Christians for 9/11 Truth

[thegospelisgoodnews]

Where is this big clump of molten steel and concrete? Direct me to where I can verify its existence. Put up or shut up. Until then, it remains a fact the no molten steel was found on site.

I can't post u-tube sites, maybe someone will help you, although I personally think it wouldn't matter if someone dropped a hot piece of molten steel and concrete in your hand, you would quickly say prove it came from the site, and disregard hundreds and hundreds of eye witness reports of molten metal and concrete being present at ground zero months after the attack

 

[Brak]

Don't bother. I googled for the presence of molten steel and it was so easy to find it's pretty obvious somebody's doing the ostrich thing.

 

[ManFromUncle]

I can't post u-tube sites, maybe someone will help you, although I personally think it wouldn't matter if someone dropped a hot piece of molten steel and concrete in your hand, you would quickly say prove it came from the site, and disregard hundreds and hundreds of eye witness reports of molten metal and concrete being present at ground zero months after the attack

I think everyone can be pretty much convinced this is one of the HBGary robo-trolls sent out to do disinformation, he merely keeps repeating the same thing no matter what evidence is presented. The idea is to bog down the discussion and keep it from moving forward, so let's move forward anyway. If this behavior and insult to your intelligence makes you angry, take a positive step and send an email to your congressman calling for the first steps in getting to the bottom of 911:

- call for a congressional committee to be convened to hear what Dr. Steve Pieczenik has to say under oath:

Top Insider Prepared to Testify 911 Was False Flag Attack (Inside Job)

Former Deputy Assistant Secretary of State under three different administrations Steve R. Pieczenik says he is prepared to tell a federal grand jury the name of a top general who told him directly 9/11 was a false flag attack (inside job.) Also says Bin Laden has been "on ice" literally since 2001. Pieczenik served as the Deputy Assistant Secretary of State under Nixon, Ford and Carter, while also working under Reagan and Bush senior. Former US Navy Captain. Served as a senior policy planner under Secretaries Henry Kissinger, Cyrus Vance, George Schultz and James Baker. Pieczenik graduated from Harvard Medical and an MIT PhD program concurrently before he was recruited by Lawrence Eagleburger for the State Department.


AUDIO CLIP: AUDIO CLIP: Top Insider Prepared to Testify 911 Was False Flag Attack- Steve Pieczenik | hotgrub on blip.tv

- Tell your congressman to call for the prosecution of Rudy Giuliani for the destruction of the steel evidence at Ground Zero, which does not require you to be a 911 Truther, just someone who thinks firefighters deserved to have it studied so we can build safer buildings in the future.

"911 Prosecution Plan: Start with Rudy Giuliani"

If there is one open-and-shut case it is the felony destruction of evidence by Rudy Giuliani. The shipment of 95% of the WTC steel was not only destruction of evidence, it was destruction of Exhibit A. Under the contracting authority of the City of New York, Guliani hired Metal Management Northeast of Newark, N.J., Hugo Neu Schnitzer East of Jersey City and Blandford Land Development Corporation of Brooklyn. Weeks Marine Inc. created two steel offloading areas at Pier 25 and Pier 6 in the last week of September to accelerate the shipment of the steel on barges to China to be melted. Great Lakes Dredge and Dock Co. was awarded a contract for $790,500 to deepen the Pier 6 site.

CONTACT YOUR CONGRESSMAN HERE:
Contacting the Congress: A Citizen's Congressional Directory

Dr. David Ray Griffin, "The Christian Faith and the Truth Behind 911":
Professor Emeritus of Theology, Claremont School of Theology:

If we believe that our political and military leaders are acting on the basis of policies that are diametrically opposed to the divine purposes, it is incumbent upon us to say this...

