this idea from? It can't possibly be the word under. I can't find any definition that says under means condemnation. Paul says to throw the law out and uses a woman to illustrate. I have ask what part of a woman was Paul talking about? I bet he meant the whole woman and not a part of her. Don't ya just love Paul? I do!!!!

Sure it is, because in chapter 2 all men were brought by Paul under subjection of the law. In Chapter 3, because of their carnal nature, all men (the who world) are under condemnation of the law, and since no man could present righteousness before God, not also by their perfect obedience to the letter which is self righteousness, God gave a way out, a righteousness of Christ to those who believe. This is prepared because they couldn't present it, but once living by faith, they will have the obedience of faith that fulfill the law demands, for the law still demanded righteousness, no matter how you will provide it. The proof of the law existence that demand righteousness, is the law doers will be justified (Rom. 2:13) and The law doers have the right to enter heaven and eat the fruit of life (Rev. 22:14).

Not in the sense you imply. The law was not given to and doesn't apply to the Gentiles or Gentile Christians - Acts 15. Were the Gentiles circumcised already? No! Did they keep the sabbath already? Again No! Paul wasn't talking about converts or proselytes in mentioning the Gentiles in Chapter 2.

What is Paul purpose of admitting that the law exist, just to look at it and doing nothing? That is what he said "the hearers of the law."

Ah you do believe that establish in 31 means the law exists.

If I admit that there is a traffic light on the cross road, should I pretend there is not and keep driving when it is red? If I see there is a bridge connecting two sides of the river, should I pretend not having seen it and take a swim to cross the river instead of walking through the bridge?

In the language of metaphors yes that is what you're trying to do. I'll use the bridge (Jesus). Problem is you will drown and I won't even get wet.

Same, if Paul admit the law exist, shall he pretend there is no law and reject its existence?

Did I say there was no river?

If you study the bible this way, you will never find the truth of the Gospel of Christ.

I don't. So does that mean you do? After all we do oppose each other. Paul says very plainly that one can't have both. You defend the law so I assume that is what you have chosen. It ain't my problem. It does become a problem when you try to get others to take your view. Truth and grace came by Jesus John 1:17. I also noticed that the law came by Moses. Grace didn't come by Moses or the law.

Wrong! Paul said if you are really converted people through true repentance, you should live according to the faith, no longer living according to the flesh, but living a life for God. Being justified believer by faith, they surrendered themselves under the grace of God, which teach them to live godly and righteously (Titus 2:11-14) to only one standard of righteousness - His own law written by His own finger - The Ten Cs. Being justified believers walking in the path of righteousness, they are not under the law condemnation, and if they sin, the grace of God and his mercy will forgive their sin if they repent. They remain under grace and not under condemnation, but if they continue in sinning and making grace as a license to sin, then they will come under condemnation. if they remain under grace, which mean, they remain in their walk of faith in the path of righteousness as to the law, sin lost its dominion over them, and they are not under the law condemnation (v.14), but this is not a permit to break the law (v. 15).

Paul doesn't say anything about living according to or by the faith. He does say live by faith.

Living soberly and righteously doesn't imply obligation to the law. Incidence isn't obedience. I've referenced and quoted from Galatians 5 to no avial.

Rom 7:5,6 - Compares those who lived by the flesh where sins were revealed by the law and brought death, to those mentioned in chapter 6, the true believer living under grace, whom were delivered from the law condemnation, that once held them in death sentence, to serve the law with the newness of the Spirit, with the mind that is the mind of Christ(Rom. 7:25), and no longer in the oldness of the letter, which is legalistic self righteousness.

What does v 5 say? - the motions of sin, which were by the law... how very interesting. Motions that do what? The word condemnation isn't in v 6 in my Bible.

What does Paul say the flesh does in verse 25? You already told me what the spirit or soul does.

Paul says nothing about Christian are delivered from an obligation to keep the law.

What sad news. We read different Bibles.

