Do you agree that christians should keep the 10 Commandments? (4)

[11822]

What is fornication? I think it is sin. Maybe I don't think right. But I have both asked and stated that the Holy Spirit won't led one to sin and doesn't lead one to the law either. Galatians 5 is totally ignored and dismissed. Incidence isn't obedience. Love does no evil (wrong). One can't love and fornicate at the same time. If one is led of the Spirit they don't perform the lust of the flesh. Lust of the flesh is the natural state of man and has nothing to do with the law. The Christian isn't a natural state of man. That is why we have the war Paul talks about in Romans 7.

The whole NT seems to be ignored and dismissed. You seem to be arguing that i shouldn't post that abstaining fornication is a commandment. You seem to suggest i only post that we are free and have liberty which is not the complete doctrine. This isn't a thread for teaching grace only its a thread for discussing Grace and the law, specifically the 10Cs. Abstaining from fornication is more relevant than liberty in this case because it backs law from the 10Cs.

 

[from scratch]

Jas 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

You're right we are all guilty of breaking the whole law and thats why our faith is in Christ alone. But commandments are Gods will and He is our judge. Do i have faith? Yes so i like Abraham listen but at the same time depend on Christ. When im weak He is strong. Thats faith. Who has no sin even after Christ saves them? No one is sinless, our sin remains but will be blotted out. God is our Judge, He knows our heart. What can we hide from Him? He knows our sin better than we do. Let God be true and every man a liar.

Then we lose our justification every time the flesh sins and need to be redeemed all over again. The problem is that the flesh isn't redeemed. So what sins the flesh or the soul?

 

[Deut 5:29]

Then we lose our justification every time the flesh sins and need to be redeemed all over again. The problem is that the flesh isn't redeemed. So what sins the flesh or the soul?

What do you think a "soul" is?

 

[11822]

Then we lose our justification every time the flesh sins and need to be redeemed all over again. The problem is that the flesh isn't redeemed. So what sins the flesh or the soul?

We get forgiveness every time we sin and ask forgiveness and we must ask more than once. One time doesn't cover the rest of our life. Your argument does not pertain to what im talking about. It may not even be a sound argument in any case, but in this case does not pertain to my statement at all.

 

[from scratch]

Whatever is not of faith is sin. The Lord and His apostles tell us what faith allows in the written word of NT.

So does it take faith to be obedient to the law? Nope! Does that make the law sin? Interesting question when one thinks about it. It certianly isn't of faith, is it?

 

[from scratch]

Originally posted by From Scratch.


Thus if not obeying the 4th commandment is a violation one is unrighteous and can't have eternal life. But for this to be so the law has to have jurisdiction. It simply doesn't according to Jesus testimony recorded in 3 Gospels. Where does our righteousness come from? The law? Nope and per Jesus the righteousness that comes from the law won't qualify one for eternal life - Mat 5:20. This is also acknowledged by the rich young man of Mat 19. It comes only as a gift from God (Rom 6:23) courtesy of Jesus. And it can't be maintained by any other source - Gal 3:1-3. The part that makes this out of context is the definition - no rather the identification of commandment(s) spoken about. The idea that any time the word commandment(s) appears means the 10 Cs is a mistaken meaning demanded by a religion. I have illustrated this with John 15:10 and shown what the commandment of God is with I John 3:23. The same author wrote all the material cited including Revelation. The authors focus is primarily Jesus in relationship with God or to God. There is no demand to follow the OC in the NT/NC. Acts 15 makes a very strong statement to that fact. That statement doesn't come from Paul either. Therefore one can't say that Paul is teaching something contrary or detrimental to Christianity or a proper relationship with God. The 10 Cs aren't eternal as far as jurisdiction is concerned per Jer 31:31-34. To say that the law specifically the 10 Cs is God's all inclusive law is error. We have a problem with an exact replica of the tabernacle being in heaven IHMO.(QUOTE)

I don’t know your illustration about the commandment of God, but this is mine:

John 14:15 - If you love me, keep my commands.

John 15:10: If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commands and remain in his love.

1 John 3:23.
And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us.

Is love the commandment Jesus has in mind? Yes.

