Christians for 9/11 Truth

[Martingale]

The sound of an explosion is nothing in itself. However, that is not the contention on this issue as several people reported explosions that were just like the kind you hear when buildings are brought down. Im not saying those testimonies alone prove devices were used but they are a piece of evidence that cannot be ignored.

because the witnesses were somehow familiar with "just the kind of explosives you hear when buildings are brought down"?

what kind of total nonsense is that?

 

[RealDealNeverstop]

True, but I'm going off the assumption that the explosions should be louder than the collapse, and since the collapse can be heard in several of the videos, the explosions should be easy to hear as well.

I'm no explosives expert, but from the videos I've seen of buildings being demo'ed, the C4 charges were loud, as one would expect. Although in the videos I've seen, they were set off together and not in sequence:



Information on these seems difficult to dig up, maybe I'll have another go at it tomorrow. Intuitively, I would think that demo charges would be easy to hear, whether set off in sequence or not.

Another point I would like to make is on the references which have been made to "exploding concrete." Concrete is not a ductile material, and it does shatter/blow out sideways under a compressive load:


And remember, this concrete was crushed with a progressively increasing static load. Now just imagine the force of a whole building coming down on it.

That Wachovia demo was a perfect illustration of the ambient noise I was highlighting. Notice the lack of emergency vehicles and basic screaming chaos compared to the morning of 9/11. You could barely hear the explosions going off but more importantly, the voices of the observers standing next to the camera completely drowned out the noise of the collapse itself. Even though we had a clear and accurate visual the auditory was negated by ambient noise. It was also pretty clear they used a zoom lens.

If it was a false flag and explosives were used, why not blame AQ for those as well? It is mainly because it would have been too hard to follow up on. We know the hijackers could not have done it by the FBI Reports that tracked their movements inside the US so it would have had to have been another group of terrorists. How could you prove to the American public they planted bombs? If it was a false flag then they screwed up because the buildings came down to fast after the planes hit. Thermal expansion from fires is nothing new but in order for it to cause a collapse it requires a certain amount of temperatures over a certain period of time. The static load alone for the Towers was insufficent to explain the colapse so they cited expansion.

For WTC 7 the culprit was fire but this was a new theory on thermal expansion because before 9/11 it was conventional wisdom the temperatures had to be hundreds of degrees higher than what was present at 7. Not to mention the bunker on the 23rd floor.

So basically, I don't know what in the hell to think about the Towers. Both sides are failing to prove their claims.

 

[RealDealNeverstop]

because the witnesses were somehow familiar with "just the kind of explosives you hear when buildings are brought down"?

what kind of total nonsense is that?

You're right. The only witnesses capable of hearing explosions that sound just like a professional demo are those who have owned a demo company who inhereited it from their grandfather's grandfather and only eat with sticks of dynamite.

 

[RealDealNeverstop]

I'm aware of the firefighters for truth group. I'm not very impressed with them. Now, you show me a 9/11 firefighters for truth and then you'd have something. But you can't do that because there aren't any 9/11 firefighters who are truthers.

There are not 118 firefighters from 9/11 who support the explosive hypothesis. You've been suckered into believing otherwise by the likes of David Ray Griffin and other high and mighty prevaricators. Why don't you try thinking for yourself for change? Try actually reading the testimonies of the firefighters yourself.

When I first read the claim there are no 9/11 firefighters who are truthers I got upset at the blatant dishonesty. Then immediately calmed down because I realized it is pure desperation to say such an obvious falsehood meant only to sucker people into pyrrhic victories.

 

[thegospelisgoodnews]

When I had my house fire there was two small explosions...but no explosive devices were used. Explain please, then, how explosions MUST mean explosive devices...

Well thats amazing!.....did you have any aerosol cans in your house, such as deodorant, disinfectant, bug spray there are thousands of items that can explode in a house fire.......let me ask you was your whole house consumed in the fire or did you have a kitchen fire and do to structural failure your whole house simultaneously fell into your basement, and form a pool of molten metal that took weeks to put out, Oh! and did your neighbors house collapes as a result of your fire too?

 

[RealDealNeverstop]

Well thats amazing!.....did you have any aerosol cans in your house, such as deodorant, disinfectant, bug spray there are thousands of items that can explode in a house fire.......let me ask you was your whole house consumed in the fire or did you have a kitchen fire and do to structural failure your whole house simultaneously fell into your basement, and form a pool of molten metal that took weeks to put out, Oh! and did your neighbors house collapes as a result of your fire too?

If you want people to heed evidence artificial means was used to bring down the Towers, I suggest re-visiting this post as to how NOT to do that.