 

[11822]

The reason the law came from the Old Testament is because the entire Old Testament was FULFILLED in Christ in the New Testament. The Christian is not bound to the OT law. Why do you have such a passion to bind yourself to the OT law? And with that passion, try and pull others back from the "law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus" to the "law of sin and death" from which we have all been freed?

We are commanded to abstain from adultery, it came from the OT but its also in the NT because its new covenant law. Its that simple.

 

[Studious One]

What's the question?

The question is... have you trusted Jesus Christ for Salvation?

If yes, then quit looking to the Law. Look upon Christ and live.

If you look to the Law for Salvation you will die, for in choosing to walk in the Law, one has to reject the Spirit that freed us from the Law.

Life is not found in the Law. Paul said when the Law came, sin revived and he died. Life is only found in Christ. If we look to Him for life, walking in His Spirit of perfect peace and liberty, we will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh. And if we are not fulfilling the lusts of the flesh, we have no need to be in bondage to the Law.

 

[11822]

What's the question?

The question is... have you trusted Jesus Christ for Salvation?

If yes, then quit looking to the Law. Look upon Christ and live.

If you look to the Law for Salvation you will die, for in choosing to walk in the Law, one has to reject the Spirit that freed us from the Law.

Im living by the words of Christ and His apostles. Your context doesn't fit.

 

[11822]

There was no question, so what am I supposedly avoiding? The simple fact is this: you and some of the others are adding law and works to the Gospel of grace....and by doing do you and those others are promoting "another gospel" (Galatians 1:8-9)

Actually i asked you the question in the other thread concerning galatians and circumcision.

Im adding nothing. The apostles and Jesus teach the same thing and thats the law im talking about. Are you telling me Gods commandment to abstain from adultery isn't Gods will?

 

[11822]

Your question was answered in the other thread...and of course, you rejected the answer


By adding your incessant "lists" of commandments (the other 6 commandments from the OT), you certainly are adding to the Gospel of grace. BTW, fornication is not one of the 10 commandments.

The question doesn't appear to be answered. I did not see the answer.


The commandments are taught in the NT. And your needle is also stuck in a groove, is just as ceaseless as mine my incessant sister.

 

[sheina]

The question doesn't appear to be answered. I did not see the answer.

The question was answered and you rejected the answer. You best get a better pair of glasses.
Here's my response:

http://www.christianforums.com/t7562837-7/#post57598731

And here is your rejection of my answer.

http://www.christianforums.com/t7562837-7/#post57598785

The commandments are taught in the NT. And your needle is also stuck in a groove, is just as ceaseless as mine my incessant sister.

OK...listen up sir. Your "groove" is in the law. My "groove" is in Christ. You keep teaching about the NT law, and I will continue to "walk in the Spirit" and praise the Lord that He has freed me from the bondage of sin. I don't continue in a lifestyle of sin...why? Because Christ has set me free. (Romans 8:1-5) The born again Christian doesn't need to be continually reminded about what sin and the works of the flesh are. As long as the he continues to "walk in the Spirit" those "sins and works of the flesh" will not be manifest.

Why do you continually dwell on sin, the works of the flesh (there are 17 listed in Galatians 5:19-21) and how Jesus, Paul, and the other apostles teach 6 of the OT commandments in the NT? Do you realize there is a "way out" of this bondage? His Name is Jesus Christ. Dwell on Him instead of reminding everyone about their sin. I think everyone is getting tired of reading about their sin...so why not post some solutions to this "sin problem" . Listing commandments isn't going to cause people to stop sinning. Only Christ can do that. He sets the captives free.

 

[MamaZ]

He says this:

Mt 12:50 For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother

And this is the will of my Father, that you believe in the one that He sent. Nothing about obeying laws.

 

[MamaZ]

But do have any idea what that means?
"Walking in the Spirit", God's Spirit that is,
is walking the way Jesus walked in that same Spirit, and He walked accorrding to God's Laws, which is not doing the "works of the flesh".
This is too easy.

Read the fruit of the Spirit.