Christians have every reason to oppose the American empire. As Richard Horsley has recently emphasized, Christianity began as a movement opposed to the Roman empire. Jesus preached an “anti-imperial gospel.” And it was that gospel that led to his death. “That Jesus was crucified by the Roman governor,” says Horsley, “stands as a vivid symbol of his historical relationship with the Roman imperial order.” What some early Christians thought of this imperial order is shown, moreover, by the fact that the final book of the New Testament portrays Rome as a dragon, which symbolizes Satan.
Until recently, the fact that America has an empire could not be uttered in public, except by left-wing critics of American foreign policy. Recently, however, conservatives speak openly and with pride about our empire, with Charles Krauthammer bragging that America is “no mere international citizen” but “the dominant power in the world, more dominant than any since Rome.” -- Prof. David Ray Griffin

Prof. Griffin
David Ray Griffin "9/11: A Christian Theologian's Response"

Review of "The Christian Faith and the Truth Behind 911":

Probing disturbing questions that beg for a response from the Christian community, distinguished scholar of religion and popular writer David Ray Griffin provides a hard-hitting analysis of the official accounts of the events of September 11, 2001. A tireless investigator, Griffin has sorted through enormous amounts of government and independent data and brought to the surface some very unsettling inconsistencies about what really happened. In this, his latest book, he analyzes the evidence on 9/11 and then explores a distinctively Christian perspective on these issues, taking seriously what we know about Jesus' life, death, and teachings. Drawing a parallel between the Roman Empire of antiquity and the American Empire of today, he applies Jesus' teachings to the current political administration, and he explores how Christian churches, as a community intending to be an incarnation of the divine, can and should respond.


Click here to download a FREE study guide for individual or group use with this book.

 

[RealDealNeverstop]

I gotta say, I always thought the idea of "dis-info agent" was pretty bizarre but one poster's activities have made me second guess that, if not only for the fact every time I started a 9/11 thread he was the first or second to respond.

 

[Martingale]

...

- call for a congressional committee to be convened to hear what Dr. Steve Pieczenik has to say under oath:...

steve can say whatever he's got to say right now. no one needs a subpoena to make a statement.

a statement from an invisible witness he won't identify.

 

[oldbetang]

The Report was for NORAD intercepts. NORAD covers.....North America. That is why it is called North American Air Defense. HaahHahahaha!!! See ya!

Weak. Very very weak.

Eta: forgot to add this excerpt from the GAO Report:

"While NORAD is a joint U.S.-Canadian command, we limited our review
to U.S. air defense forces only."

So go ahead and ask for more proof the scrambles intercepts were in North America. It will only further prove to others what I've been saying.

Oh my!

Busting TFRs

There’s an ADIZ that surrounds Washington, D.C. In the four years after 9/11, it was violated over 1,000 times. The North American Aerospace Defense Command (NORAD) has scrambled fighters for intercepts within U.S. borders over 1,600 times. In the year previous to 9/11, NORAD intercepted airplanes in the ADIZ only 67 times, none of which occurred within the U.S. borders.

You were saying??

 

[oldbetang]

Don't bother. I googled for the presence of molten steel and it was so easy to find it's pretty obvious somebody's doing the ostrich thing.

WOW! You found it on the internets? Well, that settles it then. Well done.

 

[RealDealNeverstop]

Weak. Very very weak.



Oh my!

Busting TFRs

There’s an ADIZ that surrounds Washington, D.C. In the four years after 9/11, it was violated over 1,000 times. The North American Aerospace Defense Command (NORAD) has scrambled fighters for intercepts within U.S. borders over 1,600 times. In the year previous to 9/11, NORAD intercepted airplanes in the ADIZ only 67 times, none of which occurred within the U.S. borders.

You were saying??

That article has absolutely nothing to do with the GAO Report as the Report was published in 1994 and the article was written in 2005 and speaks about the year 2000. That article has absolutely nothing to do with the GAO report....but keep making embarrassing responses.

 

[MarkSB]

You are using typical disinfo procedure, ignore the biggest pieces of evidence hitting you in the face and focus on what you think you can nitpick on.

I like how my pointing out your exaggeration is "disinfo procedure," but you saying that a 5-ton piece of steel was hurled upward at 70 mph and landed 220 yards away, I'm just supposed to accept that as fact and move on. Either it happened and you have evidence of it, or it didn't happen and you are making things up.

 

[RealDealNeverstop]

I like how my pointing out your exaggeration is "disinfo procedure," but you saying that a 5-ton piece of steel was hurled upward at 70 mph and landed 220 yards away, I'm just supposed to accept that as fact and move on. Either it happened and you have evidence of it, or it didn't happen and you are making things up.

That is more than a reasonable request and I too would like to see the evidence of a five ton piece of steel being shot over 200 yards.