 

[Supreme]

When I first read the claim there are no 9/11 firefighters who are truthers I got upset at the blatant dishonesty. Then immediately calmed down because I realized it is pure desperation to say such an obvious falsehood meant only to sucker people into pyrrhic victories.

A minority of firefighters are 'truthers'. And even then, being a firefighter does NOT mean you are not susceptible to conspiracy theories.

 

[RealDealNeverstop]

A minority of firefighters are 'truthers'. And even then, being a firefighter does NOT mean you are not susceptible to conspiracy theories.

He claimed there were no 9/11 firefighters that are truthers. The main difference between OCTAs and Truthers is Truthers openly criticize each other whereas your camp is scared to death to call each other out even when false claims are made. Im not saying it never happens but Haley's Comet seems a more frequent event.


It is also important to highlight the Truther Closet that has been created by demonizing anyone who dares question the OCT. I have no doubt there are more people in official capacities who quietly question the OCT but lay in the cut due to being stigmatized and having careers put in jeapordy.

 

[ManFromUncle]

A minority of firefighters are 'truthers'. And even then, being a firefighter does NOT mean you are not susceptible to conspiracy theories.

Here the website for Firefighters for 911 Truth, who are circulating a petition to the US Congress for a new investigation. They should add that they want to hear what Dr. Pieczenik has to say under oath.

Below that is a video of firefighter Erik Lawyer calling for a new investigation. If these firefighters are tin-foilers, they are tin-foilers who risk their lives for us daily.

This is from their statement on the home page by Lt. Vodvarka, served on FDNY Ladder Co 26, Rescue Co. 3, Rescue Co. 1, Engine Co. 92, Ladder 82 and Ladder 101. He was awarded the Merit Class 1 award, the Prentice Medal.

Fellow Firefighters, A great tragedy befell our community on September 11, 2001, an unprecedented 343 deaths in the line of duty. As horrible as that toll is, if there were a rational explanation for it, we could accept it and mourn. We all understood the risk we accepted when we took the oath of office, that chance might cut short our lives when we placed ourselves in harm’s way in the public’s service. This is what we are paid for and it is our honor. However, in short, the official explanation of the events of that day are not only insufficient, they are fantastic and cannot bear rational examination.

Fire fighter Erik Lawyer:
YouTube - ‪FireFighter Erik Lawyer Slams NIST And The 9/11 "Investigation"‬‏

 

[Martingale]

You're right. The only witnesses capable of hearing explosions that sound just like a professional demo are those who have owned a demo company who inhereited it from their grandfather's grandfather and only eat with sticks of dynamite.

thanks, we agree I'm right.

the witnesses reporting explosions probably never heard demolition charges or what a collapsing steel structure sounds like before, and therefore can't tell the difference.

 

[thegospelisgoodnews]

If you want people to heed evidence artificial means was used to bring down the Towers, I suggest re-visiting this post as to how NOT to do that.

Actually at this point I am not trying to get anyone to "heed evidence" I'm sure the Apostles were a bit frustrated at Thomas also especially after eight days had passed, witness after witness of trust worthy people had come forward, and still he wouldn't believe. And the most crazy thing about Thomas's unbelief was that he was a witness to all the miracles Jesus had done.......In the same way How many credible witnesses have come forward, as Christians we must be aware that satan has people in high places working toward fulfiling his agenda of a one world government, if you don't believe that God is allowing satan to fulfil the destiny of his own demise what can I tell you. If people knew more about demonic possession they would understand, a person couldn't (spill the beans) even if he wanted to. If I had more time I could explain better but many christians have the false idea that someone possessed by a demon would be a foaming at the mouth crazy person. certianly that can happen when many demons have taken residence in one human vessel, but I assure you there are many high functioning demon possessed people. truth be known many if not most have no idea they are possessed after an evil spirit has entered them. Thats what makes them hard find. even Judas had satan himself inside him and He greeted the Lord with a kiss, and betrayed Jesus, It was only after satan had left him did he become remorseful, and killed himself. Yet there he was filled with the demonic spirit of satan, and talking and working on a plot or "conspiracy" with high priest and captains to betray the Lord. (none of them knew they were dealing with a demon possessed man) I can garantee almost everyone has seen a possessed person and didn't even reconize it.