How should we show our love to God and to our neighbor?

Since the Ten Commandments is summarized in these two commands: Love God and Love your neighbor (Matthew 22:36-40), then, to show our love is BY DOING WHAT IS WRITTEN. Simple as that, twisting around on this simple truth will lead people further away from the true Gospel of Christ.


The commandment of God is the Ten Commandment which contains His great principle of unselfish love. No man can have love without doing what the letter says. If a man believe the letter was nailed at the cross, then he don’t know at all what love is. And if he thinks The Spirit will shed LOVE without him knowing what love is because he discard the law that tells him what love is, then he really needs a lot of Grace to guide his heart and mind.

What do you call those who says they didn't need the Ten Cs but admit that without the Ten Cs they doesn’t know how to perform what love is?

Paul was not a Hypocrite, he admits that the law reveals the sin in him; he admits that the law will always be a tutor to bring some one to Christ to be justified by faith. he admits that he keep the law, he admits that love to your neighbor fulfill the six commands on the 2nd stone tablets.

Is it hard to be the same as he was? To accept His teaching without restrain?

Well you quoted Jn 15:10. I don't understand a word you said in relationship to it and so failed to address the two differents sets of commandments mentioned in the verse.

 

[from scratch]

Originally Posted by from scratch

I still ask where the law is taught in the NT. Teaching from the law isn't teaching compliance to the law by any means.

Hey I think you are correct, scratch. Stick to your guns.

bugkiller.
(QUOTE)





Why should Paul the apostle taught about the law if not to clarify self righteousness against obedience of faith.



And what is obedience of faith, if not keeping the law, which law? The Ten Cs.

Where oh where does Paul direct the law for observance of the Christian? You said he teaches the law. I ask where does he teach obedience to the law for the Christian?

 

[sheina]

Not doing it will put us in Hell.

The only thing that will put anyone in Hell is rejection of the gift of eternal salvation in the Lord Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ paid the sin debt for all mankind IN FULL on the cross of Calvary. If anyone goes to hell, they go there with their sins ALREADY PAID FOR! All sin was judged at the cross...fornication included!

1 John 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

There are those who reject Christ and abstain from fornication...it's not our "good works" that qualify us for heaven. There will be many, many "good people" in Hell.

John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Ephesians 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

This doesn't give anyone license to go out and fornicate....liberty is NOT license. If someone is "willfully living in sin" it should be obvious that this person is not born again. Someone who is truly born again of the Spirit will NOT "CONTINUE" in a sinful lifestyle.

Romans 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?

Romans 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

 

[from scratch]

The New Covenant is God promise to write the law in a believer heart and put it in their mind.

What is His intention?

That carnally natured people, once become a believer might be transformed by the Spirit (Ezekiel 36:26,27; Titus 2:11,12) to brought them into subjection with the law of God, because carnal minded people is not subject to the law of God (Romans 8:7).

When he lived by his carnal mind, he was not subject to the law of God, he was in enmity against God. This means there is a law, which he was against, and need to be subjected, in order he might live. His deeds were against this law, means he break not only the letter of the law but also the great principle of unselfish love.

God promise to bring this people into subjection with his law once they believe in Christ, by writing the law on their heart and put it in their minds, which of course is not a literal act, but a saying that they will obey the law now and fulfill it demands, as their heart and mine now are of Christ, no longer carnal. They are no longer God enemies, but God’s children.

For there is a law that stands forever to be God’s standard of righteousness, the Ten Cs, to bring knowledge of sin to mankind.

Where is this that God promises to write the Sinatic covenant in any one's heart?

 

[sheina]

Where is this that God promises to write th Sinatic covenant in any one's heart?

The NC flows from Mt. Calvary, not Mt. Sinai.

 

[from scratch]

And LOVE is described in the Ten Cs. Without the Ten Cs there is no love, and no one new what love is. Are they smarter than God?

The Ten Cs summarized in the 2 great commands, love God and love your neighbor, for this Ten Cs has the great principle of unselfish love, this law described God's character, what he wants from man concerning their morality. If you love God, keep His Ten Commandments, that is the meaning of the verses you quoted.