 

[MarkSB]

Hundreds of firefighters testified how they heard explosions in a rapid sequence down, funny how none of it made it into the 911 Commission Report.

What they heard could very well have been the building collapsing. What I said is if there were explosions you should be able to hear them in the videos which were taken of the collapse. They would make a distinct sound which you should be able to distinguish from the sound of the collapse itself.

You can see the building buckle near the impact pint because thermite charges are melting the steel in the core, like this:

Numerous civil and structural engineers have stated that it was the perimeter columns which failed first:

As a result, the core columns were slowly being crushed, sustaining plastic and creep deformation from the weight of higher floors. As the top section tried to move downward, however, the hat truss redistributed the load to the perimeter columns. Meanwhile, the perimeter columns and floors were also being weakened by the heat of the fires, and as the floors began to sag they pulled the exterior walls inwards. In the case of 2 WTC, this caused the eastern face to buckle, transferring its loads back to the failing core through the hat truss and initiating the collapse. In the case of 1 WTC, the south wall later buckled in the same way, and with similar consequences

Collapse of the World Trade Center - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Then the final demlition sequence of cutter charges and kicker charges, designed to throw the cut pieces far away so there is nothing but air for the rest to go through, so it looks like a natural free-fall.

And again, these charges cannot be heard because?

 

[socalbeach]

That is more than a reasonable request and I too would like to see the evidence of a five ton piece of steel being shot over 200 yards.

This video makes the claim of multi-ton steel sections hurled 200 yards at 60mph. David Chandler does the actual calculation in other videos, using the same physics toolkit he uses in this one. It should be easy to find.

2:22
"The horizontal speed of some of the girders has been clocked at over 70mph. Some of these girders impale themselves in the sides of neighboring buildings. Some landed as much as 2 football fields away from the base of the tower..."

and one of the video comments says,
"5. Multi-ton steel sections ejected laterally 600 ft at 60 mph."

At 5:30 into this video he has a nice application of high school physics.

youtube.com/watch?v=EgN080yySe0

 

[RealDealNeverstop]

What they heard could very well have been the building collapsing. What I said is if there were explosions you should be able to hear them in the videos which were taken of the collapse. They would make a distinct sound which you should be able to distinguish from the sound of the collapse itself.



Numerous civil and structural engineers have stated that it was the perimeter columns which failed first:



Collapse of the World Trade Center - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia




And again, these charges cannot be heard because?

Maybe you could explain why NY withheld hundreds of testimonies from first responders who reported the explosions? I mean, if we all knew what happened, what was the point?

Frankly, I wouldn't be shocked if the government came out and changed it's story to say yes, there were explosives, but it was the terrorists who planted them. They didn't realize it before due to a new breed of cutter charges that could be traced to a munitions company in Iran, or Pakistan.

Eta: the "audio on video is missing explosives" response is pretty weak. Handheld recorders pick up ambient noise more than distant ones and considering the chaos it is undrstandable it would pick up artificial explosions, and especially considering the people holding the recorders had to be at a safe distance to survive that whole twin towers collapsing thingy.

The other problem is assuming that if artificial means were used it would require them to make very loud explosive sounds. Incindiery grenades are not as loud as fragment grenades and if an artificial method was used without blaming it on terrorists then it stands to reason they would have chosen one not easily identifiable during detonation.

 

[RealDealNeverstop]

This video makes the claim of multi-ton steel sections hurled 200 yards at 60mph. David Chandler does the actual calculation in other videos, using the same physics toolkit he uses in this one. It should be easy to find.

2:22
"The horizontal speed of some of the girders has been clocked at over 70mph. Some of these girders impale themselves in the sides of neighboring buildings. Some landed as much as 2 football fields away from the base of the tower..."

and one of the video comments says,
"5. Multi-ton steel sections ejected laterally 600 ft at 60 mph."

Im too lazy to scan through an 8 min video. Is there a nice neat piece of evidence or are we supposed to calculate the weight of the beams by holding tiny pieces of rice in front of the screen?

 

[socalbeach]

Im too lazy to scan through an 8 min video. Is there a nice neat piece of evidence or are we supposed to calculate the weight of the beams by holding tiny pieces of rice in front of the screen?