 

[RealDealNeverstop]

Actually at this point I am not trying to get anyone to "heed evidence" I'm sure the Apostles were a bit frustrated at Thomas also especially after eight days had passed, witness after witness of trust worthy people had come forward, and still he wouldn't believe. And the most crazy thing about Thomas's unbelief was that he was a witness to all the miracles Jesus had done.......In the same way How many credible witnesses have come forward, as Christians we must be aware that satan has people in high places working toward fulfiling his agenda of a one world government, if you don't believe that God is allowing satan to fulfil the destiny of his own demise what can I tell you. If people knew more about demonic possession they would understand, a person couldn't (spill the beans) even if he wanted to. If I had more time I could explain better but many christians have the false idea that someone possessed by a demon would be a foaming at the mouth crazy person. certianly that can happen when many demons have taken residence in one human vessel, but I assure you there are many high functioning demon possessed people. truth be known many if not most have no idea they are possessed after an evil spirit has entered them. Thats what makes them hard find. even Judas had satan himself inside him and He greeted the Lord with a kiss, and betrayed Jesus, It was only after satan had left him did he become remorseful, and killed himself. Yet there he was filled with the demonic spirit of satan, and talking and working on a plot or "conspiracy" with high priest and captains to betray the Lord. (none of them knew they were dealing with a demon possessed man) I can garantee almost everyone has seen a possessed person and didn't even reconize it.

Jesus preached a one government world and blaming satan for people's actions is antithetical to basic grounding for personal responsibility.

 

[thegospelisgoodnews]

Jesus preached a one government world and blaming satan for people's actions is antithetical to basic grounding for personal responsibility.

Yeah! He did but were talking about night and day differences in Kingdoms. And as for satan entering Judas you either believe the bible or you don't, possibly you don't understand whats involved in getting demon possessed so as to understand no personal responsiblity is lost.

 

[Martingale]

Jesus preached a one government world and blaming satan for people's actions is antithetical to basic grounding for personal responsibility.

my expertise with various explosives tells me I just heard a ladyfinger.

 

[thegospelisgoodnews]

my expertise with various explosives tells me I just heard a ladyfinger.

had one of those go off in my hand once, don't let the size fool ya it stung for quite awhile!

 

[ManFromUncle]

thanks, we agree I'm right.

the witnesses reporting explosions probably never heard demolition charges or what a collapsing steel structure sounds like before, and therefore can't tell the difference.

The explosions were heard throughout the morning, not just when the buildings came down. Probably systematic weakening of the strong points in the structure before the final demolition sequence. This is what the firefighters were hearing, in the following video. 'Just boilers and stuff' going according to the government. RIGHT! ...turn up the volume so you can hear it real good:

YouTube - ‪Explosions on 911‬‏

And here is firefighter Schroeder who was inside Tower One describing explosions long before the collapse, and the core and stairwells disintegrating. Does not believe official story:

YouTube - ‪HIGHLIGHTS : Interview with John Schroeder 911 FIREMAN‬‏


Here the website for Firefighters for 911 Truth, who are circulating a petition to the US Congress for a new investigation. They should add that they want to hear what Dr. Pieczenik has to say under oath.

Below that is a video of firefighter Erik Lawyer calling for a new investigation. If these firefighters are tin-foilers, they are tin-foilers who risk their lives for us daily.

This is from their statement on the home page by Lt. Vodvarka, served on FDNY Ladder Co 26, Rescue Co. 3, Rescue Co. 1, Engine Co. 92, Ladder 82 and Ladder 101. He was awarded the Merit Class 1 award, the Prentice Medal.

Fellow Firefighters, A great tragedy befell our community on September 11, 2001, an unprecedented 343 deaths in the line of duty. As horrible as that toll is, if there were a rational explanation for it, we could accept it and mourn. We all understood the risk we accepted when we took the oath of office, that chance might cut short our lives when we placed ourselves in harm’s way in the public’s service. This is what we are paid for and it is our honor. However, in short, the official explanation of the events of that day are not only insufficient, they are fantastic and cannot bear rational examination.

Fire fighter Erik Lawyer:
YouTube - ‪FireFighter Erik Lawyer Slams NIST And The 9/11 "Investigation"‬‏

 

[RealDealNeverstop]

Yeah! He did but were talking about night and day differences in Kingdoms. And as for satan entering Judas you either believe the bible or you don't, possibly you don't understand whats involved in getting demon possessed so as to understand no personal responsiblity is lost.

Jesus and the earliest Christians actually fought against the method of blaming possession for individual acts of evil. But that discussion for someplace else.

 

[Martingale]

The explosions were heard throughout the morning, not just when the buildings came down. ...

I definitely heard a squib this time.

 

[Thirst_For_Knowledge]

This has over 100 pages. I didn't read any of them. I simply wanted to say that being a Christian doesn't make you any less nutty when you are a truther. "Christians for 9/11 Truth" seems like people trying to give their conspiracy ideas relevance by equating them with a popular religion.

 

[circa02]

So you've judged this entire thread without reading any of it? How does that work?