Speaking of love, but denying the Ten Cs and rejecting it, is the same as speaking I have the spirit but not the body.

Would you kindly explain how the 10 Cs describe love?

 

[11822]

The only thing that will put anyone in Hell is rejection of the gift of eternal salvation in the Lord Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ paid the sin debt for all mankind IN FULL on the cross of Calvary. If anyone goes to hell, they go there with their sins ALREADY PAID FOR! All sin was judged at the cross...fornication included!



There are those who reject Christ and abstain from fornication...it's not our "good works" that qualify us for heaven. There will be many, many "good people" in Hell.

John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Ephesians 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.




Whats your point? Faith without works is not true faith. Only those that keep Gods commandments belong to Jesus. The rest are wannabe's according to Christs doctrine.

 

[from scratch]

It is amazing how we neglect simple language when we come to the bible. Even today we used the term law in the same manner. When we speak of the law in our day does it refer to any one specific law? Is not all laws referred to as "the law of the land." Are all the laws one package? Are the traffic laws a part of banking law? Don't we refer to all as "the law" regardless of which we refer to? We understand to which we speak of the context, don't we? Why is the same principle ignored with scripture? All is law but each has they specific sphere. The bible does not teach that all it"laws" are inseparable, that it is one package regardless. Not at all.


What is your aim? To come to a full knowledge of the truth or to demonstrate whit? Are you telling me that to have one God only ( the first of the 10C) is the same as circumcision? Not telling lies or stealing is equated with the passover? That written by God himself is the same as the civil laws?


So Jesus died for us not keeping the Festival of tents and the passover? Those are sins too?

What does James say? He says if you violate one aspect of the law you violate all the law. What is the difference? Violation of the law requires death. Stealling get the same penalty as adultery or murder. We classify sin - God doesn't.

To the last question - if you're obligated to the law, YES!

 

[from scratch]

It would seem to me that this phobia of the law existing comes from a fear that no one could be saved since no one can keep the law.

I don't think it is a phobia to the law. I think it is a matter of what covenant one is under.

 

[11822]

I don't think it is a phobia to the law. I think it is a matter of what covenant one is under.

You're confusing the NC with the OC brother.

 

[from scratch]

The only thing that will put anyone in Hell is rejection of the gift of eternal salvation in the Lord Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ paid the sin debt for all mankind IN FULL on the cross of Calvary. If anyone goes to hell, they go there with their sins ALREADY PAID FOR! All sin was judged at the cross...fornication included!

There are those who reject Christ and abstain from fornication...it's not our "good works" that qualify us for heaven. There will be many, many "good people" in Hell.

John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Ephesians 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.




Whats your point? Faith without works is not true faith. Only those that keep Gods commandments belong to Jesus. The rest are wannabe's according to Christs doctrine.

I don't fornicate so does that mean I abstain from fornication. No because my focus isn't to abstain from fornication. It is because I simply have no desire to fornicate. Why? I attribute it to the leading of the Holy Spirit.

Obedience to the law isn't the works that James describes.

 

[11822]

I don't fornicate so does that mean I abstain from fornication. No because my focus isn't to abstain from fornication. It is because I simply have no desire to fornicate. Why? I attribute it to the leading of the Holy Spirit.

Thats good for you scratch but Paul begs the brethren to abstian from it. He strongly urges them to obedience. Im just representing the word.

 

[from scratch]

You're confusing the NC with the OC brother.

How is that? Please explain.

 

[from scratch]

The NC flows from Mt. Calvary, not Mt. Sinai.

 

[sheina]

Whatever is not of faith is sin. The Lord and His apostles tell us what faith allows in the written word of NT.

The entire context of the 14th chapter of Romans deals with judging a weaker brother. In verse 23, in the partwhich you have quoted, means this:

A man should not do a thing doubting its correctness, but rather he should have a strong conviction that what he does is right; and that if he does not have this conviction, it is sinful. This rule has a universal application: In all cases, if a man does a thing which he does not believe to be right, it is a sin, and his conscience will condemn him for it. However, the opposite of this is not always true, that if a man believes a thing to be right, that therefore it is not sin.

Romans 14:23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.