Here you go, you only have to listen to 17 secs of the video, although to get the horizontal ejection speed you would need to know the height the beam was ejected from. In any event this isn't what I would use to try to convince someone the 3 bldgs were destroyed by explosives, there is much stronger evidence.

0:00
"Girders from the North Tower of the WTC weighing about 4 tons each were found in the Winter Garden 600 ft away after the towers collapsed..."

youtube.com/watch?v=aUKLOlIhang

 

[MarkSB]

Interesting video. I have an Excel spreadsheet set up for projectile motion, and got almost the exact same results. I guessed the maximum height to be about 1200 ft., since the towers are approximately 1380 feet high. At that height, to land 600 feet from the base of the tower, the initial horizontal speed would have to be about 47.5 mph (neglecting air resistance, of course).

My original point still stands - if there were explosions of that magnitude you would have to hear them in one of the numerous videos which were taken of the collapse. I really don't see any way around it.

 

[thegospelisgoodnews]

Interesting video. I have an Excel spreadsheet set up for projectile motion, and got almost the exact same results. I guessed the maximum height to be about 1200 ft., since the towers are approximately 1380 feet high. At that height, to land 600 feet from the base of the tower, the initial horizontal speed would have to be about 47.5 mph (neglecting air resistance, of course).

Even still, I stand by my original point - if there were explosions of that magnitude you would have to hear them in one of the numerous videos which were taken of the collapse. I really don't see any way around it.

So eye witnesses don't account for anything.....I don't know why we keep responding to folks that simply ignore the people who were actually there at ground zero, how do you explain the explosions in buiding 7 long before it collapsed. another conspiracy witness making false reports on 911? think of all the fireman the truthers had to pay off to make up their stories

 

[MarkSB]

So eye witnesses don't account for anything.....I don't know why we keep responding to folks that simply ignore the people who were actually there at ground zero, how do you explain the explosions in buiding 7 long before it collapsed. another conspiracy witness making false reports on 911? think of all the fireman the truthers had to pay off to make up their stories

It's not to say that eyewitnesses don't count for anything, its just that their observations should be verifiable. What one witness calls an explosion, another witness may not - so looking at the video provides a more objective approach. If there were explosions, you should be able to hear them. Is that flawed logic?

 

[RealDealNeverstop]

Here you go, you only have to listen to 17 secs of the video, although to get the horizontal ejection speed you would need to know the height the beam was ejected from. In any event this isn't what I would use to try to convince someone the 3 bldgs were destroyed by explosives, there is much stronger evidence.

0:00
"Girders from the North Tower of the WTC weighing about 4 tons each were found in the Winter Garden 600 ft away after the towers collapsed..."

The problem with his claim is the entrance to the Winter Garden is only about 350 feet away from the NT. Considering the amount of debris that came down it is not hard to understand how girders went down a waterfall of material that put them 300 or even 400 feet away from the Tower. Here is a pic of the Winter Garden and you can easily see the pile of debris at the entrance while most of the Garden was still in tact.

doujibar.ganriki.net/english/e-wtc1_others/wintergarden5.jpg

So it is entirely possible girders were found in the WG because they landed on debris and flipped farther away from the Tower than if they were ejected with a clear line of sight towards the ground. Another problem is the WG was constructed of steel girders so we should expect to see them there.

Not only is this a weak argument to prove artificial means, but it should never be used at all.

 

[RealDealNeverstop]

Interesting video. I have an Excel spreadsheet set up for projectile motion, and got almost the exact same results. I guessed the maximum height to be about 1200 ft., since the towers are approximately 1380 feet high. At that height, to land 600 feet from the base of the tower, the initial horizontal speed would have to be about 47.5 mph (neglecting air resistance, of course).

My original point still stands - if there were explosions of that magnitude you would have to hear them in one of the numerous videos which were taken of the collapse. I really don't see any way around it.

Since there were numerous videos could you provide three with the distance from the towers of each one?

There is another crucial point of consideration: Zoom. Most recorders have the option of zooming in the visual recording but the sound does not zoom in with it. In order for your claim to be supported you need to provide two facts:

Minimum decibel rating for the cutting agent.

Exact distance of video recorders from the Towers.

For examples of my point watch videos of the collapses and pay close attention to sound. (Also do it with your eyes closed) What I noticed is people standing right by the recorders can be heard over the sound of the collapse itself.